Islam

[GFresa9]

As always, I start each thread with a sort of disclaimer that I am not Catholic, nor do I fully understand your traditions; that is why I’m here, to learn. If I interpret something wrongfully, just chalk it up towards my lack of experience and correct me so that I might not make the same mistake in the future.

Explain to me why Christianity has such a low tolerance towards Islamic theology. I’m not talking political. I’m asking as to what reasons that the acceptance of a new prophet (i.e. Muhammad) is of such a vice? I am biased. I come from Judaism which still has the door open to certain prophets, even though we have not taken any. I was raised to look at Islam as a possible truth, but not a possible truth for me.

My question is to why there seems to be an almost “false religion” tone whenever discussing Islam? Is there a possibility for another prophet, or has the door shut?

Sincerely,
Your Jewish Neighbor

 

[Efnouti_Nai_Nan]

I am not Catholic, but it is basic Christian history as passed down from our fathers that there is no new revelation after the apostles, and no new prophets.

St. Matthew tells us in his gospel the following:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them."

We could apply this to Islam or to any religion that starts after Christianity.

Islam’s theology is against the fundamental Christian theology, too: That God is in one in divinity in three persons (the Holy Trinity); that the second person of the Holy Trinity, our Lord and savior Jesus Christ was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary (Theotokos), who truly gave birth to God the logos; that Jesus Christ was before all ages as is forever the only begotten Son of God (in the Islamic scripture, they say that God does not begat nor is he begotten; we agree with the second part only…clearly Jesus is the only-begotten, in our theology); that Jesus Christ was crucified, died, was buried, and resurrected on the third day.

These are all things that we believe to our bones and with all of our hearts and minds, and these are all things that Islam disbelieves. What possible thing can we do other than reject it? We cannot accept it. No Christian can accept Islam or Mohammed and remain a Christian. Mohammed is not a prophet for us and his religion cannot be true, for us or for anyone else.

Traditional Christianity like in the Orthodox church and the Catholic church does not have this idea like you’ve said, where something can be true for others but not actually true. Christianity says that it is true alone, and if other religions also have true things in them, they are still false because they have other things in them that disagree with Christianity. We cannot pick things out just to be nice, so we have to say “false religion” about others religions, if people ask like you did why we don’t accept something (so not just to judge and think we are superior when we are not; Christianity is true because Jesus Christ is true and God has revealed everything to us in perfection in the pure Christian faith). Actually I think this is very similar to how Islam thinks about itself. If the Jews don’t believe in that, then they would be the “odd” religion among the three of us.

 

[WilT]

/…
Islam’s theology is against the fundamental Christian theology, too: That God is in one in divinity in three persons (the Holy Trinity); that the second person of the Holy Trinity, our Lord and savior Jesus Christ was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary (Theotokos), who truly gave birth to God the logos; that Jesus Christ was before all ages as is forever the only begotten Son of God (in the Islamic scripture, they say that God does not begat nor is he begotten; we agree with the second part only…clearly Jesus is the only-begotten, in our theology); that Jesus Christ was crucified, died, was buried, and resurrected on the third day…

Excellently put. I wish I had your clarity! Islam is both a religion and a political ideology. It’s premise is two fold. To rid itself of the Jewish peoples and to conquer and enslave all. It contains barbaric principals in dealing with justice and since it came about 600+ yrs. after Christianity, it poorly mimics both the Christian and Jewish faiths. It’s customs are antiquated with old men being able to marry 6 to 9 year old girls as their prophet Mohammad once did. They conquer without justice, slay non-believers, and are sexually unsatisfied with one mate and lust for more. It’s very tribal and barbaric with no love or compassion shown to God nor man. In todays time, those who follow the faith verbatim are unable to comfortably assimilate themselves in today’s world. Many fanatics commit suicide and will kill themselves to please Allah and to receive some 70+ virgins promised to them in the other world.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Christ taught that He was “the Alpha and the Omega,” the beginning and the end. There can not be any new revelation after the age of Christ. Those who claim to be latter prophets, be they Mohammed or Joseph Smith, are false.

 

[bisco]

pope francis has enormous charity for islam.

 

[tawny]

I am not Catholic, but it is basic Christian history as passed down from our fathers that there is no new revelation after the apostles, and no new prophets.

St. Matthew tells us in his gospel the following:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them."

We could apply this to Islam or to any religion that starts after Christianity.

Islam’s theology is against the fundamental Christian theology, too: That God is in one in divinity in three persons (the Holy Trinity); that the second person of the Holy Trinity, our Lord and savior Jesus Christ was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary (Theotokos), who truly gave birth to God the logos; that Jesus Christ was before all ages as is forever the only begotten Son of God (in the Islamic scripture, they say that God does not begat nor is he begotten; we agree with the second part only…clearly Jesus is the only-begotten, in our theology); that Jesus Christ was crucified, died, was buried, and resurrected on the third day.

These are all things that we believe to our bones and with all of our hearts and minds, and these are all things that Islam disbelieves. What possible thing can we do other than reject it? We cannot accept it. No Christian can accept Islam or Mohammed and remain a Christian. Mohammed is not a prophet for us and his religion cannot be true, for us or for anyone else.

Traditional Christianity like in the Orthodox church and the Catholic church does not have this idea like you’ve said, where something can be true for others but not actually true. Christianity says that it is true alone, and if other religions also have true things in them, they are still false because they have other things in them that disagree with Christianity. We cannot pick things out just to be nice, so we have to say “false religion” about others religions, if people ask like you did why we don’t accept something (so not just to judge and think we are superior when we are not; Christianity is true because Jesus Christ is true and God has revealed everything to us in perfection in the pure Christian faith). Actually I think this is very similar to how Islam thinks about itself. If the Jews don’t believe in that, then they would be the “odd” religion among the three of us.

Well stated.

 

[TradCatholic34]

Given that as we debate on these threads, Christians are being massacred all over the Middle East by followers of Islam on a scale not seen since the Middle Ages, I am not sure Christians should be the ones accused of alleged intolerance towards Islam.

 

[Todd977]

My question is to why there seems to be an almost “false religion” tone whenever discussing Islam? Is there a possibility for another prophet, or has the door shut?

The gift of prophecy is certainly something that God can give to anyone he chooses at any time. St Paul encouraged Christians to pray to God that they might receive the gift of prophecy. (See 1 Corinthians 14:1.) However, since Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate and that his teachings are definitive, they expect all true prophets coming after Jesus Christ to reaffirm his teachings and not contradict them. In fact, there have been many such prophets in the Church’s 2000-year history whose “private revelations” have reaffirmed the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Because his revelations often contradict the teachings of Jesus Christ, a Catholic can only conclude that Mohammad was not a true prophet.

 

[Randy_Carson]

As always, I start each thread with a sort of disclaimer that I am not Catholic, nor do I fully understand your traditions; that is why I’m here, to learn. If I interpret something wrongfully, just chalk it up towards my lack of experience and correct me so that I might not make the same mistake in the future.

Explain to me why Christianity has such a low tolerance towards Islamic theology. I’m not talking political. I’m asking as to what reasons that the acceptance of a new prophet (i.e. Muhammad) is of such a vice? I am biased. I come from Judaism which still has the door open to certain prophets, even though we have not taken any. I was raised to look at Islam as a possible truth, but not a possible truth for me.

My question is to why there seems to be an almost “false religion” tone whenever discussing Islam? Is there a possibility for another prophet, or has the door shut?

Sincerely,
Your Jewish Neighbor

Hebrews 1
1 In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

 

[DebChris]

Catholicism accepts Islam, as it accepts Judaism as one of the religions coming from Abraham.
The Catholic Church clearly teaches “the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” CCC841

Where do they differ? They do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Savoir, as Messiah. They do not accept that God can beget a Son, who in turn would save the world from its sin. They are of the branch of Ishmael while Judaism and Christianity are of the branch of Israel.
All prophecy in the OT points to Christ. Anything afterward that does not to point to Christ, and a closer relationship with him is not from God.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Catholicism accepts Islam, as it accepts Judaism as one of the religions coming from Abraham.
The Catholic Church clearly teaches “the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” CCC841

Where do they differ? They do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Savoir, as Messiah. They do not accept that God can beget a Son, who in turn would save the world from its sin. They are of the branch of Ishmael while Judaism and Christianity are of the branch of Israel.
All prophecy in the OT points to Christ. Anything afterward that does not to point to Christ, and a closer relationship with him is not from God.

This is not exactly correct. Catholicism accepts Judaism as an actual divinely inspired faith that is still in effect for those Jews who are still ignorant of the truth of Christ. It holds Islam to be inspired by the two divinely inspired Abrahamic faiths, that it is centered on worshiping God (though incompletely and incorrectly), and that Muslims are acting in good faith when the believe that Islam is the third divinely inspired Abrahamic faith. Catholicism does not hold Islam to be a divinely inspired Abrahamic faith.

 

[StrawberryJam]

As always, I start each thread with a sort of disclaimer that I am not Catholic, nor do I fully understand your traditions; that is why I’m here, to learn. If I interpret something wrongfully, just chalk it up towards my lack of experience and correct me so that I might not make the same mistake in the future.

Explain to me why Christianity has such a low tolerance towards Islamic theology. I’m not talking political. I’m asking as to what reasons that the acceptance of a new prophet (i.e. Muhammad) is of such a vice? I am biased. I come from Judaism which still has the door open to certain prophets, even though we have not taken any. I was raised to look at Islam as a possible truth, but not a possible truth for me.

My question is to why there seems to be an almost “false religion” tone whenever discussing Islam? Is there a possibility for another prophet, or has the door shut?

Sincerely,
Your Jewish Neighbor

Non believer answers.
The prophet Mohammed, Peace be upon him, came upon the world many, many years after Judaism and Catholic Christianity.
This may or may not answer why people who don’t know Islam from birth or Judaism from birth may decide that neither one is right.

 

[DebChris]

This is not exactly correct. Catholicism accepts Judaism as an actual divinely inspired faith that is still in effect for those Jews who are still ignorant of the truth of Christ. It holds Islam to be inspired by the two divinely inspired Abrahamic faiths, that it is centered on worshiping God (though incompletely and incorrectly), and that Muslims are acting in good faith when the believe that Islam is the third divinely inspired Abrahamic faith. Catholicism does not hold Islam to be a divinely inspired Abrahamic faith.

It is Islam that says God neither begets nor is begotten.
We, as Catholics are part of the Judeo-Christian Tradition. Both follow the lineage of Israel.
Those who follow Islam claim Ismael as their inheritance.
All three religions are centered on the worship of the one true God, the God of Abraham.

 

[MartinJordan]

Those who follow Islam claim Ismael as their inheritance.

I thought Islam claims everything as their inheritance, directly (ie Ishmael) or indirectly (ie Jesus) by way of calling our Lord as a Muslim Yet insisting Jesus was a prophet for the Israelites.

MJ

 

[oldcatholicguy]

It is Islam that says God neither begets nor is begotten.
We, as Catholics are part of the Judeo-Christian Tradition. Both follow the lineage of Israel.
Those who follow Islam claim Ismael as their inheritance.
All three religions are centered on the worship of the one true God, the God of Abraham.

Worshipping the same God we and the Jews do does not make Islam a divinely inspired religion or a truly Abrahamic faith since the Abrahamic faiths are divinely inspired (for us that means Christianity and Judaism, for Jews that means Judaism).

 

[drac16]

pope francis has enormous charity for islam.

Yes, but most catholics don’t. Strange how that works.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Yes, but most catholics don’t. Strange how that works.

And your basis for your assessment is?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes, but most catholics don’t. Strange how that works.

Yeah, flying planes into buildings can cause some people to be a tad stand-offish…it’s not generally a good public relations move when you’re trying to get folks to warm up to you.

 

[drac16]

And your basis for your assessment is?

The people here and most catholics worldwide. There are turkish christians who have been hospitable to muslim refugees of Syria and there were Ethiopian christians who saved many muslim lives in the 7th century (especially the Ethiopian King, who was also a christian). Nowadays, though, for catholics, aside from the current Pope and the last two Popes [John Paul and Benedict], catholics hardly care at all about muslims.

We’re just statistics to you. If I were dying on the side of the road and begged for help, most of you wouldn’t stop-- and if you did, you’d just laugh.

 

[dronald]

The people here and most catholics worldwide. There are turkish christians who have been hospitable to muslim refugees of Syria and there were Ethiopian christians who saved many muslim lives in the 7th century (especially the Ethiopian King, who was also a christian). Nowadays, though, for catholics, aside from the current Pope and the last two Popes [John Paul and Benedict], catholics hardly care at all about muslims.

We’re just statistics to you. If I were dying on the side of the road and begged for help, most of you wouldn’t stop-- and if you did, you’d just laugh.

Nah, I would help ya up.

Not a fan of your beliefs though but I’m sure you’ve read the whole good Samaritan story.