Islam to be rewritten

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Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts

Turkey is preparing to publish a document that represents a revolutionary reinterpretation of Islam - …
The country’s powerful Department of Religious Affairs has commissioned a team of theologians at Ankara University to carry out a fundamental revision of the Hadith, the second most sacred text in Islam after the Koran.

The Hadith is a collection of thousands of sayings reputed to come from the Prophet Muhammad.

As such, it is the principal guide for Muslims in interpreting the Koran and the source of the vast majority of Islamic law, or Sharia.

But the Turkish state has come to see the Hadith as having an often negative influence on a society it is in a hurry to modernise, and believes it responsible for obscuring the original values of Islam.

It says that a significant number of the sayings were never uttered by Muhammad, and even some that were need now to be reinterpreted.

‘Reformation’

… Some messages ban women from travelling without their husband’s permission… But this isn’t a religious ban. It came about because it simply wasn’t safe for a woman to travel alone

…The forensic examination of the Hadiths has taken place in Ankara University’s School of Theology.

An adviser to the project, Felix Koerner, says some of the sayings - also known individually as “hadiths” - can be shown to have been invented hundreds of years after the Prophet Muhammad died, to serve the purposes of contemporary society.

“Unfortunately you can even justify through alleged hadiths, the Muslim - or pseudo-Muslim - practice of female genital mutilation,” he says.

“You can find messages which say ‘that is what the Prophet ordered us to do’. But you can show historically how they came into being, as influences from other cultures, that were then projected onto Islamic tradition.”

…The argument is that Islamic tradition has been gradually hijacked by various - often conservative - cultures, seeking to use the religion for various forms of social control.

Leaders of the Hadith project say successive generations have embellished the text, attributing their political aims to the Prophet Muhammad himself.

Revolutionary

Turkey is intent on sweeping away that “cultural baggage” and returning to a form of Islam it claims accords with its original values and those of the Prophet.

But this is where the revolutionary nature of the work becomes apparent. Even some sayings accepted as being genuinely spoken by Muhammad have been altered and reinterpreted.

Prof Mehmet Gormez, a senior official in the Department of Religious Affairs and an expert on the Hadith, gives a telling example.

"There are some messages that ban women from travelling for three days or more without their husband’s permission and they are genuine.

“But this isn’t a religious ban. It came about because in the Prophet’s time it simply wasn’t safe for a woman to travel alone like that. But as time has passed, people have made permanent what was only supposed to be a temporary ban for safety reasons.”

The project justifies such bold interference in the 1,400-year-old content of the Hadith by rigorous academic research.

Prof Gormez points out that in another speech, the Prophet said “he longed for the day when a woman might travel long distances alone”.

So, he argues, it is clear what the Prophet’s goal was.

Original spirit

Yet, until now, the ban has remained in the text, and helps to restrict the free movement of some Muslim women to this day.

There’s also violence against women within families, including sexual harassment… This does not exist in Islam… we have to explain that to them
Hulya Koc, a “vaize”

As part of its aggressive programme of renewal, Turkey has given theological training to 450 women, and appointed them as senior imams called “vaizes”.

They have been given the task of explaining the original spirit of Islam to remote communities in Turkey’s vast interior.

…nShe says that, at the moment, Islam is being widely used to justify the violent suppression of women.

“There are honour killings,” she explains.

"We hear that some women are being killed when they marry the wrong person or run away with someone they love.

“There’s also violence against women within families, including sexual harassment by uncles and others. This does not exist in Islam… we have to explain that to them.”

‘New Islam’

According to Fadi Hakura, an expert on Turkey from Chatham House in London, Turkey is doing nothing less than recreating Islam - changing it from a religion whose rules must be obeyed, to one designed to serve the needs of people in a modern secular democracy.

He says that to achieve it, the state is fashioning a new Islam.

“This is kind of akin to the Christian Reformation,” he says.

"Not exactly the same, but if you think, it’s changing the theological foundations of [the] religion. "

Fadi Hakura believes that until now secularist Turkey has been intent on creating a new politics for Islam.

Now, he says, “they are trying to fashion a new Islam.”

Significantly, the “Ankara School” of theologians working on the new Hadith have been using Western critical techniques and philosophy.

They have also taken an even bolder step - rejecting a long-established rule of Muslim scholars that later (and often more conservative) texts override earlier ones.

“You have to see them as a whole,” says Fadi Hakura.

"You can’t say, for example, that the verses of violence override the verses of peace. This is used a lot in the Middle East, this kind of ideology.

“I cannot impress enough how fundamental [this change] is.”

Story from BBC NEWS:
news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm
 
Well, let me ask you this…

Is it possible for the ruler of some country, let’s say Nicaragua, to say, We don’t like Catholicism this way, so we’re going to change it. Will the Catholic Church accept that? Of course not.

In the same way, Islam as a religion has been preserved as a way of life for 1400 years despite the attempts of many people to change it. Turkey is trying… futile. It is not up to men to change the religion of God.
 
Well, let me ask you this…

Is it possible for the ruler of some country, let’s say Nicaragua, to say, We don’t like Catholicism this way, so we’re going to change it. Will the Catholic Church accept that? Of course not.

In the same way, Islam as a religion has been preserved as a way of life for 1400 years despite the attempts of many people to change it. Turkey is trying… futile. It is not up to men to change the religion of God.
How about a Caliphate could he change it?
Wasnt the last from Turkey?
 
Well, let me ask you this…

Is it possible for the ruler of some country, let’s say Nicaragua, to say, We don’t like Catholicism this way, so we’re going to change it. Will the Catholic Church accept that? Of course not.

In the same way, Islam as a religion has been preserved as a way of life for 1400 years despite the attempts of many people to change it. Turkey is trying… futile. It is not up to men to change the religion of God.
Hadith is opinions of man, not the Quran.
 
How about a Caliphate could he change it?
Wasnt the last from Turkey?
A “caliph,” you mean. And the answer is: (drumroll…) no. He couldn’t. Islam has sources–the Qur’an and the Sunnah/Hadith. They can’t be changed. Shari’ah is based on these sources and scholars. It isn’t possible for someone to say, prayers are 3 times a day now instead of 5. Glorified is God–the people know Islam, and they know that whoever says that is wrong, and they will be rejected. 🙂

The last empire claiming to be a caliphate was the Ottoman Empire. They picked the wrong side in WW1 and are no more!
 
Hadith is opinions of man, not the Quran.
A “hadith” is a narration of Muhammad. He was given revelation, and inspiration, and taught the people Islam. It doesn’t make sense Islamically to reject the Messenger.
 
Well, there is something to be said about putting an end to female circumcision and getting rid of the corrupting texts that are known to be forgeries. The part that I can’t wait to see is how the Turks are treated by other Muslims. Granted, they don’t care and will gladly repay violence with violence, but remmember that Turkey was at one time the leader in the Islamic world.
 
Female “circumcision” (which is, in fact FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION) is not an Islamic practice and needs to be condemned worldwide.
 
Female “circumcision” (which is, in fact FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION) is not an Islamic practice and needs to be condemned worldwide.
You know this and I know this, but for some reason, the countries that have it defend it quoting Islam. It is disgusting.
 
Is this a good thing?
Dear Hisalone,

Any religion is the message from God to human, on how we, human, should live under the will of God. The teaching of any religion, of course, is “somehow” summarized in the respective holy books. Each of the holy books, as matter of fact, was written long time ago, much of the influence of the cultural, educational, and common knowledge existed at the time such holy book was written.

Given so much advances in the cultural, educational, and knowledge including technology of human being at this current century, off course, any holybook should not be interpreted based on this current century situation. One must go deep and understand the circumstances surrounding the situation and condition during which a holybook was written. After that, then one can take the moral teachings out of that holybook. Those moral teachings, I am sure are applicable into our modern standard.

For example. It was written in the Quran that Muhammad married a 9-years-old girl. During Muhammad age, it may be an acceptable practice among the society. However, in our modern standard, I don’t think that we can interpret that marrying a 9-years-old girl is permitted. Even in the Islamic states, I believe no adult man ever marry a 9-years-old girl. We, off course, cannot and should not accuse Muhammad as a pedophile either because it means that we are applying our modern standard of living against the ancient live of Muhammad.

Secondly, in the OT, we read that Sarah gave one of her female servant to sleep with Abraham. In our modern culture, such practice is no longer acceptable. So, no one can interpret that a man can sleep with his female employee.

Any reinterpretation of any holybook is acceptable, as long as the moral teachings existed in such holybook are not twisted/altered. But, such reinterpretation must be done in the most careful way supported by many religious experts and done in the most responsible way. In this case, I dare to give the example of the Vatican II Council which was done practically in our modern culture.
 
It was written in the Quran that Muhammad married a 9-years-old girl.
Hi

It is simply not mentioned in Quran that “It was written in the Quran that Muhammad married a 9-years-old girl”.

Thanks however for your good arguments.
 
A “hadith” is a narration of Muhammad. He was given revelation, and inspiration, and taught the people Islam. It doesn’t make sense Islamically to reject the Messenger.
Should we reject this:

Tabari VIII:178
Ishaq:550 “Muhammad ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka’aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa’d [the Qur’an’s one and only scribe]. The reason that Allah’s Messenger ordered that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur’an Revelation. Then he apostatized [rejected Islam].”
Well I guess we should kill apostates since that is what Muhammed would do.

Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Arbitrary killing of people? Is that permitted in islam?

Tabari VII:97
Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.’”

***This unfortunate fellow committed the crime of writing a poem mocking Mo. ***

Tabari VIII:179
Ishaq:550 “Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his… His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa’id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her.”

Ishaq:551 “Another victim was Huwayrith. He used to insult Muhammad in Mecca. Huwayrith was put to death by Ali. The Messenger ordered Miqyas’ assassination only because he had killed an Ansar who had killed his brother by mistake and then became a renegade by rejecting Islam.”

Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”

Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”

Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’”

Muslim:C9B1N31 “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought.”

Tabari VI:139 “Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse ‘And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.’”

Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
 
Hi

It is simply not mentioned in Quran that “It was written in the Quran that Muhammad married a 9-years-old girl”.

Thanks however for your good arguments.
It is actually based on a series of hadiths which are accepted by the 4 major schools of islamic jurisprudence. They actually say that he married her when she was 6. The marriage was consummated when she was 9. This is the major reason for the prevalence of child marriage in the muslim world.

Just like the hadith and sharia law calling for the killing of apostates is the reason for honor killings in the muslim world. The women are seen to have dishonored their families and there for have lost their muslim religion. Muhammed said people who have lost their religion should be killed.
 
A “hadith” is a narration of Muhammad. He was given revelation, and inspiration, and taught the people Islam. It doesn’t make sense Islamically to reject the Messenger.
Some sound like the ramblings of a madman. That’s why not all Hadith are accepted by all Muslims.
 
How do you feel about the Inquisition?
You are making a logical fallacy called tu quoque. This is often done by muslims to justify the violence committed in the name if islam. It is also used by teenagers when they want to do something their parents won’t let them do (“But Mom, Johnny’s parents let him stay out late!”). Just because Johnny does it does not mean it is right.

As for the inquisition. Did you know the amount of people killed equaled to about 12 people per year. I think Texas executes more people than this. It was also a program of the Spanish state that was trying to root out people trying to over throw the state (i.e. the muslims who originally violently invaded Spain and were eventually driven out.) It was actually the Pope who was trying to curb the spanish state.
 
You are making a logical fallacy called tu quoque. This is often done by muslims to justify the violence committed in the name if islam. It is also used by teenagers when they want to do something their parents won’t let them do (“But Mom, Johnny’s parents let him stay out late!”). Just because Johnny does it does not mean it is right.

As for the inquisition. Did you know the amount of people killed equaled to about 12 people per year. I think Texas executes more people than this. It was also a program of the Spanish state that was trying to root out people trying to over throw the state (i.e. the muslims who originally violently invaded Spain and were eventually driven out.) It was actually the Pope who was trying to curb the spanish state.
There was a man who had two sons. The older son tormented his little brother so the father gave the older son a whipping and the younger son his whip to protect himself against his older brother. When the older brother tormented him again the younger son whipped him so hard the older brother finally left him alone.

But then the younger son found that he liked his new whip and the power it gave him, so he went around whipping many other children who did nothing at all to him and were also much smaller than he was.

So the father took his whip away and gave it to his older brother who resumed tormenting his younger brother many times more because he misused the whip his father gave him to protect himself.

The end.
 
Some sound like the ramblings of a madman. That’s why not all Hadith are accepted by all Muslims.
If a hadith is weak that is one thing, but if it is sound and sahih, you can not reject the sunnah. That is a very grave and serious offense and is worse than being a fasiq. Ahadith are not opinions.

The Quran, from Allah subhana wa ta’ala, says:

**“And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (PBUH)) gives you, take it; and
whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)”. (59:7)

"Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. It is only a Revelation that is
revealed.’’ (53:3,4)

“Say (O Muhammad (PBUH) to mankind): `If you (really) love Allah then
follow me (i.e., accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur’an and the
Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins”. (3:31)

"Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad (PBUH)) you have a good example
to follow for him who hopes for (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last
Day…’’ (33:21)

“But no, by your Rubb, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O
Muhammad (PBUH)) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves
no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full
submission”. (4:65)

“(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and
His Messenger (PBUH)”. (4:59)

"He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad (PBUH)), has indeed obeyed Allah.’’
(4:80)

"And verily, you (O Muhammad (PBUH)) are indeed guiding (mankind) to the
Straight Path (i.e., Allah’s Deen of Islamic Monotheism):. (42:52)

"And let those who oppose the Messenger’s (Muhammad (PBUH)) commandment
(i.e., his Sunnah – legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements)
(among the sects), beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials,
afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant) should befall
them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.’’ (24:63)

And remember (O you the members of the Prophet’s family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and Al-*Hikmah (i.e. Prophet’s Sunnah legal ways, etc. so give your thanks to Allâh and glorify His Praises for this Qur’an and the Sunnah). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well *Acquainted with all things. (33:34)

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, “Do not ask me unnecessarily about the details of the things which I do not mention to you. Verily, the people before you were doomed because they were used to putting many questions to their Prophets and had differences about their Prophets. Refrain from what I forbid you and do what I command you to the best of your ability and capacity”. [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]**
 
In the same way, Islam as a religion has been preserved as a way of life for 1400 years despite the attempts of many people to change it. Turkey is trying… futile. It is not up to men to change the religion of God.
The Saudi view of Islam, is that whats been preserved for 1400 years?
 
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