Islam

[pleaseanswer]

inJESUS:

sure bro…the evidences they gave are not the truth? if not, can you provide them in arabic please?

Brother inJesus,

The religion of Moslem is not a hidden somewhere in Arab land. More moslems are in non-Arab land than in entire Arab countries.

Their holy books including the Koran is in public for some fourteen centuries.

Just like Catholicism is what the Catholic version of the Bible and RCC officially teaches, Moslem relgion too is what their holy oepn books say.

Instead of listening to 7th day Adventists or JWs or some other anti-Catholic people, it is fair to read Catholics from their own perspective.

You are asking me to provide those items carefully selected to mistranslate and twist by the site like MEMRI to deceive non-Arabic non-Moslem people, is not a fair request because as I said, Moslem’s holy relgious books and their views are OPEN and in PUBLIC for 14 centuries.

All you need is consult a learned Moslem scholar or go to an authentic Moslem site of English, such as www.islam.org
or www.muslimsonline.com

.

 

[inJESUS]

pleaseanswer:

Brother inJesus,

The religion of Moslem is not a hidden somewhere in Arab land. More moslems are in non-Arab land than in entire Arab countries.

Their holy books including the Koran is in public for some fourteen centuries.

Just like Catholicism is what the Catholic version of the Bible and RCC officially teaches, Moslem relgion too is what their holy oepn books say.

Instead of listening to 7th day Adventists or JWs or some other anti-Catholic people, it is fair to read Catholics from their own perspective.

You are asking me to provide those items carefully selected to mistranslate and twist by the site like MEMRI to deceive non-Arabic non-Moslem people, is not a fair request because as I said, Moslem’s holy relgious books and their views are OPEN and in PUBLIC for 14 centuries.

All you need is consult a learned Moslem scholar or go to an authentic Moslem site of English, such as www.islam.org
or www.muslimsonline.com

.

what is your point exactly? that indeed some jews were turned into apes? or it could be metaphorical? i need to know this in order to rearrange my thoughts over the matter.

 

[Eden]

pleaseanswer:

Brother inJesus,

The religion of Moslem is not a hidden somewhere in Arab land. More moslems are in non-Arab land than in entire Arab countries.

Their holy books including the Koran is in public for some fourteen centuries.

Just like Catholicism is what the Catholic version of the Bible and RCC officially teaches, Moslem relgion too is what their holy oepn books say.

Instead of listening to 7th day Adventists or JWs or some other anti-Catholic people, it is fair to read Catholics from their own perspective.

You are asking me to provide those items carefully selected to mistranslate and twist by the site like MEMRI to deceive non-Arabic non-Moslem people, is not a fair request because as I said, Moslem’s holy relgious books and their views are OPEN and in PUBLIC for 14 centuries.

All you need is consult a learned Moslem scholar or go to an authentic Moslem site of English, such as www.islam.org
or www.muslimsonline.com

.

Pleaseanswer, are you fluent in Arabic? If so, have you read the entire Quran in Arabic? I’m just wondering how you know which translations are accurate and which are not. I am at a great disadvantage not knowing the language myself.

 

[Muslima]

inJESUS:

Let me clarify one thing Muslima, if you are here to claim that quran/mohammad/allah respect Christians and promises them heaven or whatever, i’ll keep refuting you coz you obviously do NOT recognize the difference between nasara and Christians in quran coz mohammad himself failed to recognize them…so either there are contradictions in quran, or Christians are NOT the nasara…so any claim that the quran respects us will be refuted badly…but if you are here to say that you as muslims respect us regardless of quran, then you are welcome, but you’ll be negating the quran teachings ( out of humanitarian feelings)…yet if this is your view, then you are most welcome…if not, am afraid i’ll keep refuting your claims.

Dear Brother In Jesus,
Surely Quran respected christians and promises the Good ones of them who followed the right path with heaven,
5.69: “Believers, Jews, Sabaean, or Christians- whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does what is right shall have nothing to fear or to regret.”

Islam came and considerd Mary, the most virtous Lady ever, we call her " Sayedat Nesaa Alalamin" this is " The Best Lady in the world" Islam came to declare her innocent from what the jews had accused her of.
3:42" And remember the angel’s words to Mary. He said: Allah has chosewn you. He has made you pure and exalted you above all women. This is an account of what is hidden. We reveal it to you. You were not present when they cast lots to see which of them should have charge of Mary; nor were you present when they urged about her. The angels said to Mary: “Allah bids you rejoice in a Word of Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He shall be noble in this world and in the next, and shall be favoured by Allah. He shall preach to men in his cradle and in the prime of manhood, and shall lead a righteous life. Lord, She said, how can I bear a child when no man has touched me ? He replied: such is the will of Allah. He creates whom He will. When he decrees a thing he need only say: " Be,” and it is. He will instruct him in the scriptures and in wisdom, in the Torah and in the Gospel."

I am here respecting you and your religion as mu religion asks me to do.

Brother In Jesus,
I see that you are trying to lead me to none fruitful arguments, you are getting what you are saying either from sites made by zionists or enemies of Islam, or you are misinterpretting verses or you do not know the reasons of its coming. Or may be you are just a severe hater to Islam as I see that most of your writings in this forum is only dedicated to Moslems. Any way i can send you names of books written about Islam and Muhammad that takes an objective prospect, some of these books are written by christians.
Muslema

 

[Muslima]

Eden:

Pleaseanswer, are you fluent in Arabic? If so, have you read the entire Quran in Arabic? I’m just wondering how you know which translations are accurate and which are not. I am at a great disadvantage not knowing the language myself.

Dear Pleaseananswer,
Peace be upon you,
I can tell you of an honest translation of Quran, try this site:
www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran

It has honest translation with some coments, if you find something difficult to acquire, i will be pleased to explain.
Peace be upon you
Muslema

 

[inJESUS]

Concerning the torment for non beleivers: God does not order us to torment non beleivers, He promises them that he will torment them Himself in Hell on Doomsday, (I beleive christianity says the same). This is his judge upon them because they do not beleive in Him.

are you sure? what about this:

**Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection (9:29). **

arent moslems supposed to fight these people here ON EARTH?

Concerning being non friends to the un beleivers, the Ayat about this clearly means pegans, and those with no religion, and Islam order us not to be Awlia with them (Awlia means intimate friends) but it does not order us to kill them.

NO it doesnt mean pagans.

it says “unbelievers”…who are they? they are non-moslems whether pagans or not.
is there a verse asking you to be friends with non-believers?

As for the verse of not to be friends to jews and nasara, I beleive that as long as you know arabic you now what Asbab Al Nozoul is. This tells us about the reason why every aya was delivered for, because their are some ayas that came for very specific reasons.This aya was delivered fro Allah because Proghet had a treaty with the people of scripture who where living with him in Madina, but they ignored this treaty and conspired to kill him, the Moslems had two opinions, an opinion says they were on a treaty with them, and that they have some benefits with them like buying and selling and so on… Another opinion said that they betrayed the treaty with the prophet and tried to kill him and accordingly they should be banished or killed. The aya came with the judge of Allah, it asked the Moslems to stop being Awlia the book of scriptures which means stop dealing with them for that particular situation, not for all jews and christians, and if this is true as you claim, how can you think of all the Moslems who lived for 1300 years with christians as neighbours and friends, of course they were not disobeying God all of them. Even the Khaliva Salladin who fought the Crusades when they tried to invade the East, his Chief Commandor and best friend was a christian.

ironically, i heard the explanation of this verse 3 monthes ago by a mufti…the verse applies NOW AS WELL. Thats why muslims want to apply sharia wherever they go coz when they are ruled by non-moslems, they wont be able to apply their ways of lives…the term awliya means authorities as well.

Whether in context or not, the message of peace is not there in quran…maybe you should find us verses that talk about loving non-believers…not killing non-believers just like the Bible does.

 

[pleaseanswer]

inJESUS:

what is your point exactly? that indeed some jews were turned into apes? or it could be metaphorical? i need to know this in order to rearrange my thoughts over the matter.

What I found out from reading their Koran and asking questions direct to them, is just like how in Christ’s time there was a group who opposed Christ’s ministry, mission and his Messiahship, despite being from high learned class (i.e., Scribes and the Pharisees), there was a group among the Jews when transgressed God’s clear commandments, God asked them/ordered them to be like apes and pigs

And it is possible that some of them might have transformed literally into the form of apes and pigs, as they gave lot of trouble to even their own righteous Prophets and even killed them.

It is not a surprising statement or event as described in the Koran of Moslems. That specific evil group of Jews might have indeed become literally apes/pigs. If God can can give power to Christ to heal sick, raise people from the dead (as we know from the Holy Bible:Christ was a man approved of God by miracles and wonders, which God did by Him) then why it is not conceivable that some of his most staunch enemies from the Jews, might have turned into apes/pigs and then they might have died soon after their punishment of transformation.

For God, everything is possible and He does what He Wills and He is not bound by our expectations or imaginations or rules and regulations nor He is bound by even His own law that He placed in His whole creation. He does, as He Wills.

.

 

[Eden]

Muslima:

Dear Pleaseananswer,
Peace be upon you,
I can tell you of an honest translation of Quran, try this site:
www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran

It has honest translation with some coments, if you find something difficult to acquire, i will be pleased to explain.
Peace be upon you
Muslema

Thanks! That link gives three different translations for each part for comparison. That is very useful.

 

[inJESUS]

Dear Brother In Jesus,
Surely Quran respected christians and promises the Good ones of them who followed the right path with heaven,
5.69: “Believers, Jews, Sabaean, or Christians- whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does what is right shall have nothing to fear or to regret.”

you still dont get it…i showed you the quranic verses on us Christians who believe Jesus is the Son of God and it clearly states that we are cursed…this is because either the quran has contradictions, or mohammad did not differentiate between Christians and nasara. So please do not beat about the bush and lets not waste more time on this,quran NEITHER RESPECTS ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS NOR PROMISES THEM HEAVEN.

Islam came and considerd Mary, the most virtous Lady ever, we call her " Sayedat Nesaa Alalamin" this is " The Best Lady in the world" Islam came to declare her innocent from what the jews had accused her of.
3:42" And remember the angel’s words to Mary. He said: Allah has chosewn you. He has made you pure and exalted you above all women. This is an account of what is hidden. We reveal it to you. You were not present when they cast lots to see which of them should have charge of Mary; nor were you present when they urged about her. The angels said to Mary: “Allah bids you rejoice in a Word of Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He shall be noble in this world and in the next, and shall be favoured by Allah. He shall preach to men in his cradle and in the prime of manhood, and shall lead a righteous life. Lord, She said, how can I bear a child when no man has touched me ? He replied: such is the will of Allah. He creates whom He will. When he decrees a thing he need only say: " Be,” and it is. He will instruct him in the scriptures and in wisdom, in the Torah and in the Gospel."

you need to read the thread about parallilism in quran and Bible on page 2…THIS PASSAGE IS NOT IN THE BIBLE BUT IN AN APOCRYPHAL BIBLE WRITTEN IN THE 2ND CENTURY.

I am here respecting you and your religion as mu religion asks me to do.

iIT DOES NOT.

Brother In Jesus,
I see that you are trying to lead me to none fruitful arguments, you are getting what you are saying either from sites made by zionists or enemies of Islam, or you are misinterpretting verses or you do not know the reasons of its coming. Or may be you are just a severe hater to Islam as I see that most of your writings in this forum is only dedicated to Moslems. Any way i can send you names of books written about Islam and Muhammad that takes an objective prospect, some of these books are written by christians.

no…i read the quran myself and i read muslim sites as well…my hatred for islam is because it is heretic and mohammad is an anti-Christ as per the Bible…and as i said, the quran does NOT respect us…if you do, good, but please do not say the quran does.

 

[inJESUS]

pleaseanswer:

What I found out from reading their Koran and asking questions direct to them, is just like how in Christ’s time there was a group who opposed Christ’s ministry, mission and his Messiahship, despite being from high learned class (i.e., Scribes and the Pharisees), there was a group among the Jews when transgressed God’s clear commandments, God asked them/ordered them to be like apes and pigs

And it is possible that some of them might have transformed literally into the form of apes and pigs, as they gave lot of trouble to even their own righteous Prophets and even killed them.

It is not a surprising statement or event as described in the Koran of Moslems. That specific evil group of Jews might have indeed become literally apes/pigs. If God can can give power to Christ to heal sick, raise people from the dead (as we know from the Holy Bible:Christ was a man approved of God by miracles and wonders, which God did by Him) then why it is not conceivable that some of his most staunch enemies from the Jews, might have turned into apes/pigs and then they might have died soon after their punishment of transformation.

For God, everything is possible and He does what He Wills and He is not bound by our expectations or imaginations or rules and regulations nor He is bound by even His own law that He placed in His whole creation. He does, as He Wills.

.

Do you believe that Jesus is God incarnate?

 

[pleaseanswer]

Dear inJesus and Eden,
You aslo MUST keep in mind that anti_arab and anti_moslems sites like MEMRI are not considered authentic even among all the groups of Jews. And not all Jews of our period are in favour of a seperate land for Jews. the theology of Jews makes them to wait until their Messiah comes and it for him to give them the right they deserve.

Most Jews see Zionists as political jews who misuse Judaic law to create an unjust state for Jews, which is in their eyes against their theology.

Now if these political Zionists can pervert their own religious theology for material gains, they can also mistranslate/twist the Arab Media to suit their agenda of creating hatred among non-Arab Western people for moslems. And that’s what sites like MEMRI do and doing.

But those Jews who are sincere and seekers of truth, never pay attention to these type of deceptive sites. So, as we see Jews too are embracing Moslem religion by seeking the true and direct first-hand knowledge from Moslems or they atleast stop hating Moslem when they keep the right perspective of Moslems in their eyes.

An honest research not only elevate your spiritual position even in your enemy’s eye, it can even guide you to right path and peace.

 

[inJESUS]

pleaseanswer:

Dear inJesus and Eden,
You aslo MUST keep in mind that anti_arab and anti_moslems sites like MEMRI are not considered authentic even among all the groups of Jews. And not all Jews of our period are in favour of a seperate land for Jews. the theology of Jews makes them to wait until their Messiah comes and it for him to give them the right they deserve.

Most Jews see Zionists as political jews who misuse Judaic law to create an unjust state for Jews, which is in their eyes against their theology.

Now if these political Zionists can pervert their own religious theology for material gains, they can also mistranslate/twist the Arab Media to suit their agenda of creating hatred among non-Arab Western people for moslems. And that’s what sites like MEMRI do and doing.

But those Jews who are sincere and seekers of truth, never pay attention to these type of deceptive sites. So, as we see Jews too are embracing Moslem religion by seeking the true and direct first-hand knowledge from Moslems or they atleast stop hating Moslem when they keep the right perspective of Moslems in their eyes.

An honest research not only elevate your spiritual position even in your enemy’s eye, it can even guide you to right path and peace.

do you think we really care about some jews being turned to pigs tale? it was a digression…muslim hadith say they were literally turned to apes…it’s funny idea but who cares?

 

[pleaseanswer]

inJESUS:

Do you believe that Jesus is God incarnate?

No, because neither Holy Bible nor Koran of the Moslems tells us.
As I said, God does whaever HE Wills, and not what we want Him to become or like to see. When I said for God everything is possible, it does not mean, whatever we think God should become. He is not bound by our (creatures’) expectations.

God’s Wisdom, his Knowledge, his Possibilities are ONLY KNOWN to HIM alone. We came to know only those things, that He revealed to His choosen people among us. And whatever He revealed is not His FULL KNOWLEDGE because we are His creatures and we cannot grasp His FULL KNOWLEDGE, thus there is no question of God becoming a man/incarnation. For, God is not a man. And the Father (metaphorically) is Greater than Jesus, says the Holy Bible.

.

 

[inJESUS]

pleaseanswer:

No, because neither Holy Bible nor Koran of the Moslems tells us.
As I said, God does whaever HE Wills, and not what we want Him to become or like to see. When I said for God everything is possible, it does not mean, whatever we think God should become. He is not bound by our (creatures’) expectations.

God’s Wisdom, his Knowledge, his Possibilities are ONLY KNOWN to HIM alone. We came to know only those things, that He revealed to His choosen people among us. And whatever He revealed is not His FULL KNOWLEDGE because we are His creatures and we cannot grasp His FULL KNOWLEDGE, thus there is no question of God becoming a man/incarnation. For, God is not a man. And the Father (metaphorically) is Greater than Jesus, says the Holy Bible.

.

Listen Muslim, it is very easy for me to “smell” a muslim mindset…please do not state your religion as “Protestant” and give us muslim arguments; this is called Taqiyya and qitman, in other words LYING JUST AS YOUR PROPHET TAUGHT YOU

 

[inJESUS]

No, because neither Holy Bible nor Koran of the Moslems tells us.

As Christians, whether Catholic or Protestants, we do not believe in quran as a holy book, nor mohammad as a prophet but as a false prophet and anti-Christ as per the Bible…so to take mohammads opinion is heretical .

As I said, God does whaever HE Wills, and not what we want Him to become or like to see.

jews did not expect to see God incarnate yet it was jews who taught this.

When I said for God everything is possible, it does not mean, whatever we think God should become. He is not bound by our (creatures’) expectations.

since everything is possible, then God CAN take a human form yet retain all his divinity as God…100% God, 100% human…to say otherwise is to limit God.

God’s Wisdom, his Knowledge, his Possibilities are ONLY KNOWN to HIM alone. We came to know only those things

, that He revealed to His choosen people among us surely not to someone like mohammad who contradicts Jesus in every aspect of life and teachings.

. And whatever He revealed is not His FULL KNOWLEDGE because we are His creatures and we cannot grasp His FULL KNOWLEDGE, thus there is no question of God becoming a man/incarnation.

irrelevant…God can become a human yet not reveal his full knowledge to us.

For, God is not a man. And the Father (metaphorically) is Greater than Jesus, says the Holy Bible.

because the Father is not flesh but Jesus was flesh as well…yet I and the Father are ONE…Who has seen me has seen the Father…no one knows the Father except the Son and no one knows the Son except the Father…why do you call me Good? only God is good…I AM THE **GOOD **SHEPHEARD.

OFFENSIVE COMMENT REMOVED

 

[pleaseanswer]

inJESUS:

do you think we really care about some jews being turned to pigs tale? it was a digression…muslim hadith say they were literally turned to apes…it’s funny idea but who cares?

Well, dear inJesus, in the Holy Bible there are numerous things which can be taken easily by other people as totally meaningless, irrelevant and would say “who cares if Judah of Jewish race, went to Gaza and slept with his own daughter in law–Tamar–thinking she must be a prostitute and then if Tamar begets twins (Perez and Zerah) who are inserted into the geneology of Jesus Christ in the Gosple.?”

Then what happened to Judah when he had illegal sex with Tamar and for making her pregnant of twins? Did God or society punished him? There is no description in the Bible. And Judah was a holy man.

Besides, there are plenty of half-told stories or references in the Bible.

But atleast the Koran’s reference to a specific transgressing group of Jews turning into apes/pigs, is a reminder to us, that going against God’s Will and Commandments can cause severe punishment either in this world or in the Afterlife.

.

 

[inJESUS]

Well, dear inJesus, in the Holy Bible there are numerous things which can be taken easily by other people as totally meaningless, irrelevant and would say “who cares if Judah of Jewish race, went to Gaza and slept with his own daughter in law–Tamar–thinking she must be a prostitute and then if Tamar begets twins (Perez and Zerah) who are inserted into the geneology of Jesus Christ in the Gosple.?”

Then what happened to Judah when he had illegal sex with Tamar and for making her pregnant of twins? Did God or society punished him? There is no description in the Bible. And Judah was a holy man.

Besides, there are plenty of half-told stories or references in the Bible

. the Bible is the origin …it is the quran that lacks many details that are only found in the Bible…furthermore, the quran has many historical errors, in addition to many jewish/christian legends…go to the thread parallelism in page 2 and read them coz obviously you havent done it.

But atleast the Koran’s reference to a specific transgressing group of Jews turning into apes/pigs, is a reminder to us, that going against God’s Will and Commandments can cause severe punishment either in this world or in the Afterlife.

and why arent people nowadays turned into apes? was it only for that time-period? if yes, then it is no threat anymore, and people wont be turned to apes and lizards and rats anymore…that’s in hinduism i guess.

.

 

[pleaseanswer]

inJESUS:

As Christians, whether Catholic or Protestants, we do not believe in quran as a holy book, nor mohammad as a prophet but as a false prophet and anti-Christ as per the Bible…so to take mohammads opinion is heretical …

I am a Protestant in the sense, that I protest any teachings that makes no sense.

Martin Luther was a Protestant because he protested RCC’s views thus he was excommunicated by the then RCC because in RCC’s view, Luther was a Protestor. But was he a totally ignorant of Christianity/Holy Bible?? You should ask this question to yourself.

Not all Protestants are alike.

Some protestants say Rome is a harlot/whore…that is their protestation’s result

Some protestants say Pope is actually an anti-Christ, again thats their protestation’s result.

As you see whoever protests against any dogma/view/teaching/concept, he is a protestent. So am I.

You too are a protestant in the eyes of those denominations existed prior to the RCC.

So, what you are saying is NOT THE SOLUTION to any DILEMMA/PROBLEM. You just want to live in your own world of “protestation” thinking all other/rest of the world must be stupid and non-sense and ONLY you are on the right path. This is not what a godly person should do.

.

 

[inJESUS]

To conclude with Muslima :

THE quran says this about Christians ( although, mistakingly, using the term nasara):

“And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before;** may Allah destroy them; how they are perverted!”**

Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium [Mary - “Jesus is the messiah”]; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust

First, we do not say God is the Messiah, an error by muhammad.
Second, we are called disbelievers, perverted and unjust and we will burn in hell.

So please Muslima, for the last time, the quran does NOT respect us Christians neither promises us anything except fire. So save us the “quran respects you stuff” . If you do, good but it’d be out of humanity feelings not according to quran.

 

[inJESUS]

pleaseanswer:

inJESUS:

I am a Protestant in the sense, that I protest any teachings that makes no sense.

Martin Luther was a Protestant because he protested RCC’s views thus he was excommunicated by the then RCC because in RCC’s view, Luther was a Protestor. But was he a totally ignorant of Christianity/Holy Bible?? You should ask this question to yourself.

Not all Protestants are alike.

Some protestants say Rome is a harlot/whore…that is their protestation’s result

Some protestants say Pope is actually an anti-Christ, again thats their protestation’s result.

As you see whoever protests against any dogma/view/teaching/concept, he is a protestent. So am I.

You too are a protestant in the eyes of those denominations existed prior to the RCC.

So, what you are saying is NOT THE SOLUTION to any DILEMMA/PROBLEM. You just want to live in your own world of “protestation” thinking all other/rest of the world must be stupid and non-sense and ONLY you are on the right path. This is not what a godly person should do.

.

Listen buddy,

First : you can camouflage your religion the way you like, but it is called Islam.
Second, i did not debate Catholic vs Protestants so your point is useless.
Third, am taking Bible/quran : according to the Holy Bible, mohammad is a false prophet and an anti-Christ and the quran is nothing but heresies from a spirit that is not from God.

Reading the nazaritic heretical teachings, i found them all in quran. I gave a link to Muslima, you might read it as well if you care about history.