Islam: Sex slave?

[planten]

Those verses don’t mention monotheism. They condemn fornication and being married to more than one spouse.

Obviously, if a Bishop is only allowed ONE wife, those who are being instructed by the Bishop would also.

** I doubt that. If the bishop is allowed only one wife that is good enough for him because normally we see nearly all are unmarried fathers in the church system.

Anyhow, there is no real teaching about one wife. Take the example of Jesus who should be a model. he did not marry at all. Also paul did not marry. I see that there is nothing in the bible about monogmy or polygamy, about divorce, about Jesus saying that he was God.

It is only very vague statements from which the meanings are being deduced. I am sorry. There is nothing explicit about those things in the bible.**

 

[planten]

You do not understand the words you are using. The Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) were all written after Jesus’ time on the Earth (from what I was told in RCIA, about 60-100 AD). They are testimonies of Jesus’ life, crucifixion, and ressurection, so logically they could not have been completed until after these events had happened, e.g. after Jesus’ time on Earth.

And don’t even start with the idea that this somehow makes them invalid, because if they are invalid by being written in the time-period in which they were, then the Qur’an is CERTAINLY invalid by virtue of its having been written hundreds of years after Jesus’ time on Earth, and I know you don’t believe that!

**I have no problem with the gospel of mathew, mark, luke and John. But I wish that there was any gospel of Jesus too. But we forget that. What you have written about bible NT is correct and I have no doubt or objection to those books. They are a descriptive of Jesus life, being a biography of Jesus. So they are helpful.

What you said about Quran is wrong. Quran was being recited loudly in public during the five daily prayers every where by all Muslims, all day, week, month and year. People remembered it by heart. The prophet had made sure that Quran should be written as soon as revealed.

So it was present all the time.Later on it only had to be compiled and brought out in a good shape. That was done within few years. Work had been started very soon.

I never say that bible is invalid. If we call it invalid then we do not have anything at all.
**

 

[Contrabass101]

Yes, I was sure that you cannot ignore your book and try to be smarter, inventing your own religion. That is not allowed. It is not right that your real book be quiet on a subject and you try to be an advocate for it. For the purpose of discussion, you have to remain within the scope of your best authentic books. That you people do not do.

Bibliolatry is not Catholicism.

Unlike in your religion, Our God did not simply write a book with guidelines on how to live. He came down here and planted a Church, which then went on to write the books of the New Testament. The content of the Catholic faith is to be found by reading the Bible as it has infallibly been interpreted by the Catholic Church, and by listening to the oral tradition of the Church. You cannot read the Bible in a vacuum.

And your still dodging: Islam explicitly sanctions polygamy and even allows for “right hand possesions”. Do you deny this?

• CB

 

[Angelos]

** I doubt that. If the bishop is allowed only one wife that is good enough for him because normally we see nearly all are unmarried fathers in the church system.**

Planten, all your responses are eventually doomed to irrelevance and digression. It is high time you found another way of evading our questions and critiques about your religion.

**
Anyhow, there is no real teaching about one wife. Take the example of Jesus who should be a model. he did not marry at all. Also paul did not marry. I see that there is nothing** in the bible about monogmy or polygamy, about divorce, about Jesus saying that he was God.

Someone must have fooled you about Jesus’ being our role model with regard to marriage. Nothing in the NT commands Christ’s followers to imitate Jesus or Paul by NOT marrying. You are making up stories and dogmas as usual.

How can you say that there is nothing in the NT about monogamy or divorce whilst we have quoted many verses on this issue over and over??? Your denial of certain facts will not make those facts disappear. Wake up!

**
It is only very vague statements from which the meanings are being deduced. I am sorry. There is nothing explicit about those things in the bible.**

Just a minute ago you said there was NOTHING in the NT about monogamy and divorce, but now you are saying that there EXIST some vague statements. You are a man of contradictions. LOL Please make up your mind (rather than false stories) before debating here!

 

[Angelos]

Yes, I was sure that you cannot ignore your book and try to be smarter, inventing your own religion. That is not allowed. It is not right that your real book be quiet on a subject and you try to be an advocate for it. For the purpose of discussion, you have to remain within the scope of your best authentic books. That you people do not do.

Read these lines to yourself in the mirror please! LOL

You yourself are writing a dissertation paper on a short and vague Koran verse denying Jesus’ passion. None of your remarks can be found in your book.

BTW, I am still expecting you to quote the verse where Jesus supposedly asks His disciples to pray FOR HIM in the garden. If you cannot support your allegations, please admit that you have deliberately perverted the Bible and apologise.

 

[dzheremi]

I have no problem with the gospel of mathew, mark, luke and John. But I wish that there was any gospel of Jesus too. But we forget that. What you have written about bible NT is correct and I have no doubt or objection to those books. They are a descriptive of Jesus life, being a biography of Jesus. So they are helpful.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of the word “Gospel”. The Gospels are the books of the Bible we’ve mentioned that tell the story of the life, teachings, death, and resurrection of Jesus. So asking for a “Gospel of Jesus” makes no sense, since all of the Gospels already are about Jesus.

What you said about Quran is wrong. Quran was being recited loudly in public during the five daily prayers every where by all Muslims, all day, week, month and year. People remembered it by heart. The prophet had made sure that Quran should be written as soon as revealed.

I never said you did, I just wanted to pre-empt that possible answer, as I have encountered it before from Muslims who claim that the Bible is invalid because it was compiled after Jesus’ death (the idea being how can we be sure any of what is in it is true since it was not compiled as quickly as the Qur’an). Apologies if I seemed to imply that you hold a position that you do not in fact hold.

 

[planten]

Bibliolatry is not Catholicism.

Unlike in your religion, Our God did not simply write a book with guidelines on how to live. He came down here and planted a Church, which then went on to write the books of the New Testament. The content of the Catholic faith is to be found by reading the Bible as it has infallibly been interpreted by the Catholic Church, and by listening to the oral tradition of the Church. You cannot read the Bible in a vacuum.

And your still dodging: Islam explicitly sanctions polygamy and even allows for “right hand possesions”. Do you deny this?

• CB

** I do not deny polygamy in Islam and do not deny the slave girls. But that was a long time ago when the children of jacob were trappped as slaves in Egypt. I do not remember them any more.

Thanks for admitting that you do not have any revealed book. You have brought down the status of the bible quite a lot that it is the work of men. But you have told the truth. Because that is what it is.

When we muslims challenge the christians about their book, they say that it was written by inspiration. Well that is a great step below revelation. Revelation is the real thing and it is from above. Inspiration is not from above.It is from the inside of a person, not from God or an angel.

Please do not mind what I am writing. The Quran is a completely revealed book. And I do not agree to you or any other christian that the bible or good news was the work of men. That was also truely a revealed matter given to Jesus, same as the Quran.

Where that is now, i do not know and where that original bible is gone, I do not know. Yet what we have of the bible is about Jesus and that is very useful. Quran endorses it with reservations. We believe that Jesus was a true prophet of God. You do that too. But you take it a step further that he was God. We do not believe that.

And so it goes on and on and on…**.

 

[inJESUS]

** I do not deny polygamy in Islam and do not deny the slave girls. But that was a long time ago when the children of jacob were trappped as slaves in Egypt. I do not remember them any more.**

what does Jacob have to do with sex slaves in Islam, the subject of this thread?

When we muslims challenge the christians about their book, they say that it was written by inspiration. Well that is a great step below revelation. Revelation is the real thing and it is from above. Inspiration is not from above.It is from the inside of a person, not from God or an angel.

 

[planten]

Read these lines to yourself in the mirror please! LOL

You yourself are writing a dissertation paper on a short and vague Koran verse denying Jesus’ passion. None of your remarks can be found in your book.

BTW, I am still expecting you to quote the verse where Jesus supposedly asks His disciples to pray FOR HIM in the garden. If you cannot support your allegations, please admit that you have deliberately perverted the Bible and apologise.

**Angelos, you being a new christian, should know more about bible NT than me. Next you will deny that Jesus prayed in the garden before his arrest. You will deny that he requested his God to pass away the cup (which of course he did not like). In the same passages, angelos, you will find that Jesus after praying, came to see his disciples and they were all sleeping. He had asked them to pray. But they were found sleeping again.

I guess I cannot debate with you if you become illogical or unreasonable. Now please go and find that passage in the bible where Jesus told his disciples to keep awake and pray, in the garden, before his arrest. And also tell me, when he was god, why he was praying and to whom?**

 

[Angelos]

Angelos, you being a new christian, should know more about bible NT than me. Next you will deny that Jesus prayed in the garden before his arrest. You will deny that he requested his God to pass away the cup (which of course he did not like). In the same passages, angelos, you will find that Jesus after praying, came to see his disciples and they were all sleeping. He had asked them to pray. But they were found sleeping again.

You are a man of fantasies and false presumptions. The only thing I am trying to do is to prove that you are deliberately perverting my scripture for the sake of your innovated theories.

I do not deny the fact that Jesus prayed in the garden and asked His disciples to pray so as NOT TO BE TEMPTED by Satan. However, this is not the same as asserting that Jesus asked His disciples to pray FOR HIM. No matter how many times I read the account of Jesus’ agony, I can never see there your supposition that Jesus asked His disciples to pray FOR HIM!!!

You claim what is NOT in the text, which is not compatible with the notions of reliability and honesty.

**
I guess I cannot debate with you if you become illogical or unreasonable. Now please go and find that passage in the bible where Jesus told his disciples to keep awake and pray, in the garden, before his arrest. And also tell me, when he was god, why he was praying and to whom?**

I shall not answer your question attacking Jesus’ divinity due to a few reasons. First, that question of yours arises from your deliberate ignorance of the basic Christian tenet concerning Jesus’ divine personality and human nature. Second, that question has already been answered by many people so far. Third, that question is irrelevant to your personal aims to pervert the account of Jesus’ agony in the garden before his arrest.

I can debate with you although you insist on putting forward your boring theories and allegations that are constantly debunked by many posters here. Nonetheless, this should not let you think that I can debate with people that make vain efforts to insert their false comments into my original scripture and get away with it. Highlighting dishonesty is one of my principles.

Peace

 

[Angelos]

**

Thanks for admitting that you do not have any revealed book. You have brought down the status of the bible quite a lot that it is the work of men. But you have told the truth. Because that is what it is…**.

We do not have any revealed book.We do not need revelation or dictation to communicate with God and receive His truth.

Muslims do not have a revealed book either even though they can never acknowledge this fact. The notion of revelation is an innovated theory about God’s message to mankind and it exists only in Islam because it was thought by Mohammad as the only way of authorising his false teachings and wishful thinking. It also enabled Mohammad to manipulate the so-called divine truth.

**
When we muslims challenge the christians about their book, they say that it was written by inspiration. Well that is a great step below revelation. Revelation is the real thing and it is from above. Inspiration is not from above.It is from the inside of a person, not from God or an angel.**.

This is a ridiculous and ignorant approach to the concept of inspiration. In Islam Mohammad’s personal teachings and allegations are presented under the name revelation. Whatever is claimed to be directly revealed from above is not necessarily and essentially a revelation from above. The source of inspiration is also God. The Koran, however, is neither a revelation nor a product of inspiration. The only term I use to define the Koran is fabrication.

**
Please do not mind what I am writing. The Quran is a completely revealed book. And I do not agree to you or any other christian that the bible or good news was the work of men. That was also truely a revealed matter given to Jesus, same as the Quran.**.

The Koran is partly fabrication, partly adaptation from Jewish and Christian stories/legends/myths, and partly the perversion of certain Biblical narratives.

Your Koran does not know where that revealed Gospel is or what happened to it

**
Where that is now, i do not know and where that original bible is gone, I do not know. Yet what we have of the bible is about Jesus and that is very useful. Quran endorses it with reservations. We believe that Jesus was a true prophet of God. You do that too. But you take it a step further that he was God. We do not believe that.

And so it goes on and on and on…**.

Keep looking for that supposedly revealed Gospel. I suggest consulting your god, Mohammad, and angels because you will definitely need help to find a book that has never existed in history LOL Good luck, dear planten

 

[Contrabass101]

I do not deny polygamy in Islam and do not deny the slave girls. But that was a long time ago when the children of jacob were trappped as slaves in Egypt. I do not remember them any more.

Do you deny that Islam explicitly sanctions polygamous marriage and the owning of “right hand possesions”? Was this sanction ever overturned by later revelations?

Thanks for admitting that you do not have any revealed book. You have brought down the status of the bible quite a lot that it is the work of men. But you have told the truth. Because that is what it is.

On the contrary. The Bible is the Word of God, but in quite a different sense than what Moslems believe about the Quran. The Bible is inspired (not dictated) but it is not in itself God’s final revelation to the world - Christ is!

Well that is a great step below revelation. Revelation is the real thing and it is from above. Inspiration is not from above.It is from the inside of a person, not from God or an angel.

Not quite right. I see why you might come to think it otherwise, because it is closely connected with the Christian belief in the Incarnation, which you do not believe.

Just as Christ (God’s living Word) was both fully human and fully divine at the same time - one person yet two natures, so the Bible (God’s written Word) is written both fully by man and fully by God at the same time without compromise. It is in-spired: God breathed - written by men filled guided by the Holy Spirit without coercion and yet without error. Fully human and fully divine. Like Christ.

Please do not mind what I am writing. The Quran is a completely revealed book. And I do not agree to you or any other christian that the bible or good news was the work of men. That was also truely a revealed matter given to Jesus, same as the Quran.

Indeed, the Gospel is a revelation. Revealed by the Holy Spirit, through the apostles. As it is written “from his breast shall flow fountains of living water”. That is spoken about the Holy Spirit that came upon the disciples, so that they might do the will of the Father and preach His Word. Then the Gospels of the Bible and teachings of the apostles are streams of living water. And they show us Christ - and Christ shows us the Father.

He became Man, Planten.

He became Man for you…

God doesn’t want glory for himself. He already has all the glory that is possible. Why would he want more? How could he get more? We can do nothing to increase or decrease God’s glory - if we could, God would depend on us. Do you believe God depends on us, Planten? Of course not!

Then what is the purpose of religion? What is the purpose of revealing His will to us?

God being all powerful wants us to become parttakers in his glory. He didn’t “hold divinity as a thing to be exploited” but took upon himself human flesh. He took upon himself human nature that we might receive from him divine and perfect nature.

He is not a jealous and selfish King that wants all the glory for himself. He is a loving Father that wants to share everything with us. A father is not diminished when his child is succesful - neither is God being disgraced when we become parttakers in his glory.

Where that is now, i do not know and where that original bible is gone, I do not know. Yet what we have of the bible is about Jesus and that is very useful. Quran endorses it with reservations. We believe that Jesus was a true prophet of God. You do that too. But you take it a step further that he was God. We do not believe that.

No, you do not believe that.

Because the way you picture God, He would never do such a thing. It’s undignified.

He wouldn’t stoop to that. It’s unworthy of his nature

He wouldn’t become Man to save anyone.

He would stay on his lonely throne, highly exalted above everyone else. Dignified. Jealous. Looking with a grim smile on his worshippers as they mindlessly bow down to His Almighty Will. He might forgive - but His forgiveness is as cold as his punishment.

He would never love as a Father. He would never give himself.

• CB

 

[dolphinlove]

**Angelos, you being a new christian, should know more about bible NT than me. Next you will deny that Jesus prayed in the garden before his arrest. You will deny that he requested his God to pass away the cup (which of course he did not like). In the same passages, angelos, you will find that Jesus after praying, came to see his disciples and they were all sleeping. He had asked them to pray. But they were found sleeping again.

I guess I cannot debate with you if you become illogical or unreasonable. Now please go and find that passage in the bible where Jesus told his disciples to keep awake and pray, in the garden, before his arrest. And also tell me, when he was god, why he was praying and to whom?**

Planten,
Some friendly advice…
You are not really gaining any brownie points around here with your ‘accusations’. Before you write a response, i would check the source and make sure what you are writing is actually correct.
Some of your theories about the bible is comical.
The ‘stories’ and ‘fabrications’ i read on here from you are just mind boggling.
why not start by actually responding to people instead of going on a tangent and accusing us of some other false allegations?
It might actually help your credibility out a bit.
Good luck:thumbsup:

 

[CTA1967]

And returning to the original topic - about Islam?

 

[Ghoti]

**
Thanks for admitting that you do not have any revealed book. You have brought down the status of the bible quite a lot that it is the work of men. But you have told the truth. Because that is what it is.

When we muslims challenge the christians about their book, they say that it was written by inspiration. Well that is a great step below revelation. Revelation is the real thing and it is from above. Inspiration is not from above.It is from the inside of a person, not from God or an angel.

Please do not mind what I am writing. The Quran is a completely revealed book.** And I do not agree to you or any other christian that the bible or good news was the work of men. That was also truely a revealed matter given to Jesus, same as the Quran.

.

Says you…

No offense, but I do not believe the Qu’ran to be the revealed word of God. I believe it to be strictly the work of one man.

 

[planten]

Planten, all your responses are eventually doomed to irrelevance and digression. It is high time you found another way of evading our questions and critiques about your religion.

You had no reply to my arguments. So you have passed it off as a very difficult job.

Someone must have fooled you about Jesus’ being our role model with regard to marriage. Nothing in the NT commands Christ’s followers to imitate Jesus or Paul by NOT marrying. You are making up stories and dogmas as usual.

Why is he not a role model. He is called a teacher too. Then why should not be an example for all christians while he was a mere man on earth? You want to disown him and run away from him. So do that.But do not use his name then.

How can you say that there is nothing in the NT about monogamy or divorce whilst we have quoted many verses on this issue over and over??? Your denial of certain facts will not make those facts disappear. Wake up!

** If there was anything then you would have posted it now. There is infact nothing clearly stated in the bible.**

Just a minute ago you said there was NOTHING in the NT about monogamy and divorce, but now you are saying that there EXIST some vague statements. You are a man of contradictions. LOL Please make up your mind (rather than false stories) before debating here!

That is right.There are a few vague things written in the bible. I do not deny them. But they are far and few and mean nothing at all. They are not clear on the subject of marriage or divorce or anything. bible is very brief,just a few words of Jesus are there.

 

[planten]

Says you…

No offense, but I do not believe the Qu’ran to be the revealed word of God. I believe it to be strictly the work of one man.

**That is your opinion. You can have your opinion. bible is the work of many men. That is also bad. Too many cooks. Nobody dictated to the scribes.

That one man is Muhammad. But there is angel too who revealed the great book in 23 years. Not a walk and talk show of three years only by Jesus. No offence. But Quran is very much here with all of us and nobody claims to have authored it. Is it not surprising that a book is here and nobody claims it? Just wonder please and be reasonable.
If you have never seen the Quran then please get hold of one now and try to read it. It is a real letter for you from Your God Almighty.**

 

[Angelos]

Why is he not a role model. He is called a teacher too. Then why should not be an example for all christians while he was a mere man on earth? You want to disown him and run away from him. So do that.But do not use his name then.

Now that you are pathetically out of arguments, you have finally resorted to twisting my words after perverting the Koran and the Bible for the sake of your presumptions.

I do not deny that Jesus is our teacher. He is our Lord and master. However, this does not mean that we are supposed to imitate Him in every respect including marital status. Jesus could speak Hebrew and Aramaic perfectly well. I do not think we are obliged to speak these two languages as well as Jesus solely because Jesus is our teacher and role model. LOL

If there was anything then you would have posted it now. There is infact nothing clearly stated in the bible.

Why should I post the references over and over whilst I see that many posters have done so here to no avail??? Why do you need ME to post the same biblical references? Do you really believe that my personal citations will authorise the NT?

That is right.There are a few vague things written in the bible. I do not deny them. But they are far and few and mean nothing at all. They are not clear on the subject of marriage or divorce or anything. bible is very brief,just a few words of Jesus are there

You are still changing your theories. LOL If those references make no meaning to you, I guess you should worry about it. The problem is not in the text or the way it is quoted, but only in your deliberate denial of facts.

 

[Ghoti]

**

That one man is Muhammad. But there is angel too who revealed the great book in 23 years.** Not a walk and talk show of three years only by Jesus. No offence. But Quran is very much here with all of us and nobody claims to have authored it. Is it not surprising that a book is here and nobody claims it? Just wonder please and be reasonable.
If you have never seen the Quran then please get hold of one now and try to read it. It is a real letter for you from Your God Almighty.

Again, says you.

I have no more interest in the Qu’ran than I do in the Book of Mormon, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, or Dianetics.

I don’t understand what you mean by “But Quran is very much here with all of us and nobody claims to have authored it. Is it not surprising that a book is here and nobody claims it?”

Nobody needs to “claim” it. Muhammad claims it was given to him by God. I claim it came from Muhammad’s own head.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

These are not real words of any bible (gospel). They seem to be additional stuff which was written (added) long after Jesus had departed. Also see the words “Let every man have his own wife…” A man who has two wives, each one is his wife. So can he have them one byone. He will be with his wife.he willbe having his wife and none else.
IT IS NOT WRITTEN "LET EVERY MAN HAVE HIS ONLY ONE ****WIFE"

The real matter being discussed in the above verses is chastity not monotheism. It is a lesson against fornication.That is all.

Actually they were written before the Gospels, about thirty years after Christ ascended, which would make it about the same time span that transpired before your prophet’s companions (according to your own traditions, there is evidence it was later) put the Quran together.