Islam

[swariffin]

This is not true. There was a Catholic church built in Kismayo during its period as part of Italian Somaliland. It was destroyed recently by Islamists after the arrival of the Al-Shabab militant Islamist group in the area, and had not been used in about 30 years by that point, but still, it did exist.

The 60-year-old church had not been used for nearly 20 years and not a single Christian lives in the city - but that was not a good enough reason for the militias to spare the building…they are planning on replacing it with a mosque.

Oh goodie…just what Somalia needs…

Why didn’t the Somalian pirate use the ransom money they get to build a mosque there?

 

[MartinJordan]

This is a common mistake. There is an old joke about whether a particular actress has talent, and the critic’s response is “She loves her mother.” There are some nice atheists, too, but that doesn’t mean atheism is good. “I know some nice Muslims so Islam must be good” is likewise a non sequitur.

Thanks. But I was not born yesterday.

Ive always stated my Catholic belief to my friends. But my friends do follow the tenants of Islam, the 5 pillars including going to Mecca. The only thing that we’ve had a little tift is when they tell me the Jesus is “only a prophet not God”. But it just ends there. No belittling of me as a person.

That said, there is no doubt in my mind Islam has to correct it’s views on our Lord and it would be better to follow Catholicism instead.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

I usually debate the Muslims in this forum. But, the OP seems to me to refer to the people (forgive me if I misunderstood), rather than the religion. To me, whether Islam is a good religion or not is debatable (though I used to debate against). But, if you are referring to the Muslims, we have to set aside religion. God judges us based not on religion, I believe. I am a Catholic does not mean that I am automatically granted a free ticket to Heaven. Yes, the Way was shown and the Invitation to come was given. But, it is I who must decide whether I want to come in or not. The other thing also valid. A Muslim, regardless of what was said in the Medina Verses, does not mean he/she will go to hell. Remember a story of a good samaritan. If the Catholics were the first two person who let the victim die, while the Muslim indeed the one who took a good care, then the answer is obvious of who is in favor to God.

Surely I debate the validity of Islam, but I do not debate the validity of the people who believe in Islam.

Music to my ears

MJ

 

[Bezant]

I think the growing Muslim population in Europe is a major threat, analogous to rampant secularlism and atheism.

I don’t see the threat as numbers. The dangerous ideas fermenting in some communities grow, in part, because of bad education. Few true Islamic scholars exist today by classical standards: a man who had studied for years with another scholar, mastered all the necessary religious / secular fields, and had a certificate to prove it at the end of his study. Today any charismatic who’s read enough of the sources youtube access is sometimes considered “learned.”

The majority of the Muslim population does not want, and has nothing to gain, from associating with those groups that are the threat – it’s difficult enough to be a religious Muslim.

The fanitcal Muslim minority is too small, and too marginalised, to raise a substantial threat. The only real trump they have is frightening governments and the public into believing that they’re bigger and stronger than they actually are.

Muslims in Britain are already granted some measure of self-rule with regards to Sharia law.

Canon law courts, Jewish courts, and Islamic courts are all allowed to manage community isses, within limits. Freedom of religion.

 

[Bezant]

You can blame the likes of the Daily Mail for this. Every day the DM seems to cook up some half-baked story about sharia courts, Islamist extremists (it can’t seem to get the idea that not all Muslims are like this) or some other similar story which is based on wobbly, distorted misinformation.

Prime example of this: the story that the name ‘Muhammed’ was supposedly the top name given to boys born in the UK. Shame they omitted to mention that whilst all the possible variations of that name were added, other names which appeared on the list were not. If this was done (for example, Ollie, Olly and Oliver being counted as one name) then Muhammad was something like 16th in the list.

Unfortunately that’s how media sells: ignorance, prejudice, and superficiality.

For example, shari’a is a loaded term that’s thrown around very carelessly today. The best explanation you’ll find is “Islamic law” but scholars challenge even that. No Muslim country operates purely on a sharia system. Whatever Iran and Saudi claim, they all combine shari’a with a European-based civil law, or customary law, or both.

Add to this religious apathy.

In the last census, 72% of people identified themselves as Christian, yet less than .5% of the total adult population in the UK actually attends church on a regular basis, or does any form of religious practice. Seems that whilst people are content to CALL themselves religious, they do not wish to back it up in practice.

Seems that fewer and fewer people even care about religion any more, and certainly not enough to speak up when reliigous liberty is infringed.

It’s because Christianity has become cultural. Christmas, Sunday, godparents, and to an extent even Easter, don’t really mean anything anymore. 25 years ago those numbers would have been different.

That’s why observant Christians need to be vocal and visible, in the best positive light possible, to motivate others to observance. We need to dismiss any misgiving about getting into people’s affairs, and evangelise our own flock, before we focus attention on nonbelievers.

 

[arabic_catholic]

As a Former sunni muslim

I lost my believe in Islam due to many reasons , but the main reason was hate

if you think any religion teach you to hate anyone and you are okay with it , than this is your choice!

but to me any religion teach us to hate others is Evil

of course many muslims can lie and say no , Islam is love peace and all this **** and sometimes they will give you an good examples to make you believe them

but the fact is they hate non-muslims and always think that others hate them because allah told them so!

of course I am talking about Muslims who believe what the quran and hadith say . not Muslims in the west who created their own version of Islam !

To me Islam is very Evil Religion , and the more you follow the pure Islam , the more monster you will become .

I am sad for all this kids in Saudi Schools who are brain washed to hate others !

God Bless

 

[MartinJordan]

As a Former sunni muslim

I lost my believe in Islam due to many reasons , but the main reason was hate

if you think any religion teach you to hate anyone and you are okay with it , than this is your choice!

but to me any religion teach us to hate others is Evil

of course many muslims can lie and say no , Islam is love peace and all this **** and sometimes they will give you an good examples to make you believe them

but the fact is they hate non-muslims and always think that others hate them because allah told them so!

of course I am talking about Muslims who believe what the quran and hadith say . not Muslims in the west who created their own version of Islam !

To me Islam is very Evil Religion , and the more you follow the pure Islam , the more monster you will become .

I am sad for all this kids in Saudi Schools who are brain washed to hate others !

God Bless

I am very sad to know how much Islam has hurt you.

MJ

 

[dzheremi]

I think that is looking at it the wrong way. I’m very joyful and thankful to God to know how much Arab Catholic wants to be in a Christian church.

 

[MartinJordan]

I think that is looking at it the wrong way. I’m very joyful and thankful to God to know how much Arab Catholic wants to be in a Christian church.

Oh no, don’t get me wrong, it’s fine that he wants to be a Christian. However, my experience has never been negative with Muslims.

Infact it was a Muslim who save my family’s life many years ago when we had to escape the clutches from the harsh rules of the Buddhist country I was born in. He gave us a place in an Islamic state no less to stay and never asked us to pay back in any shape or form. I lived there for 6 years. Totally peaceful i must add.

MJ

 

[FightingFat]

Ave Maria!
I have talked with a lot of Coptic Orthodoxes about Islam and they seem to think that it’s an evil religion. But when I read Nostra Aetate it’s seems to be a religion of peace.
Is Islam evil or good?

In his book Truth & Tolerance Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, as he was then, explains how there are shards of the divine truth present in all the world religions. They all constitute man’s search for the divine. If you read the Qur’an, you will be surprised by how much of the Bible is in it! As Muslims have access at least to this much, there is potential for Islam to lead people closer to God.

It’s division of faith & reason leads to extremism and violence however!

 

[Sam_777]

“Islam” is just an umbrella term covering the beliefs and practices of a lot of people over a long period of time.

Contarini, that was a very good quote

 

[Sam_777]

It’s worth pointing out that Jesus is viewed as the second-greatest prophet in Islam and we revere him.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif There is no authentic or non-authentic hadith which supports that view, contrarily Muhammed placed Jesus in the lowest grade, read this thread.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I don’t see the threat as numbers. The dangerous ideas fermenting in some communities grow, in part, because of bad education. Few true Islamic scholars exist today by classical standards: a man who had studied for years with another scholar, mastered all the necessary religious / secular fields, and had a certificate to prove it at the end of his study. Today any charismatic who’s read enough of the sources youtube access is sometimes considered “learned.”

The majority of the Muslim population does not want, and has nothing to gain, from associating with those groups that are the threat – it’s difficult enough to be a religious Muslim.

The fanitcal Muslim minority is too small, and too marginalised, to raise a substantial threat. The only real trump they have is frightening governments and the public into believing that they’re bigger and stronger than they actually are.

Canon law courts, Jewish courts, and Islamic courts are all allowed to manage community isses, within limits. Freedom of religion.

A majority Islamic Europe, or one with, at the very least, a substantial Islamic population, isn’t something that most Muslims would want? That doesn’t make much sense. The growing population in France has already reacted angrily to many supposed “anti-Islam” laws approved by the government, like banning the hijab in schools and banning the burqa in public places. And let’s not forget also how Muslims increasingly are worshiping in the main French streets on Fridays instead of in their mosques, despite this being a flagrant violation of French law.

They’re numbers are growing, and the more there are, the more aggressive and assertive they become.

With regards to the courts, Sharia law operates also within secular matters, not just religion.

 

[Kouyate42]

Unfortunately that’s how media sells: ignorance, prejudice, and superficiality.

For example, shari’a is a loaded term that’s thrown around very carelessly today. The best explanation you’ll find is “Islamic law” but scholars challenge even that. No Muslim country operates purely on a sharia system. Whatever Iran and Saudi claim, they all combine shari’a with a European-based civil law, or customary law, or both.

To my knowledge of Islamic culture, shari’a in modern times is only used in areas of civil law such as finance, marriage and divorce and a limited number of criminal charges, which may or may not include murder, rape, theft and adultery. Other charges and issues have a system of law similar to that of the West, with statutes, legal precedent etc.

It’s because Christianity has become cultural. Christmas, Sunday, godparents, and to an extent even Easter, don’t really mean anything anymore. 25 years ago those numbers would have been different.

That’s why observant Christians need to be vocal and visible, in the best positive light possible, to motivate others to observance. We need to dismiss any misgiving about getting into people’s affairs, and evangelise our own flock, before we focus attention on nonbelievers.

A lot of it IMO is to do with Christian education, of any denomination. Some time ago, scripture and faith learning were a big part of people’s lives and people actually understood their faith. Now the majority of Christians seem to understand little of the faith and so are not prepared to understand, study or practice it.

 

[swariffin]

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif There is no authentic or non-authentic hadith which supports that view, contrarily Muhammed placed Jesus in the lowest grade, read this thread.

Interestingly, Quran said that Isa is the one who will judge the world, am I correct?

 

[FightingFat]

Interestingly, Quran said that Isa is the one who will judge the world, am I correct?

The Qur’an mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad. Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the day of judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal (“the false messiah”, also known as the Antichrist).

Numerous titles are given to Jesus in the Qur’an and in Islamic literature, the most common being al-Masīḥ ("the messiah). Jesus is also, at times, called “Seal of the Israelite Prophets”, because, in general Muslim belief, Jesus was the last prophet sent by God to guide the Children of Israel. Jesus is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter’s coming.

Muslims believe that Jesus was a precursor to Muhammad, and that he announced the latter’s coming. They base this on a verse of the Qur’an wherein Jesus speaks of a messenger to appear after him named Ahmad.

Jesus is widely venerated in Muslim ascetic and mystic literature, such as in Muslim mystic Al-Ghazzali’s Ihya `ulum ad-Din (“The revival of the religious sciences”). These works lay stress upon Jesus’ poverty, his preoccupation with worship, his detachment from worldly life and his miracles. Such depictions also include advice and sermons which are attributed to him. Later Sufic commentaries adapted material from Christian gospels which were consistent with their ascetic portrayal. Sufi philosopher Ibn Arabi described Jesus as “the seal of universal holiness” due to the quality of his faith and “because he holds in his hands the keys of living breath and because he is at present in a state of deprivation and journeying.”

The Ahmadiyya view of Jesus, while agreeing that Jesus was mortal, breaks with mainstream Islamic interpretation by asserting that Jesus was not raised alive to Heaven. They claim that he instead died a natural death in India, a position which they have adopted as a characteristic of their faith.

A

 

[MartinJordan]

The Qur’an mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad. Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the day of judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal (“the false messiah”, also known as the Antichrist).

Numerous titles are given to Jesus in the Qur’an and in Islamic literature, the most common being al-Masīḥ ("the messiah). Jesus is also, at times, called “Seal of the Israelite Prophets”, because, in general Muslim belief, Jesus was the last prophet sent by God to guide the Children of Israel. Jesus is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter’s coming.

Muslims believe that Jesus was a precursor to Muhammad, and that he announced the latter’s coming. They base this on a verse of the Qur’an wherein Jesus speaks of a messenger to appear after him named Ahmad.

Jesus is widely venerated in Muslim ascetic and mystic literature, such as in Muslim mystic Al-Ghazzali’s Ihya `ulum ad-Din (“The revival of the religious sciences”). These works lay stress upon Jesus’ poverty, his preoccupation with worship, his detachment from worldly life and his miracles. Such depictions also include advice and sermons which are attributed to him. Later Sufic commentaries adapted material from Christian gospels which were consistent with their ascetic portrayal. Sufi philosopher Ibn Arabi described Jesus as “the seal of universal holiness” due to the quality of his faith and “because he holds in his hands the keys of living breath and because he is at present in a state of deprivation and journeying.”

The Ahmadiyya view of Jesus, while agreeing that Jesus was mortal, breaks with mainstream Islamic interpretation by asserting that Jesus was not raised alive to Heaven. They claim that he instead died a natural death in India, a position which they have adopted as a characteristic of their faith.

A

Quite an eye opener there, FightingFat. Appreciated.

MJ

 

[JugglingReferee]

Oh, yeah I’m sure. The Evil Empire of North Korea and Kim Jon Ill versus rejecting Jesus’ messiah-ship.

I suppose you think worse of Judaism.

Please don’t ever suppose anything about me.

 

[jakasaki]

The Qur’an mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad. Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the day of judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal (“the false messiah”, also known as the Antichrist).

Numerous titles are given to Jesus in the Qur’an and in Islamic literature, the most common being al-Masīḥ ("the messiah). Jesus is also, at times, called “Seal of the Israelite Prophets”, because, in general Muslim belief, Jesus was the last prophet sent by God to guide the Children of Israel. Jesus is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter’s coming.

Muslims believe that Jesus was a precursor to Muhammad, and that he announced the latter’s coming. They base this on a verse of the Qur’an wherein Jesus speaks of a messenger to appear after him named Ahmad.

Jesus is widely venerated in Muslim ascetic and mystic literature, such as in Muslim mystic Al-Ghazzali’s Ihya `ulum ad-Din (“The revival of the religious sciences”). These works lay stress upon Jesus’ poverty, his preoccupation with worship, his detachment from worldly life and his miracles. Such depictions also include advice and sermons which are attributed to him. Later Sufic commentaries adapted material from Christian gospels which were consistent with their ascetic portrayal. Sufi philosopher Ibn Arabi described Jesus as “the seal of universal holiness” due to the quality of his faith and “because he holds in his hands the keys of living breath and because he is at present in a state of deprivation and journeying.”

The Ahmadiyya view of Jesus, while agreeing that Jesus was mortal, breaks with mainstream Islamic interpretation by asserting that Jesus was not raised alive to Heaven. They claim that he instead died a natural death in India, a position which they have adopted as a characteristic of their faith.

A

You failed to mention that the islamic Isa will also do the following when he returns:

Isa will break the Cross

Isa will destroy Christianity and make islam the global religion

Isa will kill the swine

Isa will do away with the islamic tax

Isa will marry and live on earth for 40 years and then die.

Is this Our Lord Jesus Christ…??? I believe not…!!!

The islamic Isa is NOT our Lord Jesus

 

[FightingFat]

You failed to mention that the islamic Isa will also do the following when he returns:

Isa will break the Cross

Isa will destroy Christianity and make islam the global religion

Isa will kill the swine

Isa will do away with the islamic tax

Isa will marry and live on earth for 40 years and then die.

Is this Our Lord Jesus Christ…??? I believe not…!!!

The islamic Isa is NOT our Lord Jesus

jakasaki, could you back this up with Surah please?