Islam

[Mike_D30]

Muslima:

Dear freinds,
Islam respects christianity and christians,

Peace be upon you

I hear Muslim’s say this but it isn’t true. In the Koran it states Christians are to pay the Dhimi, so we know we’re subjugated. That is slavery not respect.

As much as Muslim’s complain about the West. The west treats Muslim’s 100 times better than Muslim’s treat Christian’s and Jew’s.

 

[ronald]

there is no salvation outside Jesus. Only in Jesus brother!!! No matter how nice and kind we are but if we don’t believe Him as the Son of God we will end up in hell. I’m the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one can enter Father’s house except through Me. Just tell your relatives about this teaching and leave the rest to Jesus whether they would belive it or not. We must be nice and kind people in Jesus’ teaching.

 

[ChristsSoldier]

Muslima:

Let us agree first that todays world has forsaken spirituality.

they succeeded to show the whole world a very bad image of moslims and to convince them that moslems are all terrorists.

But our misunderstanding here should be viewed in another way, you must know us first in a true way in order to judge us rightfully. The commandments of Islam asks us to know the customs, culture and knowledge of other people.
God Almighty said in Quran:
49:13: " Mankind, We have created you from a male and a female and divided you into nations and tribes that you might get to know one another."

I ask you here to give a chance to moslems to say what they really are .

Muslima,
Blessings be upon you and may All Mighty God, Our Lord, Bless your family.
Much of this world is forsaken, I myself am flawed (and trying in to improve). However, the rogue fringe in your faith needed no help from my government to show it’s might or dedication to violence.
Neither today, or in the past.

I am desperate to hear that a respected leader of you faith renounce the course this fight has placed us in.

I have been all over the middle east, I am certain you know of the mutual respect your common people and the common people of my good land share.

Walking the streets of ‘anywhere’ in the middle east, I was met with hospitality, love, and peace that I can honestly say I may not find in USA. We are both of good people, this is not what is in question…

You cannot come to a website of subscribed and dedicated Catholics, and discuss what those lost to our faith do… They will not be found here!

The dialogue/question, for me, is what are the true intentions of your faith my Brother? Represent that here! This is the question.

Do not simply say it is peace, Please prove this to me.
I am heartfully sorry, but the words of one following Islam are the words of one man who’s leaders in faith do not represent or announce this belief to me.

I have met your faith-kind. I have looked them in the eye. Felt their heart, welcomed their coffee, never did I feel threatened.

However, I hear and see your leaders and pray against the temptation to judge.

Please show me where your leaders or your text stand to front the things that I see happening every day.

How will your leaders quell these things to inspire the peace and freedom our Lord commands?

Thank you for you honest and heart felt attempt to dialogue.
Peace,
CS

 

[moses8472]

You know what i find on these types of posts…

THE MUSLIMS SAY THE CHRISTIANS ONLY SEE FROM THE CHRISTIAN VIEW AND REJECT ALL ARGUMENTS AGAINST THEM, NOT SEEING THINGS FROM ANYONE ELSES POINT OF VIEW…

THE CHRISTIANS SAY THE MUSLIMS ONLY SEE FROM THE MUSLIM VIEW AND REJECT ALL ARGUMENTS AGAINST THEM, NOT SEEING THINGS FROM ANYONE ELSES POINT OF VIEW…

You know what i see…

BOTH OF YOU REJECT ALL ARGUMENTS AGAINST EACH OTHER, AND BOTH OF YOU REFUSE TO SEE THINGS FROM ANYONE ELSES POINT OF VIEW…

 

[melbourne_guy]

I have no problems with athiests or budhists or hindus or jews and i dont think they have a problem with us. But every one of those religions i metioned has had conflicts with islam in the past 100 years. Why is that? islam seems to be the only religion that cannot live with another.

 

[inJESUS]

You know what i find on these types of posts…

THE MUSLIMS SAY THE CHRISTIANS ONLY SEE FROM THE CHRISTIAN VIEW AND REJECT ALL ARGUMENTS AGAINST THEM, NOT SEEING THINGS FROM ANYONE ELSES POINT OF VIEW…

wrong…we have the quran and hadith as evidences…

THE CHRISTIANS SAY THE MUSLIMS ONLY SEE FROM THE MUSLIM VIEW AND REJECT ALL ARGUMENTS AGAINST THEM, NOT SEEING THINGS FROM ANYONE ELSES POINT OF VIEW…

they must refer to theBible…it’s a discussion of faith and teachings, not of people.

You know what i see…

BOTH OF YOU REJECT ALL ARGUMENTS AGAINST EACH OTHER, AND BOTH OF YOU REFUSE TO SEE THINGS FROM ANYONE ELSES POINT OF VIEW…

wrong…to understand both religions , look at their scriptures which obviously contradict each other…when Jesus ’ teachings are CLEARLY peaceful, the quran is not…it’s not about people coz people everywhere are sinful.

 

[moses8472]

Who gives a **** whether you claim your scripture is peaceful and there’s is not… Cause the fact is, si most christians for the vast amount of christian history have not been peaceful!!! Just because your scripture is peaceful doesnt mean you are going to be peaceful… And the New testament part is the only part of the bible which in any way could be claimed to be peaceful.

And to the comment that islam cant live with other religions… you mentioned the past 100 years??? What about the other 1300 years that islam for the most part existed side by side with other religions??? And what about the past 2000 years that the christian religion has not been able to live with other religions??? The different religions just changed there methods on how they attack all other religions. Muslims went from being peacful to being hostile, and christians went from being hostile for peaceful… Both of your faiths do evil things as well as good, and both of your faiths have roots in oppression and violence as well as good people, just neither of you refuse to accept that your holier then holier religions arent that much more holier then any of the others in this world.

 

[cocot]

moses8472:

… Cause the fact is, si most christians for the vast amount of christian history have not been peaceful!!! And to the comment that islam cant live with other religions… you mentioned the past 100 years??? What about the other 1300 years that islam for the most part existed side by side with other religions??? And what about the past 2000 years that the christian religion has not been able to live with other religions??? .

Yea? where is your proof?
I suggest you open a history book or two.

 

[inJESUS]

Who gives a **** whether you claim your scripture is peaceful and there’s is not…

we care when soeone like yourself claims Christianity is violent.Christianity started with the apostles who were all killed and the early Christians who were persecuted…if Jesus is peaceful then save us your irrelevant remarks please.

And the New testament part is the only part of the bible which in any way could be claimed to be peaceful.

yea we follow the NT…and you?

And to the comment that islam cant live with other religions… you mentioned the past 100 years??? What about the other 1300 years that islam for the most part existed side by side with other religions???

you must be kidding…islam started with mohammad who started with the sword.

Both of your faiths do evil things as well as good, and both of your faiths have roots in oppression and violence as well as good people,

show me the violence in the NT or in Jesus and his apostles…if you dont find, then do not post your brilliant remarks anymore.

 

[moses8472]

here are many of the evils done my christians in the world my friend (which dates back very very far):

(1)In Northern Europe, Norse pagans were the subject of much religious intolerance from Christians. The priests were killed, temples torn down and the followers persecuted and killed.
(2)During the christianization of Greece, there was much persecution of Ancient Greek religion. Followers were the subject of a great deal of religious intolerance from Christians. The priests were killed, the followers persecuted and killed, and the temples torn down to be made into limestone quarries, Christian churches, or civic buildings.
(3)The conflict between the Orthodox and Arian versions of Christianity was one of the causes of conflict between Christian peoples, in particular Vatican supported assaults on the kingdoms of the Arian Vandals and Goths.
(4)In fully Christian Europe there were a number of persecutions directed against Jews and Christian heretics
(5)Jews were also persecuted in Visigothic Spain and later elsewhere in Europe, especially after the emergence of the blood libel. Jews were persecuted, killed and eventually expelled from England by King Edward I. In Spain after the Reconquista, Jews and Muslims were forced to either convert or be exiled. Many were killed.
(6)Conflict between Christian factions reached its height following the Reformation, as Protestants and Catholics struggled for control of territories in Western Europe. Catholic authorities persecuted Protestants in a number of jurisdictions, the most notorious being the 1572 St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre, when the French king ordered the murder of all Protestants in France
(7)Inquistions
(8)Rwandan Genocide
(9) forced subjugation of most of the known world by christians
(10) forced conversion of thousands throughout the world to christianity

All im trying to say is that your faith is not any better then any other faith in this world. Im sick and tired of listening to christians who think they come from this great, super peaceful loving religion when the religion the follow has done horrible, evil things… You want to know the answer i get from christians most of the time…" Those people werent true christians!" What is that! Of course they were christians… TEXT DELETED You christians are not any better then any other people in the world… Your just as bad.

And i will say that the religion that Jesus and his apostles preached was a religion of peace… Sad to say though that that form of christianity died a very long time ago… it died somewhere around the deaths of the apostles. The christian religion that is followed after them was not the religion preached by jesus, it was a religion preached by people who made all of the doctrines… and therefor it became a religion of ignorance in many cases just like the rest.

 

[Mike_D30]

moses8472:

that most modern day christians are DRUG ADDICTS, HAVING SEX ALL THE TIME, GETTING DRUNK ALL THE TIME, AND MORE! You christians are not any better then any other people in the world… Your just as bad.
.

Really??? WOW I didn’t realize all 1.5 Billion Christians were drug addict drunks having sex all the time.

I would love to see how you came to this hateful conclusion.

 

[ChristsSoldier]

Be Blessed,
If we can agree that the violence the Christians commited was wrong in the past (you’ll get no arguement from me our my Pope for that matter), can we agree that today’s violence is wrong too Moses?
Again the major difference here was that ‘most’ christians justified their violent acts outside of their doctrin…
Is the violence today wrong? Let us start there…
Peace,
CS

 

[brotherhrolf]

moses8472:

here are many of the evils done my christians in the world my friend (which dates back very very far):

(1)In Northern Europe, Norse pagans were the subject of much religious intolerance from Christians. The priests were killed, temples torn down and the followers persecuted and killed.

Ah, yes. This no doubt accounts for the medieval prayer “Oh Lord, from the fury of the Norsemen, deliver us.” How then does one explain the burning and sacking of monasteries such as Lindisfarne and the raping, looting, and pillaging of cities like Paris. Must have been because of those vicious warrior monks and armed medieval peasants. Gee I never knew that the militant orders existed so far back in the Dark Ages or that they were the ones who originated the blood eagle.

Oh, yes. The Vatican assaults on the peaceful Goths, Visigoths, Ostrogoths and Vandals as they peacefully migrated their way across Europe. I’m certain that the standing Vatican army of the time was responsible for this.

Please tell me where your historical information comes from. Every one of my medieval history books (and I have quite a few) indicates something completely different. If you are so wrong about the information you post about the Dark Ages, could it be that any other historical information you post is wrong as well?

What next? Islam did not spread out of Saudi Arabia, conquering all of north Africa and Spain? That they weren’t turned back by Charles Martel at Poitiers and Tours? That this wasn’t an invasion bringing fire and the sword? Give all of us a break!

 

[Mike_D30]

brotherhrolf:

Oh, yes. The Vatican assaults on the peaceful Goths, Visigoths, Ostrogoths and Vandals as they peacefully migrated their way across Europe.

Classic, those peace loving Visigoths and Vandals…

I can picture 800 years from now, someone posting how Americans were terrible for fighting those Nazis, and killing thousands of them.

 

[inJESUS]

hey Mussa oops Moses, you obviously found nothing in the NT that has anything to do with violence…so whatever bad things the so-called “christians” did , it is obviously because people are sinful and NOT because the Bible condones it…so for the last time, save us these silly arguments coz they make you look foolish with all your lols that prove how hopeless you are…cool down.

 

[Muslima]

cocot:

Muslima, you are right about some moslems being away from islam either by ignorance or choosing to ignore surra and hadith.
These are called MODERATE moslems. As I am sure you know any conservative religious moslem believes the koran, surra and hadith about infidels the dhimma the polytheist, jizya, chewing kat, temporary marriage, female circumcsion, beating their wives, the prophets marriage to a 9 year old, jinns, the sun setting into a mud pit, 90 foot Adam, the kabaa turning black from a menstruating womans touch, satanic verses, the kookie scientific proofs, the wacky math that is used to figure inheritance , jews being desendants of apes and pigs, abrogation of verses, the strategies of tarqyia and kitman, predestination, all the books of the bible being corrupted and on and on and on and on…

Dear Cocot,

Peace be upon you. I beleive that you have used a very right word MODERATE. You know this word is the core of our religion.
Allah Almighty said in Quran:
2:143: " We have made you a moderate nation, so that you my testify against mankind and that your own apostle may testify upon you."
I beleive that most of the christians do not know that throughout 14 centuries most Islamic scholars gave Islam another name alternative synonym to Islam. This name is Religion of moderation. You have just mixed things, the moderate moslems who are the majority of muslims who stick to Quran and Sunna are not against any body, they are peace advocators and they are not terrorists because Quran and Sunna does not provoke killing and hatred. We still have two other extremes rather than these moderate majority. We have very prejudiced extreemists who bomb themselves, and who kill other oposers to them (by the way they kill moslems also) of course these are not the guidelines of Allah or the commandments of Prophet Mohammed May God’s blessings be upon him. These terrorists do this under the name of Islam and Gihad, but I beleive that this group Like Usama Bin Laden, Ayman Al Zawahry and others are not truly Moslems, they are the outcome of 150 years between Islam and the West. Don’t forget that since 150 years Moslem contries were colonized by Western countries, Their Khaliva was prosecuted and Khelava was cancelled forever. People in Moslem countries were left under colonization to poverty and ignorrance, These conditions may raise an outcome of anger for any person not for a Moslem in particular, sometimes this anger takes a very forious shape and it turns to a destructive way of thinking, I am not here justifying the works of terrorism, I am just trying to explain why there are some Moslems nowadays who turn to terrorists. This is one extreme, the other extreme we have as moslems are those moslems who are only born to found themselves Moslems by name. They do not bother themselves to obey God or to be rightious persons.

The moderate moslems whom I consider myself one of them obey Quran and Hadith, but we find nothing in them about killing people or violating any one rights, and let me explain to you on following replies all that you asked about because I beleive I have convincing answers for all you have asked about.As I am entering in this forum aiming one major thing: I find that most western people now are disrespecting Islam, i am trying to make a peaceful talk about my religion as I wish only that christian brothers and sisters who are here in such a forum are supposed to be truly beleivers and have a broad mind to accept discussion that aims at the end to make christians have a more respectful look for Islam.
Peace be upon you all
Muslema

 

[inJESUS]

Muslima:

Dear Cocot,

Peace be upon you. I beleive that you have used a very right word MODERATE. You know this word is the core of our religion.
Allah Almighty said in Quran:
2:143: " We have made you a moderate nation, so that you my testify against mankind and that your own apostle may testify upon you."

Dear Muslima, moderate is written in arabic Ummat al Wasat which means Nation of the Middle…the question is: middle of what? the response is in the quran : the nation between those who rejected Jesus ( kafaru) and those who made him God ( ghalu )…so Islam is the nation between judaism and true Christianity…it has nothing to do with the word “moderation”.

 

[inJESUS]

Muslima:

Dear Cocot,

The moderate moslems whom I consider myself one of them obey Quran and Hadith, but we find nothing in them about killing people or violating any one rights, and let me explain to you on following replies all that you asked about because I beleive I have convincing answers for all you have asked about.As I am entering in this forum aiming one major thing: I find that most western people now are disrespecting Islam, i am trying to make a peaceful talk about my religion as I wish only that christian brothers and sisters who are here in such a forum are supposed to be truly beleivers and have a broad mind to accept discussion that aims at the end to make christians have a more respectful look for Islam.
Peace be upon you all
Muslema

Abu Musa’ reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your RESCUE from Hell-Fire. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6665)

Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit IN HIS STEAD a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. 'Umar b. Abd al-'Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father had narrated that to him from Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him). (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6666)

Abu Burda reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with AS HEAVY SINS AS A MOUNTAIN, and Allah would FORGIVE THEM and He would PLACE IN THEIR STEAD the Jews and the Christians. (As far as I think), Abu Raub said: I do not know as to who is in doubt. Abu Burda said: I narrated it to 'Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz, whereupon he said: Was it your father who narrated it to you from Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him)? I said: Yes. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6668)

and we should respect islam, dear Muslima?

 

[Muslima]

inJESUS:

Muslima:

Dear Cocot,

Dear Muslima, moderate is written in arabic Ummat al Wasat which means Nation of the Middle…the question is: middle of what? the response is in the quran : the nation between those who rejected Jesus ( kafaru) and those who made him God ( ghalu )…so Islam is the nation between judaism and true Christianity…it has nothing to do with the word “moderation”.

Dear In Jesus,
Peace be upon you,
You are tackling a very good point that I was going to talk about but later, but as long as you have asked, let me explain.
Islam is cosidered the religion of wasat as you said which is translated to moderate / middle / mid point. As Islam is considered the middle of many extremes. Yes we consider Islam is in a mid way between Christians and Jews, but not because they are wrong , as we do beleive in all scripture books as I told before, The Islamic vision sees that both christianity and Jewish are two different religion opposing to each other. Jews are totally indulged in materialism and worldly benefit, even in their dealing with their religious rituals, they do it from the point of view of benefit (what is in it for me?), Christianity is on the contrary, as christians are very spiritual, their ultimate is to forsake the world with its evil, and to abandon all worldly pleasures for spiritual happiness. So, from this point of view we consider that Islam is in a mid way between both religions. As Islam asks people to make equilibrium between both material and spiritual things.

Brother,
I do not intend by this to convince anyone that any religion is better than another. Of course, everyone of us finds his/her religion is the best, I am only trying to clear the false images taken about Islam.
Peace be Upon You
Moslema

 

[Muslima]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Peace be Upon You,

Many of you ask about Dhimma and Jizzia. Dhimma is not submission to Moslems or losing any pride. Islam is a religion that organized and tackled every point in life, one of these tackled issues is the concept of Ummah or nation. In an Islamic nation or country, of course there will be two main groups of people Moslems and Non Moslems. Both have rights in the soceity and also have duties. The Islam was the only religion to have an economical view before all the economists of the world. The economical resources of any nation comes for many sources one of these sources are taxes.So in the Islamic concept, Moslems pay Zakat and (Alms Tax) and Non Moslems pay Jizzia. The Zakat in the islamic prospective is different from the charity payments we give to the poor, as charity payment is something between the person and God, I can give a poor man a dollar or 100 dollars or a shelter or food, this is one other thing our religion orders us to do, but this is given in secret to the poor, only God knows about it, and I think also christianity is the same because it aske people to be charitable to the poor. However Zakat is another issue it is a determined percentage that should be paid by the rich (Islam clearly identifies who are considered to be rich), this money is collected in something called Bait El Mal (Treasury House) The ways in which the money in the Treasury house is spent are strictly difined in Quran. This money is spent mainly on helping the poor (helping those who can not get married to marry, helping unemployed, supporting orphans and widows, paying debts for those who can not pay etc…, ) and for social work (digging wells, building streets and towns etc…) and for preparing armies to defend the countries in the time of Wars.Rich Non Moslems pay their shares too.They pay Jezzia to Bait El Mal, they can not pay Zakat because Zakat is not a social or patriotic payment for the Moslems, it is one of the commandments of GOD. The LORD will judge any Moslem who can pay the Zakat and did not pay it. Its part of our belief, it is paid on religious basis. But Non Moslems paid the Jizzia to be used for the same purposes but the differnce is that they are not paying it out of a religious belief, they pay it as patriots living in the same nations. In return to this, Non Moslems should have the same rights: If a Non Moslem is poor or is facing a financial problem Bait EL Mal helps him / her. Non Moslems throughout 13 centuries had the same treatment of Moslems, they lived brothers and sisters of the same country, they respected the religions of each other. No church or temple through the age of the Islamic nation was destroyed, we never knew throughout the Age Of the Islamic rule that monks were presecuted or that christian religion men were condemned. They were free to perform their religion rituals. By the way this goes in most Moslem countries till today. I have christian friends and neighbours, we congratulate each other on our feasts, we go to church with them if they have a wedding or funeral, they come to our mosques in same situations. In christmas, we buy them gifts, they do the same in our Eid.

The dhimma concept is an economical concept, it does not mean that non moslems are second degree patriots, it is a gurantee that they will get the same rights the Moslems will have as long as they do the same duties. If a non Moslem is poor or unable to pay the Jizzia, then he/ she pays no jizzia, he gets aid from Bait El Mal, I think this economical idea is almost applied in most countries today. All the people living in a country pays their taxes, contributes to the Government, in return the Government secures some services.
The translation of word dhimma is : custody, security, safeguard, guarantee, agreement

I beleive that if Moslems were blood sheders, they would not have let Non Moslems from the first place to live in their countries, or to build their churches, or any thing of the like, they would have simply killed or banished them from their countries during the years when Moslems were in power to do that since centuries ago.

Peace be upon you
Muslema