Islam vs Christianity/Catholicism

[Lea101]

So I have this Muslim friend, she’s lovely and all.

But we were chatting the other day and she mentioned that Islam treats women better than we do, basically.

I don’t know how to defend my faith here because I’m kind of struggling with certain teachings here
But I do know that Christianity is better in terms of its view on women?

Muslims here can obviously state their opinions
No bashing of faiths here though!

 

[Kaninchen]

but she insists that it’s culture, not religion.

Strange how little effect the beliefs of Islam would seem to have on the cultures where it, religiously, dominates then, isn’t it?

 

[adamhovey1988]

So I have this Muslim friend, she’s lovely and all.

But we were chatting the other day and she mentioned that Islam treats women better than we do, basically.

I don’t know how to defend my faith here because I’m kind of struggling with certain teachings here
But I do know that Christianity is better in terms of its view on women?

Muslims here can obviously state their opinions
No bashing of faiths here though!

Obviously it depends on the Muslim, and I have seen abusive Muslim men, BUT, I have also seen a Muslim friend of mine that had a physically abusive ex wife. Ephesians 5:25 says husbands are supposed to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. I’d talk about that verse. I don’t want to say “Islam teaches” in certain discussions, because much like Christianity, there isn’t a single type of Islam. I think you do well to ask both Christians and Muslims (which I see you are doing), but there’s my answer as a Christian.

 

[Reuben_J]

So I have this Muslim friend, she’s lovely and all.

But we were chatting the other day and she mentioned that Islam treats women better than we do, basically.

I don’t know how to defend my faith here because I’m kind of struggling with certain teachings here
But I do know that Christianity is better in terms of its view on women?

Muslims here can obviously state their opinions
No bashing of faiths here though!

As in great many things, often it is subjective.

What is your benchmark to say it is better or worse?

It depends on what a person prefer, the Islam version or the Christian version of how women are looked upon or treated.

There are non-Muslims who find that women are treated better in Islam. There are Christian women who look for Muslim men to get married to because they preferred to be treated in the ‘Islamic way’.

So it is really subjective.

Perhaps if we are up to it, to argue it from the scriptural/doctrinal point of view because in there, a dividing line between what is right and wrong may be better delineated. But then again, it still depends on who is talking, a Christian or a Muslim.

 

[Lea101]

My benchmark is perhaps the amount of freedom women have (whether they are more restricted than men) and the basic-what the religion thinks of women.

Both the Qur’an and the Bible have shocking verses about women, but people always say that it has to be interpreted a certain way.

So it’s rather difficult for me you see, because ex muslims and ex catholics are biased (because they have something against the people in their religion/they misinterpreted their texts) and current muslims and catholics like to sugarcoat things to try to evangelize, I guess.

There are always bad muslims and christians but I’m talking about the teachings itself?

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

You started off saying:

No bashing of faiths here though!

Then you accuse Catholics of sugarcoating. OK I take the bait, please tell us how Catholics sugarcoat for purposes of evangelizing. If you are going to make such an accusation at least explain the reasoning behind it.

 

[jediliz]

well, the woman held in highest regard in Catholic Christianity is the one that gave birth to Christ himself.

Women aren’t restricted from getting drivers licenses (Saudi Arabia) and most aren’t required to submit to an arranged marriage (I am excluding the way the Duggar family creates marriages here). Unless they belong to a cultish church, they are allowed to go to college and get an education. Modestly is expected, but nothing like a burqa or hijab (the mantilla that women wear to Latin Mass is not required all day long)

These are just a few ways I can say Christianity treats women a little better, but it probably depends on the “flavor”.

 

[Lea101]

You started off saying:

Then you accuse Catholics of sugarcoating. OK I take the bait, please tell us how Catholics sugarcoat for purposes of evangelizing. If you are going to make such an accusation at least explain the reasoning behind it.

Still not bashing. There are Catholics who sugarcoat things-be it teachings of homosexuality or abortions or other controversial topics so people will like the religion be it for evangelizing or simply being accepted in some circles. There’s people like that from all religions. Don’t be too sensitive, lol.

If you really want an example however, it could be when I was asking about a bible verse about submitting to husbands in everything, and a person told me that we don’t have to listen to that, it’s based on culture blah blah or stuff like “he has to submit to you in the same way!”

Why would I bash my own religion?

 

[Reuben_J]

My benchmark is perhaps the amount of freedom women have (whether they are more restricted than men) and the basic-what the religion thinks of women.

Both the Qur’an and the Bible have shocking verses about women, but people always say that it has to be interpreted a certain way.

So it’s rather difficult for me you see, because ex muslims and ex catholics are biased (because they have something against the people in their religion/they misinterpreted their texts) and current muslims and catholics like to sugarcoat things to try to evangelize, I guess.

There are always bad muslims and christians but I’m talking about the teachings itself?

Okay, fair enough. I hope you see it is important to qualify your OP.

So it is about freedom of women. At least you narrow it somewhat.

Obviously as a Catholic I am not Muslim, they can speak for themselves, but from my experience discussing with them, they would not want to discuss on that premise (freedom of women). That’s the difficulty, even before you start the discussion.

They would point to you that freedom without religious restriction would result in an immoral violent world that would encroach into God’s commandments. Number two, they would argue, there is no such thing as total freedom, be it for men or women, simply because God’s commandment would not allow it.

As for referring to the Quran, I would say, the biggest weakness in its teaching is that women are not equal to men, in many practical ways. That can be your strong points, I guess. And the husband practically owns her wife, up to the extent that he is commanded to beat her, to lie to her, if it is necessary for him to do so.

I do not think Christianity has an equivalent teaching to that.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

I find that quite laughable. Her testimony in an Islamic legal proceeding is valued somewhere between that of 0 and 0.5 men. Whom did our Lord first appear unto after his Resurrection?

 

[Della]

Still not bashing. There are Catholics who sugarcoat things-be it teachings of homosexuality or abortions or other controversial topics so people will like the religion be it for evangelizing or simply being accepted in some circles. There’s people like that from all religions. Don’t be too sensitive, lol.

If you really want an example however, it could be when I was asking about a bible verse about submitting to husbands in everything, and a person told me that we don’t have to listen to that, it’s based on culture blah blah or stuff like “he has to submit to you in the same way!”

Why would I bash my own religion?

No one has to sugar-coat the Church’s teachings about women who isn’t first getting it wrong.

Nowhere does the Bible say that women have to “submit to their husbands in everything.” Just how would that work?–when women do/decide plenty of things without passing it by their husbands first. It’s not about submitting to an employer who is watching every move for faults. It’s about recognizing the husband’s ultimate authority, as Christ recognized the Father’s ultimate authority over him, and husbands submitting themselves to their families in sacrificial love as Christ did for the Church. See? Not one sugar-coated word needed to explain anything about women’s positions to their husband’s.

 

[Micosil]

… and current muslims and catholics like to sugarcoat things to try to evangelize, I guess.

There’s a difference between sugarcoating something, and “speaking the truth in love” (Ephesians 4:15).

 

[Saburo]

But we were chatting the other day and she mentioned that Islam treats women better than we do, basically.
!

Yes, the stoning of rape victims by Catholics is so much more brutal and frequent than the stoning of rape victims by Muslims. Or perhaps it’s the gentle way that Muslims blow up innocent women as compared to the stinging knuckle rapping that female students sometimes receive at the hands of eighty year old nuns. I see her point. She is rock solid and not willfully in denial at all. .

 

[WJeffrey]

Catholics do not impose a legal system on their followers. They leave that up to the will of individual countries.

Islam calls for Muslims to live under Sharia Law. Muslims work to change legal systems so that Sharia is the law of the land.

Sharia Law treats women horribly by the standards of Western Civilization. When Catholics try force sovereign nations to adopt standards where a woman must have four male witnesses to prove rape, maybe she might have a leg to stand on. Perhaps, laws like the one where throwing lesbians off tall buildings might further the discussion.

Sharia Law is the key.

At least, that is my understanding of Islam. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[ltwin]

So I have this Muslim friend, she’s lovely and all.

But we were chatting the other day and she mentioned that Islam treats women better than we do, basically.

I don’t know how to defend my faith here because I’m kind of struggling with certain teachings here
But I do know that Christianity is better in terms of its view on women?

Muslims here can obviously state their opinions
No bashing of faiths here though!

I think maybe you should ask your friend to first define her idea of “better treatment.” What does she think treating women better looks like? Is it the way Boko Haram treats women or something else?

She may have a completely different idea of what the ideal woman’s life is compared to your own idea of what that might look like.

 

[thephilosopher6]

So I have this Muslim friend, she’s lovely and all.

But we were chatting the other day and she mentioned that Islam treats women better than we do, basically.

I don’t know how to defend my faith here because I’m kind of struggling with certain teachings here
But I do know that Christianity is better in terms of its view on women?

Muslims here can obviously state their opinions
No bashing of faiths here though!

Hmm… I think your friend doesn’t know about Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Pakistan.

 

[Sarcelle]

well, the woman held in highest regard in Catholic Christianity is the one that gave birth to Christ himself.

Women aren’t restricted from getting drivers licenses (Saudi Arabia) and most aren’t required to submit to an arranged marriage (I am excluding the way the Duggar family creates marriages here). Unless they belong to a cultish church, they are allowed to go to college and get an education. Modestly is expected, but nothing like a burqa or hijab (the mantilla that women wear to Latin Mass is not required all day long)

These are just a few ways I can say Christianity treats women a little better, but it probably depends on the “flavor”.

If we restrict ourselves to Catholics vs. Muslim, I agree with you. Women’s dignity is seen and acknowledged by the Catholic Church. I can’t say the same about Islam.

At least adult women are not seen as perpetual minors by the Catholic Church.

 

[Lea101]

She claims that Islam gave women rights (women being allowed to own property, work, study etc) while in the west, women had no rights, and there were catholics/christians who believed that women had no souls.

Idk how to argue that because women in Europe/wherever were oppressed until the first wave of feminism?

 

[Micosil]

She claims that Islam gave women rights (women being allowed to own property, work, study etc) while in the west, women had no rights, and there were catholics/christians who believed that women had no souls.

Idk how to argue that because women in Europe/wherever were oppressed until the first wave of feminism?

These are all very far-fetched claims from her. Can you ask her to reproduce the historical evidence? Because I actually discussed this issue once with a friend, who is an atheist and a professional historian (he has a Ph.D in Classics), and he told me that it was Christianity that actually elevated the status of women in that society and time.

Please, Catholics have so many dedications, Novenas, Rosaries, etc. to the Mother of God, who was a woman – how can anyone in their right mind say that Catholics believed women had no souls???

 

[Lea101]

These are all very far-fetched claims from her. Can you ask her to reproduce the historical evidence? Because I actually discussed this issue once with a friend, who is an atheist and a professional historian (he has a Ph.D in Classics), and he told me that it was Christianity that actually elevated the status of women in that society and time.

Please, Catholics have so many dedications, Novenas, Rosaries, etc. to the Mother of God, who was a woman – how can anyone in their right mind say that Catholics believed women had no souls???

There are verses in their holy texts that says women should have some rights, I believe. I’m not denying that women in that area were treated badly before islam and islam did help them out, but not that much?

And I believe that women were treated way better after Jesus came along/early Christianity. But then in Europe, women were taught to be more stupid than men, they couldn’t vote, etc. And most of these people are Christians. And some people in the Church tried to insist that women had no souls, but the pope shot that down, I believe. You can get the evidence from google, of course

The 72 hoors/virgins men will have in heaven (if you don’t know about it, men in heaven will have sex with them as a reward and the virgins are described to have fair skin and other features that I don’t think it’s wise to say it here. Women don’t get any men besides their husbands)

Isn’t that objectifying women? Apparently not, she claims, because muslim women will be higher than those virgins, and she will look more attractive.

So confusing.