Islam

[Cyber_Knight]

Justice2006:

But you need to learn a **lot **, Mr. Myangel and not from other people’s eyes but from your own eyes…to see the THINGS AS THEY ARE.

If you are a Catholic, here is a verse from your BIble - The New American BIble. Lets see if you can learn something from this verse too:

Justice2006… where is your debating skill? now jump onto Razor thing? Didnt you bring Babies issue? You are such a typical muslim that when people cornering you and you dont have the answer… then you jump onto another topic… how I always amazed by you, muslims, debating skill intelligence. Finish your debate with Rodrigo first, we would like to get some learn from both of you here. Please… show your best debate skill here (like you did on your first post on CA, you sounded confidence unlike yesterday and today)

 

[brotherhrolf]

Rodrigo Diaz de Bivar: For you I send these greetings:

For God, Alfonso, and Spain! May you wear the white surcoat with the red cross forever! Your namesake has been my hero since childhood. Viva Rodrigo!

 

[Myangel]

Justice2006:

But you need to learn a **lot **, Mr. Myangel and not from other people’s eyes but from your own eyes…to see the THINGS AS THEY ARE.

If you are a Catholic, here is a verse from your BIble - The New American BIble. Lets see if you can learn something from this verse too:

** Isaiah 7:Verse 20 **
From The New American Bible

20 9 ** On that day the LORD shall shave ** with the razor hired from across the River (with the king of Assyria) the head, and the hair between the legs. It shall also shave off the beard.

Footnote : 9 God will use the Assyrians from across the River (the Euphrates) as his instrument (razor) to inflict disgrace and suffering upon his people.

Note: The above verse and it’s footnote#9 is taken from Catholic’s The New American Bible.

usccb.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah7.htm ]
usccb.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah7.htm#foot9 ]

---

PS: I didn’t qoute this verse (Isaiah 7:20) from ***The Message Bible *** because I assume you are a Catholic thus you may disagree with other versions of the Bibles. But if you think you can accept The Message Bible, I will qoute from it but you have to have lot of patience while reading it.

.

:whacky: We have gone from “Only Begotten Son” to “Children who die without baptism go to hell” and now “The Lord Shaving with a Razor”.

Originally Posted by Justice2006
Yes, Mr. Bivar, if time allows me, I will compare the behaviour and show you the result, God-willing. One thing at a time. You are jumping up and down

I am a female BTW. And after many many years away from the Catholic Church, I finally came home and have never and will NEVER look back I SEE THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE, I believe in Jesus Christ, The Trinity and everything CATHOLIC. Until the day Jesus Christ comes down from heaven and says to his people He is starting a new Church/religion and to follow him I will remain put.

I am learning from both you and Mr Bivar, you post something that is UNTRUE about my faith and Mr Bivar corrects you with a detailed explanation, thats the learning part for me, so even if he is not getting through to you (by that I mean opening your mind and helping you understand christianity, not converting you), it’s definately not a waste of time as he is strengthening my faith and giving me a heads up when I have to defend my faith to people who spread “untruths” about Catholicism/Christianity.

It would be nice to know your interpretation of Isaiah 7:Verse 20 but then we will be jumping from one topic to the next so I wont ask for it!

 

[Cyber_Knight]

brotherhrolf:

Rodrigo Diaz de Bivar: For you I send these greetings:

For God, Alfonso, and Spain! May you wear the white surcoat with the red cross forever! Your namesake has been my hero since childhood. Viva Rodrigo!

Hey bortherhrofl… thats nice greeting for Roddie!!..

RODRIGO AND JUSTICE2006… please continue your discussion

 

[Justice2006]

Myangel:

I am learning from both you and Mr Bivar, you post something that is UNTRUE about my faith and Mr Bivar corrects you with a detailed explanation, thats the learning part for me, so even if he is not getting through to you (by that I mean opening your mind and helping you understand christianity, not converting you), it’s definately not a waste of time as he is strengthening my faith and giving me a heads up when I have to defend my faith to people who spread “untruths” about Catholicism/Christianity.

Well Ms. Myangel, unfortunately your Mr. Bivar has no proper knowledge of Islam thus he cannot deceive me.

As to your faith is “strengthening” from his posts; it is because since you too are not really aware of Islam and it seems to me that you love/wish to stay in whatever position you are. I cannot do anything in this regard unless if you take an initiative and really see the things as they are and not as your Mr. Bivar wants you see/hired by someone to “strengthen” the faith of people like you.

.

 

[Justice2006]

Myangel:

It would be nice to know your interpretation of Isaiah 7:Verse 20 but then we will be jumping from one topic to the next so I wont ask for it!

Ms. Myangel,

You want to know my interpretation of Isaiah 7:20 which is already as clear as the Sun in your Catholic New American Bible with it’s footnote# 9 ?

Well, if you insist, I will try but first lets see how ***The Message Bible * ** has translated this verse:

Isaiah 7:20
from: The Message® Bible

** And that’s when the Master will take the razor rented from across the Euphrates–the king of Assyria no less!-and shave the hair off your heads and genitals, leaving you shamed, exposed, and denuded. He’ll shave off your beards while he’s at it. **

[Isaiah 7:20; MSG - And that’s when the Master will take - Bible Gateway]](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah 7:20;&version=65;])

The Message® **Bible **
by Eugene H. Peterson
The Message® is a contemporary paraphrase of the Bible from the original languages, crafted to present its tone, rhythm, events, and ideas in everyday English.

.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Hey JUSTICE2006… what that verse has to do with babies and original sin??? you even havent finished your discussion with Bivar and now you are bringing this thing up? whats the problem with this verse?..is shaving the hair a problem for you to understand or what?

Sorry to tell you, you even cannot stand your debating skill once Rodrigo join the discussion. I hope you are not weak against him, beside… he is just an infidel. I believe you could do better than that!!

--------------------------- just to remind you about ‘shaving’ things…
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: the prophet said, if you enter your town at night after coming from a journey, do not enter upon your family till the woman whose husband was absent from the house Shaves her pubic hair and the woman with unkempt hair, combs her hair.Etc.
Sahih AL-Bukhari. Vol. 7, Book # 62, Number 173.

 

[Myangel]

Well Ms. Myangel, unfortunately your Mr. Bivar has no proper knowledge of Islam thus he cannot deceive me.

Nor you me. You have no proper knowledge of my religion and thus cannot convince me!

As to your faith is “strengthening” from his posts; it is because since you too are not really aware of Islam and it seems to me that you love/wish to stay in whatever position you are. I cannot do anything in this regard unless if you take an initiative and really see the things as they are

and not as your Mr. Bivar wants you by someone to “strengthen” the faith of people like you.

What are you talking about? I am happy where I am, and that has nothing to do with Mr Bivar. I was born, bred Catholic and my faith has come through for me on more than one occasion. Mr Bivar helps with his knowledge on history about my faith which only makes my arguments STRONGER when I come up against people like you I know what I believe and SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE you need not worry about that.

 

[Justice2006]

--------------------------- just to remind you about ‘shaving’ things…
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: the prophet said, if you enter your town at night after coming from a journey, do not enter upon your family till the woman whose husband was absent from the house Shaves her pubic hair and the woman with unkempt hair, combs her hair.Etc.
Sahih AL-Bukhari. Vol. 7, Book # 62, Number 173.

Mr. Cyber Knight,

You forgot few things. Let me qoute the Hadith first.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 173: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, “If you enter (your town) at night (after coming from a journey), do not enter upon your family till the woman whose husband was absent (from the house) shaves her pubic hair and the woman with unkempt hair, combs her hair” Allah’s Apostle further said, “(O Jabir!) Seek to have offspring, seek to have offspring!”

First this is an Hadith and not verses of the Holy Koran. All Hadith are narrations/reports of men. In this Hadith an advice has been given and asked not to interrupt/interfere the privacy of even your own wife (when you are back from a long journey and about to enter your own home at night) and do allow her enough time to prepare herself.

---

But the verse (Isaiah 7:20), I qouted, was from your Holy Bible which is considered the Word of God by the Christians. And according the Catholic’s The New American Bible:

The complete Book of Isaiah is an anthology of poems composed chiefly by the great prophet, but also by disciples, some of whom came many years after Isaiah. In 1-39 most of the oracles come from Isaiah and faithfully reflect the situation in eighth-century Judah.

As per Matthew Henry: "This chapter [Isaiah 7] is an occasional sermon, in which the prophet [Isaiah] sings both of mercy and judgment to those that did not perceive or understand either; he piped unto them, but they danced not, mourned unto them, but they wept not."

So:

18 "That’s when GOD will whistle for the flies at the headwaters of Egypt’s Nile, and whistle for the bees in the land of Assyria.

19 They’ll come and infest every nook and cranny of this country. There’ll be no getting away from them.

20 And that’s when the Master will take the razor rented from across the Euphrates–the king of Assyria no less!-and shave the hair off your heads and genitals, leaving you shamed, exposed, and denuded. He’ll shave off your beards while he’s at it.
[The Message Bible]

---

As you can see, what the Judeo-Christian God of love, will do with the Jews, on that Day (the Day of Judgement).

You may ask whats wrong with shaving the hair of Jews’ gentials, heads and even their long beards by the Judeo-Christian God of love? Good question!.. according to ***Contemprory English Bible * ** " the Lord will pay the king of Assyria to bring a razor from across the Euphrates River and shave your head and every hair on your body, including your beard". And "**shave. . . head. . . body. . . beard is ** “**a terrible insult **”.
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%207:20;&version=46; ]

Now my question is why your God of Love should go out of his way to shave the genitals of Jews, their heads and beards with a RAZOR, which is not even his own property but He is going to hire from a specific nation–Assyrians?

- And how your Lord of Love is going to shave every hair of your body with Assyrian’s Razor?
- How much rent He is going to pay to the Assyrians?
- How long it will take for Him to punish all Jews?
- When Jews are getting shaved their genitals, heads, beards…every hair by God, for long all those millions/billions of Jews have to stay in a line/Que?
…Because obviously God is ONE and shaving every hair of all Jews’ bodies, is going to take a loooooong time with a hired Razor which is very old/an antique belongs to Assyrains and very old version of RAZOR ,unlike the one we use.
-Even if God used the most latest Razor, it is a razor only and not an automatic shaving machine.

.

.

 

[Booklover]

Justice2006, the title of this thread is ISLAM! Instead of your constant diatribes against our religion, why don’t you offer us irrefutable proof that the Angel Gabriel really appeared to Mohammed, that Mohammed is really a prophet, that the Quran is really the word of God, not the word of Mohammed, that “Allah” is really God and not Mohammed’s alter ego! WHERE IS YOUR PROOF?

 

[Booklover]

Shadowcry:

i wonder where you get your lies from? “Our churchdoes not teaches hatred but we know Islam does” Very absurd especially when you have no proof to back up any of your ridiculous statements.

What lies? Islam is the perfect “cult” of hate! Your satanic book the Quran is full of intolerant statements!

See post #388 and read the testimony of a Muslim woman concerning hate! Here’s an excerpt from it:

In school in Gaza, I learned hate, vengeance and retaliation. Peace was never an option, as it was considered a sign of defeat and weakness. At school we sang songs with verses calling Jews “dogs” (in Arab culture, dogs are considered unclean).

Criticism and questioning were forbidden. When I did either of these, I was told: “Muslims cannot love the enemies of God, and those who do will get no mercy in hell.” As a young woman, I visited a Christian friend in Cairo during Friday prayers, and we both heard the verbal attacks on Christians and Jews from the loudspeakers outside the mosque. They said: “May God destroy the infidels and the Jews, the enemies of God. We are not to befriend them or make treaties with them.” We heard worshippers respond “Amen”.

And you claim that your religion does not promote hate?

Vickie

 

[inJESUS]

Shalom Justice i hope you are doing well…shall i get some answers for my questions before you quote all the corrupt Bible to us?

 

[inJESUS]

As for Isaiah, although this question does NOT belong here, i’ll answer you maybe coz It never dawned on you that God is speaking metaphorically. The act of shaving one’s head and hair was done during the times of mourning:

“When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.” Deuteronomy 21:10-13
“Dibon goes up to its temple, to its high places to weep; Moab **wails ** over Nebo and Medeba. **Every head is shaved and every beard cut off.” Isaiah 15:2 **
Hence, God is predicting that Assyria will soon mourn due to the destruction and calamity that God would bring upon it.

The OT is full of metaphorical language proper to people at that time.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Look like Justice2006 should learn about OT first before he throw OT verses lol. Why all of sudden you attack us with OT? because you cannot find any violent and strange verses in the NT? , you never refute any question that have made by Bivar, InJesus or others, you jump into another topic, distracting people’s attentions. Nice try muslim!!

---

**Q: In Isa 7:20, what is the significance of God shaving with a razor? **
A: There are to “points” to “face”.
A razor gives a close shave, and they would have a close call with the Assyrian knife right next to their skin.
In that culture, it was an insult to shave a man’s beard against his will, as 2 Samuel 10:4 indicates. The nation would be humiliated by the Assyrians.

 

[Justice2006]

Cyber Knight:

Look like Justice2006 should learn about OT first before he throw OT verses lol. Why all of sudden you attack us with OT? because you cannot find any violent and strange verses in the NT?

Mr. Cyber Knight,

Let me tell you this: there is nothng metaphorical with the verse Isaiah 7:20. This verse is clearly telling you that your God of Love is going to shave **the genitals, the heads, the beards and every hair ** of God choosen people-Jews, with **a very specific Razor ** which He will hire not from Americans nor Africans nor Chinese nor Japanses but from Assyrians. There is really something special with that specific Razor that only Assyrians carry.

It is upto you to ask your God of Love directly when you are filled with the Holy Spirit:

**O God of Love, what is so special with that Assyrian Razor?

Why you cannot use any other Razor created by you yourself?

And why you have to HIRE it? Isn’t everything belongs to you?

Are you incapable of creating a more sophistacted RAZOR, better than the Assyrians?

How about using Japanese latest shaving machine? How you are going to shave the genitials of all those millions and billions of Jews?

Are you going to hold their genitals in your hand when shaving?

How you will shave their genitials if you don’t hold their private parts in your hand while shaving to remove every hair of their body?

Obviously, Jews have lot of hairs on their bodies unlike some other nations, then how you will shave every hair of their body such as hairs on their back private areas etc.

And finally, are you only going to shave Jewish men only or their women as well? If women too, then how you shave their women in front of their men, on that Day (the Day of Judgement)?**

Or you can ask your Holy infallible Papacy who is “under the direct guidance” of Holy Spirit; she me clarify it for you after consulting her Holy Spirit, because in her mind only she is under the inspiration of Holy Spirit thus she won’t allow any other un-infallible, non-Catholic to interpret her version of the Holy Bible.

Mr. Cyber Knight, you may be thinking I am joking, No…please read your Catholic Catechism, to make sure what I just said. Here I will qoute something for your convenience:

**Catholic Catechism…Lesson 14: ** Interpreting The Bible

Question 1. Is the meaning of the Bible so clear that anyone reading it, can readily understand it?
The Bible is by no means so easily understood: St. Peter himself tells us that it contains many things: “… hard to be understood …” (II Pet. III,16).

Question 2. Whom do we have to interpret the Bible for us?
**The Catholic Church interprets the Bible for us. **

Question 3. Is it natural that we should have a guide in interpreting the Bible?
**Quite natural, just as in America, we have the Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution of the United States. The difference is that the Church is infallible and the Supreme Court is not! **

Question 4. So the Church cannot make mistakes in interpreting the Bible?
**No, for she is under the guidance of the Holy Ghost. **
drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson14 ]

As to whether I found “any violent and strange verses in the NT”, see my next post.

.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Buenos Diaz señor y señora ,
What’ll we talk about next?

Ciubate,
Cid

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I know, why don’t we talk about Islam? That’s the name of the thread, isn’t it?

Nos vemos después,
Rodrigo

 

[Justice2006]

Cyber Knight:

Why all of sudden you attack us with OT? because you cannot find any violent and strange verses in the NT?

Mr. Cyber knight,

Lets see what Jesus Christ is reported to have said by Saint Luke, under his Holy Spirit’s inspiration in the New Testament.

Gospel According to Saint Luke
Chapter 19 verse 26-27

26 But I [Jesus] say to you, that to every one that hath shall be given, and he shall abound: and from him that hath not, even that which he hath, shall be taken from him.

27 **But as for those my enemies, who would not have me reign over them, bring them hither, and kill them before me. **

Douay Rheims Bible
[Douay-Rheims Bible, Luke Chapter 19]](Douay-Rheims Bible, Luke Chapter 19])

Do you think, here:

**Jesus is lying or

Saint Luke is reporting wrong or

he was not under the inspiration of Holy Spirit, when he wrote the above verses?**

How can you reconcile the above statement of Jesus with your concept of Jesus being a “God of Love” and “non-voilent”** all the time?**

And also when Holy “infallible” Papacy was on a bloody compagain to get rid of innocent Children of God-Jews:

**was she under the guidance and inspiration of same Holy Spirit, at that time/period? and

Under what Testament’s instructions**()**, she made the lives of innocent Jews, miserable that they either had to get converted to Christainty or get killed or leave their homes/land forever and take refuge in Muslims/Arabs land?
**()-----as per The Old Testament or the New Testament?!!

.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Justice2006:

This thread’s topic is Islam, by the way.

So, Justice2006, keep jumping to find the errorneous about OT and NT now. What happened with your own post above?

Irrelavant, you just going around Isaiah 7:20. Read whole Isaiah and you got the answer. Love to mix here and there to come up the result as per your wish. Thats cheap tactics of muslims btw. I dont see my or other statements here are against Catholic Cathecism. In other hand, you should believe what I and friends here to say to you regarding the Isaiah 7:20. How could you intepret it by yourself and claim it no mistake? read carefully below your own quotation especially#4. UNDER GUIDANCE OF HOLY GHOST. Are you Christian? NO, Do you believe in Holy Spirit? NO. Are WE Christian? YES. Do WE believe Holy Spirit? YES!

THEN why insist that you are able to interpret the OT (or NEXT NT) according to your own mind when you are not under guidance Holy Spirit? the only thing you should do and settle this dispute is to believe what we explained.

 

[George_Waters]

Cyber Knight:

THEN why insist that you are able to interpret the OT (or NEXT NT) according to your own mind when you are not under guidance Holy Spirit? the only thing you should do and settle this dispute is to believe what we explained.

Always the same isn’t it Cyber Knight? They don’t believe something, but will accept it’s validity to promote their own version.