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Hospitaller
Guest
In what amounted to a very slow, subtle persecution, very much like the Nazis of the Jews, minus the concentration camps.
Some of your co-religionists would seem to say so.
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Joe_Monahan
Guest
I don’t like the title of this thread, as it invites a type of posting that leads to problems. The charity level here is on a dangerous slope and I am very close to taking action with respect to it - let’s not push it, folks.
Joe
Joe
M
meedo
Guest
Excuse me but you mix your own words with your sources . Please provide the link of what you say .
Again and again. The arabs in audi arabia are not FORCED to become muslims. If they want to worship their idols then they can leave saudi arabia .If they want to stay in saudi arabis then they have to be muslims. This is for saudi arabia only . Why do u think the 4 month period was made then?!!! I guess if i want to trap people i woudl enforce the law right away huh?! SoThe rule no compulsion in faith applies to arabs also . It is not about their race . Its about the geography . saudi arabia is the Land of Islam . There should not be any religion beside islam in that place . Simple.
Now i am sorry but i dont think that the people you mentioned above would say " By hook or by crook" !!!
The consensus among scholars of Islam is that Poltax levied if a non muslim wants to keep his faith . Weather christian or Jews or Not .
Now muslims pay zakat , why shouldnt other people in teh state pay tehir tax also ?!!!
Again and again. The arabs in audi arabia are not FORCED to become muslims. If they want to worship their idols then they can leave saudi arabia .If they want to stay in saudi arabis then they have to be muslims. This is for saudi arabia only . Why do u think the 4 month period was made then?!!! I guess if i want to trap people i woudl enforce the law right away huh?! SoThe rule no compulsion in faith applies to arabs also . It is not about their race . Its about the geography . saudi arabia is the Land of Islam . There should not be any religion beside islam in that place . Simple.
Now i am sorry but i dont think that the people you mentioned above would say " By hook or by crook" !!!
The consensus among scholars of Islam is that Poltax levied if a non muslim wants to keep his faith . Weather christian or Jews or Not .
Now muslims pay zakat , why shouldnt other people in teh state pay tehir tax also ?!!!
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Contarini
Guest
That’s kind of like saying that baby carrots are very much like chocolate cake, only without the chocolate and flour.
Edwin
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Contarini
Guest
Well it ought to, because you should have some worries about perpetuating 19th-century Protestant xenophobia.
That’s not what I was disputing. Actually you didn’t prove that either–you only proved that one fourteenth-century figure gave that as the primary meaning. I’m not going to tell Muslims that they have to agree with that figure, or even with the consensus of their own tradition. It’s their religion. Clearly there’s been a strand of Muslim thought that emphasizes the internal struggle against evil as the “greater jihad,” and as a non-Muslim I applaud this.
But this isn’t what we were arguing about. The part of the Adams quote I’m challenging is the claim that jihad must be waged against all who deny that Muhammad is the Prophet. My understanding of Islamic tradition is that opinions differ, but that the general consensus historically was that jihad was not obligatory unless Islam was threatened, but that extending the rule of shari’a was always in principle a good thing to do.
You have omitted part of your quote, so I don’t know what the antecedent of “they are not a people of the Book” is. That’s rather important, don’t you think? I gather that probably the reference is to “idol worshippers.” As it stands, the first part of your quote does not make sense. Your use of ellipses to omit key information borders on dishonesty, because you seem to be trying to give the impression that the antecedent of “they” is “all other people,” and that “all other people” refer to all non-Muslims. If that isn’t what the whole passage says, you are guilty of seriously distorting your source.
The only part of your quote that is coherent is the Hanafi school’s opinion, which flatly contradicts Adams’s quote. Even idol worshippers are allowed to live in peace under Islamic rule if they pay the poll tax. Clearly paying the poll tax does not constitute an admission that Muhammad is the Prophet. Therefore, by your own chosen witness your signature quotation is thoroughly inaccurate.
Back the quote up, and I’ll retract it. As long as it appears that you have deliberately chosen an erroneous and inflammatory statement as your signature, I see no reason to retract my accusation. But your highly questionable use of your source material hardly gives me a reason to do so.
Edwin
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H2O
Guest
The greatest threat to our civilization is Satan and his demons NOT Islam.
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Faith101
Guest
:clapping:
i think this whole thread is pretty pathetic, by the way. And it just makes some of the people’s intentions on this board seem pretty clear…its sad…but hey…hell is there for a reason
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mjdonnelly
Guest
Same thing that Hitler said.
How is not forced upon them when they want to live in an area they think is beautiful? You’re playing word games here.
Again done by the Nazis, making people register if not in accordance with the national faith.
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A.Pelliccio
Guest
False doctrine, war, opression, is Satan and his demons at work . . .
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meedo
Guest
Just make more babies Chrisytian friends. The muslim guys just wanna live . Nobody is targeting you or somthing . Chill really . Threat and no threat and all this stuff is really big talk that makes my head hurt . I am tired of politics lol.
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Faith101
Guest
not according to 1/5th of the world’s population
only under dire circumstances
there is not a religion on this earth that gives people more rights than Islam. Even ANIMALS have rights…oh my…even the trees have rights.
. .
satan’s job is to divert people from the worship of one God. He has the hindus directing their worship to statues as a from of intercession. He has some people worshipping a man as god, some people worshipping women…and some worshiping themselves, their money, their power…
There is no diety worthy of worship but God alone…and I am proud to be among those who call themselves Muslim.
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exoflare
Guest
Why is this worth mentioning?
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Desert_Father
Guest
Frankly, we Christians are ourselves the greatest threat to our civilization. When our civilization is not truely governed by our faith, we create opportunities for the powers of this world to prosper. Islam has no power against the truth of the Gospel, it has no power at all, but does it encounter the Gospel in us, or does it encounter worldlyness? Does the third world encounter the Living God in us, or does it encounter corpret exploitation? Do people in our own lands convert because they truely see the holy in Islam, or because they are sick of Sunday Christians, who practice unbridled free market pilfering of the less powerful the rest of the week? I once asked a Black woman why she converted and accepted all the restrictons on women. She answered very honestly:“Have you seen the other options?” What could I say? Live what is true, and falshood will wither away. Don’t worry about Islam. It is no more than the shadow in the middle of the night that terrorizes the young child, but vanishes in the light. :bible1:
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Hospitaller
Guest
If you have a corrected quote, by all means, share it with us.
You might be interested in a few more quotations I dug up over the past week.
“Do not take the Jews and Christians for friends”
(Surah 5:51)
“fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness”
(Surah 9:123)
“fight those who do not believe in Allah”
(Surah 9:29)
“and fight them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah”
(Surah 8:39)
“fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace”
(Surah 9:14)
“Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them”
(Surah 9:30)
“I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
(Surah 8:12)
C
Contarini
Guest
Why should anyone take any of your quotations seriously, given your demonstrated penchant for taking quotations out of context and asserting that they mean what they do not mean?
Edwin
Edwin
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Joseph_Alison
Guest
Salaam Brother Contarini;
Thank you for responding to our friend Hospitaller. I am a Muslim; Arabic is my mother tongue, I read the Qur’an in its original language, I know Assbab A’nuzul (the reasons for revelation) of the quotations our Friend Hospitaller brought up. I can testify to the truthfulness of your above reply.
Salaam.
Joseph.
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Hospitaller
Guest
What exactly do you suppose they mean, since I seem to be so woefully misinformed as to the correct interpretation of them?
Really, I’d be most interested to hear your explanation.
Let’s hear it then.
C
Contarini
Guest
Clarification: I’m speaking of Hospitaller’s use of quotations in my previous exchange with him. My point is that since he has not been able to support his interpretation of the quotations he cited earlier, his tactics do not deserve credibility.
It remains astounding to me that Catholics use these methods against others, when they know how viciously these same methods are used against them. I guess this is just human nature.
There are legitimate reasons for us Christians to be very concerned about Islamic teaching on jihad, and to hope that more moderate interpretations of that teaching become dominant within Islam. But telling members of another religion what they “really” believe is always misguided!
Edwin
It remains astounding to me that Catholics use these methods against others, when they know how viciously these same methods are used against them. I guess this is just human nature.
There are legitimate reasons for us Christians to be very concerned about Islamic teaching on jihad, and to hope that more moderate interpretations of that teaching become dominant within Islam. But telling members of another religion what they “really” believe is always misguided!
Edwin
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Joseph_Alison
Guest
Sorry Brother Edwin, my mistake. I was misled by you answer, thinking you were responding to our Friend Hospitaller about the quotations he picked up from the Qur’an.
Salaam.
Joseph.
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Hospitaller
Guest
So you were apparently *not *citing my latest grouping of quotations as being misinterpreted, or out of context?
The issue at stake here is not what Meedo, or anyone else like him believes, but how Islam has been interpreted by the mass of its adherents and continues to be so.
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