Islam

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henrikhank

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Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?
 
I would take Christ’s advice and judge by the fruits. Pretty obvious to me.
 
Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?
Why assume that there is a monolithic thing called “Islam” in the first place?

“Islam” is just an umbrella term covering the beliefs and practices of a lot of people over a long period of time.

The only reason to treat Islam as a unified thing would be if you think it is divinely revealed. (Or, I suppose, if you think it is a monolithic thing inspired by Satan, though I think that way of thinking is too Manichean.) I don’t think it’s divinely revealed, so I have no reason to adopt this way of thinking about it and no need to judge it on the whole as “evil” or “good.”

I certainly find it the least appealing of the major world religions, but it has many good elements in it. Even the staunchest anti-Muslim must admit this–after all, much of Islam derives directly from Judaism and Christianity.

Edwin
 
Yes, saying ‘Islam’ is like saying ‘Christianity’- it’s little more than an umbrella covering a wide variety of different time periods, differing methods of interpretation and differing methods of practicing the religion. It differs between countries, generations and periods in history.

To my mind, Islam is neither completely innocent nor is it completely evil as it’s seen by many Christians and indeed by many in the West. It has some incredible people who really do highlight the best in their religious thought, but at the same time there are also those who are not-so-good examples of Islamic extremism, intolerance and hatred.

Kouyedit: Major thing with the Qur’an is that there are peaceful verses and more belligerent ones. Although in theory the practice of abrogation exists, where later verses ‘replace’ earlier ones that contradict, you can still pretty much pick-and-choose what you wish to suit.
 
Islam is good 😃

Now, are there “bad parts” to Islam? The people, culture, and practice - sure. Looking over the last 2,000 years of Christianity, there are some awful parts as well. In fact, ALL religions have violent, warlike pasts - Jews have their Kahanists, Christians have their Ku Klux Klan and Inquisition, Hindus have their terror-bombing nationalists…there was even a book on Buddhist violence published a couple years ago that showed a monk with a pistol on its cover and documented centuries of violence. So yes, out of any group of 1.6 billion people (Islam) you will find some bad.

However, you will also find tremendous good. Muslims are intensely community-oriented, intensely religious, and try to lead very moral lives. We pray five times a day, attend masjid (mosque) once a week, and fast from dawn to dusk for 30 days each year. We give to the poor, are commanded to love our fellow man, and abstain from intoxicants, fornication, abortion, pornography, and profanity.

It’s worth pointing out that Jesus is viewed as the second-greatest prophet in Islam and we revere him. Mary is viewed as the greatest woman in Islam. Moses is mentioned more than any other man in the Quran. Abraham, Noah, David - they are all very familiar to us. We pray to the same God you do - as the Catholic Church acknowledged in Vatican II. Obviously, we do have differences in theology, but we have much in common. Indeed, theologically, Islam is closest to Judaism.

I would say that all of the five great religions of the world (Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism) and most (if not all) of the minor ones are forces for good.
 
I find Islam is actually good, because I have my Muslim friends who are really respectful of my beliefs as a Catholic. Atleast they don’t question my faith in God as One, of course we differ in what constitutes as God.

MJ
 
Islam simply means ‘complete submission to will of God (without any objection/s).
 
Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?
Evil.

Evil is Live backwards. That’s what Islam is - backwards living because it claims that Jesus is only a prophet.
 
Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?
War and peace?
Salt or sugar?
Evil and good?

Why do you ask for an answer about a very broad faith from such a rigid dichotomy?

Good things have happened in Islamic history, and bad things have happened. The same goes for Church history.
 
Evil.

Evil is Live backwards. That’s what Islam is - backwards living because it claims that Jesus is only a prophet.
Oh, yeah I’m sure. The Evil Empire of North Korea and Kim Jon Ill versus rejecting Jesus’ messiah-ship.

I suppose you think worse of Judaism.
 
Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?
You must understand that the Copts are a Christian group that have long been oppressed by Muslims in Egypt, so their perception of Islam is going to be far more negatively colored than the mainstream Westerner.

At any rate, it’s always important to distinguish the religion from the followers. I don’t like Islam, I will admit it. And honestly, I think it’s dangerously beginning to encroach on Europe. But I do like many pious, intelligent Muslims out there. I don’t know AmericanMuslim very well but his posts have always seemed reasonable, intelligent, and gracious.
 
You must understand that the Copts are a Christian group that have long been oppressed by Muslims in Egypt, so their perception of Islam is going to be far more negatively colored than the mainstream Westerner.
Good point.
At any rate, it’s always important to distinguish the religion from the followers.
I don’t like Islam, I will admit it. And honestly,** I think it’s dangerously beginning to encroach on Europe.** But I do like many pious, intelligent Muslims out there. I don’t know AmericanMuslim very well but his posts have always seemed reasonable, intelligent, and gracious.
As I often used to traveled along the tube and bus routes of the 7 July bombings, I cannot dismiss the dangers of Islamic radicalism, however, I think most fears about Islam “encroaching” on Europe are mostly hysteria-tricks.

The greater danger in Europe I feel is anti-religious sentiment, atheism and religious indifference.
 
I find Islam is actually good, because I have my Muslim friends who are really respectful of my beliefs as a Catholic. …
This is a common mistake. There is an old joke about whether a particular actress has talent, and the critic’s response is “She loves her mother.” There are some nice atheists, too, but that doesn’t mean atheism is good. “I know some nice Muslims so Islam must be good” is likewise a non sequitur.
 
As I often used to traveled along the tube and bus routes of the 7 July bombings, I cannot dismiss the dangers of Islamic radicalism, however, I think most fears about Islam “encroaching” on Europe are mostly hysteria-tricks.

The greater danger in Europe I feel is anti-religious sentiment, atheism and religious indifference.
I think the growing Muslim population in Europe is a major threat, analogous to rampant secularlism and atheism.

Muslims in Britain are already granted some measure of self-rule with regards to Sharia law.
 
Good point.

As I often used to traveled along the tube and bus routes of the 7 July bombings, I cannot dismiss the dangers of Islamic radicalism, however, I think most fears about Islam “encroaching” on Europe are mostly hysteria-tricks.
You can blame the likes of the Daily Mail for this. Every day the DM seems to cook up some half-baked story about sharia courts, Islamist extremists (it can’t seem to get the idea that not all Muslims are like this) or some other similar story which is based on wobbly, distorted misinformation.

Prime example of this: the story that the name ‘Muhammed’ was supposedly the top name given to boys born in the UK. Shame they omitted to mention that whilst all the possible variations of that name were added, other names which appeared on the list were not. If this was done (for example, Ollie, Olly and Oliver being counted as one name) then Muhammad was something like 16th in the list.
The greater danger in Europe I feel is anti-religious sentiment, atheism and religious indifference.
Add to this religious apathy.

In the last census, 72% of people identified themselves as Christian, yet less than .5% of the total adult population in the UK actually attends church on a regular basis, or does any form of religious practice. Seems that whilst people are content to CALL themselves religious, they do not wish to back it up in practice.

Seems that fewer and fewer people even care about religion any more, and certainly not enough to speak up when reliigous liberty is infringed.
 
Kouyedit: Major thing with the Qur’an is that there are peaceful verses and more belligerent ones. Although in theory the practice of abrogation exists, where later verses ‘replace’ earlier ones that contradict, you can still pretty much pick-and-choose what you wish to suit.
And the “belligerent” ones are actually Allah giving Muslims the right and duty to protect themselves against pagan aggression.

Think of these verses as comparable to the American Declaration of Independence: “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…” From the Muslim perspective, the pagans of Arabia had become destructive of life and liberty, so self-defense was necessary and, in fact, Allah-given.
 
Well, as someone said, we can consider the seed (Koran) and the fruits, Muslims.
I have to mention also that I have noticed a big difference between Muslims who are in Muslim majority country and Muslim in muslim-minority countries. There are Muslims who really live as Christians in terms of values, these are Muslims who evolve in Christian majority countries.

Since Muslim are essentially sola-Scriptura, their interpretations of the Koran depend on prevalent cultures among them.

When I want to know how Islam is really practiced, I look in those countries where even Muslim can’t claim that their religions or values are corrrupted by non-Muslims among them. Then I consider how ‘they treat their neighbors’. I don’t find it good. Many of those Muslim majority countries became Muslim majority by persecuting out non-Muslims and/or violently preventing other religions from being practiced.

Where Muslims are minority, they are usually good and peaceful. I don’t think this is from is Islam, but from the surrounding cultures.

I mean, why isn’t Somalia peaceful, It is the first Muslim country I think, and have never admitted non-Muslims to take any root. If Islam was peaceful, Muslims countries would be the first to prove it.

I don’t think the Catholic Church teaches that Islam is peaceful. She just teaches that Muslims try to worship the God of Abraham.
 
Islam is good 😃

Now, are there “bad parts” to Islam? The people, culture, and practice - sure. Looking over the last 2,000 years of Christianity, there are some awful parts as well. In fact, ALL religions have violent, warlike pasts - Jews have their Kahanists, Christians have their Ku Klux Klan and Inquisition, Hindus have their terror-bombing nationalists…there was even a book on Buddhist violence published a couple years ago that showed a monk with a pistol on its cover and documented centuries of violence. So yes, out of any group of 1.6 billion people (Islam) you will find some bad.

However, you will also find tremendous good. Muslims are intensely community-oriented, intensely religious, and try to lead very moral lives. We pray five times a day, attend masjid (mosque) once a week, and fast from dawn to dusk for 30 days each year. We give to the poor, are commanded to love our fellow man, and abstain from intoxicants, fornication, abortion, pornography, and profanity.

It’s worth pointing out that Jesus is viewed as the second-greatest prophet in Islam and we revere him. Mary is viewed as the greatest woman in Islam. Moses is mentioned more than any other man in the Quran. Abraham, Noah, David - they are all very familiar to us. We pray to the same God you do - as the Catholic Church acknowledged in Vatican II. Obviously, we do have differences in theology, but we have much in common. Indeed, theologically, Islam is closest to Judaism.

I would say that all of the five great religions of the world (Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism) and most (if not all) of the minor ones are forces for good.
Goodness is seen in how people treat their neighbors.
 
I mean, why isn’t Somalia peaceful, It is the first Muslim country I think, and have never admitted non-Muslims to take any root.
This is not true. There was a Catholic church built in Kismayo during its period as part of Italian Somaliland. It was destroyed recently by Islamists after the arrival of the Al-Shabab militant Islamist group in the area, and had not been used in about 30 years by that point, but still, it did exist.

The 60-year-old church had not been used for nearly 20 years and not a single Christian lives in the city - but that was not a good enough reason for the militias to spare the building…they are planning on replacing it with a mosque.

Oh goodie…just what Somalia needs… 😦
 
I usually debate the Muslims in this forum. But, the OP seems to me to refer to the people (forgive me if I misunderstood), rather than the religion. To me, whether Islam is a good religion or not is debatable (though I used to debate against). But, if you are referring to the Muslims, we have to set aside religion. God judges us based not on religion, I believe. I am a Catholic does not mean that I am automatically granted a free ticket to Heaven. Yes, the Way was shown and the Invitation to come was given. But, it is I who must decide whether I want to come in or not. The other thing also valid. A Muslim, regardless of what was said in the Medina Verses, does not mean he/she will go to hell. Remember a story of a good samaritan. If the Catholics were the first two person who let the victim die, while the Muslim indeed the one who took a good care, then the answer is obvious of who is in favor to God.

Surely I debate the validity of Islam, but I do not debate the validity of the people who believe in Islam.
 
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