Islamic Aims in Europe

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mpav:
While the Catholic clergy speak about ways to dialogue with Islam, Islamic clergy continue to bluster about the conquest of Europe.

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I wonder how many Muslims are in Hell thanks to Mohammed. :confused:
 
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Franze:
Yes, We know, but what to do, praying is the unique solution and having confidence in Jesus. We have to leave in God and embrace our cross, the cross of our times islamism and securalism.
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Why such a defeatist attitude?
 
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mpav:
While the Catholic clergy speak about ways to dialogue with Islam, Islamic clergy continue to bluster about the conquest of Europe.

frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=17710
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And why shouldn’t they feel triumphant? They’re taking over Europe because formerly Christian Europe is dying. Through immigration, and the fact that not one European country is reproducing itself, the continent will be well on the way to being predominantly Muslim within 50 years. The Muslims are having the babies; the Europeans are not. It’s that simple.

BTW, the threat to the US from Muslim enclaves in Europe is greater than the threat from Muslims in Iraq. So what is the wisdom of our foreign policy?
 
I suggest we have much wisdom in our policy. If a democratic Iraq leads the way for the rest of the region, Muslims might find themselves staying home rather than emigrating to non-Muslim countries looking for a better life. As the region grows more prosperous, (which I believe it will, once leaders stop spending money on remaining in power and start allowing improved living conditions) the Muslims will become more secular, like the rest of the world. Then Muslims will find fewer soldier for suicide bombings.
As for Muslim enclaves in Europe, what should our foreign policy be? If the Dutch and French tolerate unassimilated immigrant populations to grow in size and in demands, what should the U.S. do? We can’t dictate to Europeans. They seem to think we should be following their lead.
 
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mpav:
I suggest we have much wisdom in our policy. If a democratic Iraq leads the way for the rest of the region, Muslims might find themselves staying home rather than emigrating to non-Muslim countries looking for a better life. As the region grows more prosperous, (which I believe it will, once leaders stop spending money on remaining in power and start allowing improved living conditions) the Muslims will become more secular, like the rest of the world. Then Muslims will find fewer soldier for suicide bombings.
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Although only 2 letters in length, the word if is mighty big. A truly democratic and sovereign Iraq (as opposed to a U.S. puppet regime) would become a Shiite Islamic state, IMHO.
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mpav:
As for Muslim enclaves in Europe, what should our foreign policy be? If the Dutch and French tolerate unassimilated immigrant populations to grow in size and in demands, what should the U.S. do? We can’t dictate to Europeans. They seem to think we should be following their lead.
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Briefly, our foreign policy re Muslim enclaves in Europe should be:

A) Cooperate extensively with the security services in those countries (and stop the mindless French-bashing, btw).

We could also:

B) Begin the process of closing American military bases in every Islamic country where they exist. The American occupation of Iraq and the military presence in nearly every Muslim country has made the U.S. a big fat target for Muslim extremists. The vivid target must be removed. There is really no other way to end the terrorism.

C) Make it clear to Ariel Sharon that unless Israel agrees to return to the 1967 borders and withdraws the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, that Israel faces a complete and total cutoff of economic and military aid.

These are thumbnail points, obviously, but IMO the U.S. could pretty much end terrorism against it by Muslim extremists by adopting these measures.
 
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gnjsdad:
B) Begin the process of closing American military bases in every Islamic country where they exist. The American occupation of Iraq and the military presence in nearly every Muslim country has made the U.S. a big fat target for Muslim extremists. The vivid target must be removed.
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See September 11 attack? Islam extremist canttack us right in front of our home. so the best solution is asking every American to suicide to totally remove the target.
 
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mpav:
While the Catholic clergy speak about ways to dialogue with Islam, Islamic clergy continue to bluster about the conquest of Europe.

frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=17710
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Are all Christian Clergy unanimous in all issues all the time? Given some of the vitriol I have seen against Jesuits on this forum I think the clear answer is no. So why do the witterings of Wahabist cleric matter much. As you wise people who are so knowledgable about Islam already know the Wahabists are an extremist Saudi Sect with little worldwide support despite lavish funding from the Saudi Royal Family.

The source of this story is the Israeli outfit MEMRI who want the West to hate Muslims so they will turn a blind eye to the Likud land grab in the illegally occupied West Bank. See arabmediawatch.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=436

BTW the Catholic Clergy dialogue with Islam on the basis of the Sacred Synod Vatican II. They are being faithful to Catholicism, anti-Muslim bigotry is non-Catholic. See Nostra Aetate ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/v2non.htm
  1. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
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Code: 
   **Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom**.
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A) Cooperate extensively with the security services in those countries (and stop the mindless French-bashing, btw).
Do we not cooperate? And is French bashing mindless, when the French are pushing for the sale of weapons to China, despite the recent Chinese provocations with our allies?
The interests of the US are not always the same as those of France, which France has always been quick to point out, when her interests are not being served.
We could also:

B) Begin the process of closing American military bases in every Islamic country where they exist. The American occupation of Iraq and the military presence in nearly every Muslim country has made the U.S. a big fat target for Muslim extremists. The vivid target must be removed. There is really no other way to end the terrorism.
Will this stop terrorists? The terrorists who want the map of the world to look as it did at the high tide of Muslim ascendancy?

C) Make it clear to Ariel Sharon that unless Israel agrees to return to the 1967 borders and withdraws the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, that Israel faces a complete and total cutoff of economic and military aid
How does it help the U.S. to hand the one functioning democracy in the Middle East over to its enemies? The more concessions Israel makes, the more her enemies demand. Palestinians must accept peace on reasonable terms, not just demand the destruction of Israel.
 
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mpav:
A) Cooperate extensively with the security services in those countries (and stop the mindless French-bashing, btw).
Do we not cooperate?
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I think we do, for the most part. We could do without the condescending references by some in the administration to “old Europe”, though. The US needs to keep in mind that it has a vital interest in working with the governments of Western Europe in keeping tabs on Muslim militants who might want to do us harm. This means treating them as allies, not vassal states.
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mpav:
And is French bashing mindless, when the French are pushing for the sale of weapons to China, despite the recent Chinese provocations with our allies?
The interests of the US are not always the same as those of France, which France has always been quick to point out, when her interests are not being served.
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I just wish more Americans realized that. Many resent the French for acting in their own country’s perceived best interests in Iraq, as if it’s somehow illegitimate for them to do this.
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mpav:
B) Begin the process of closing American military bases in every Islamic country where they exist. The American occupation of Iraq and the military presence in nearly every Muslim country has made the U.S. a big fat target for Muslim extremists. The vivid target must be removed. There is really no other way to end the terrorism.
Will this stop terrorists? The terrorists who want the map of the world to look as it did at the high tide of Muslim ascendancy?
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There **are **some examples: when the British left Kenya in 1960; when the French left Algeria in 1962; when the British left Palestine in 1948; these are just a few instances of when an occupying power that was fighting a terrorist insurgency left the country of the insurgency and the terror tactics stopped.
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mpav:
C) Make it clear to Ariel Sharon that unless Israel agrees to return to the 1967 borders and withdraws the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, that Israel faces a complete and total cutoff of economic and military aid
How does it help the U.S. to hand the one functioning democracy in the Middle East over to its enemies? The more concessions Israel makes, the more her enemies demand. Palestinians must accept peace on reasonable terms, not just demand the destruction of Israel.
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If you were the Israelis, what concessions would you make? Or should Israel continue to be allowed to run roughshod over the Palestinians? Shouldn’t Israel accept peace on reasonable terms?
 
Originally posted by Matt25:-

BTW the Catholic Clergy dialogue with Islam on the basis of the Sacred Synod Vatican II. They are being faithful to Catholicism, anti-Muslim bigotry is non-Catholic. See Nostra Aetate ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/v2non.htm

I think this approach will be most fruitful, and reassuringly, it is endorsed by Vatican II as Matt points out. I’m also mindful (as a European of the English variety) of Bishop Fulton Sheen’s belief that Our Lady will play a pivotol role in the conversion of Islam.

Pope Benedict XVI stated today that he intends to enter into sincere dialogue with those of other faiths, and it would seem that us Catholics are being offered a timely lead in this matter:)
 
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gnjsdad:
C) Make it clear to Ariel Sharon that unless Israel agrees to return to the 1967 borders and withdraws the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, that Israel faces a complete and total cutoff of economic and military aid.
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I’m all for peace, but not an ANY price. Israel with the 1967 borders is almost undefendable. They took the territory as a result of being attacked. I think they deserve some real assurances of peace before returning to those borders.
 
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