Islamic answer to the Pakistan Earthquake?

[TNT]

jcaz:

…
“Whatever befalls you from good (whatever good happens to you) is from Allaah, and whatever befalls you from the evils/bad (whatever bad things happen to you) is from your own self.”

jcaz

Ahh, sounds an awful lot like he was quoting St Augustine…400ad.
“Whatever good is a gift, whatever is punishment is Justice.” (paraphrased)

 

[Edris]

MrS:

He would be welcomed. He would even be welcomed to attend Mass. And if he could purchase property and build a mosque right next to the Vatican or a bascillica etc (oops…that has already happened), he might be frowned on… but not harmed or killed.

but now we are off topic again…

so …back to the issue at hand

some muslims wanted to pray in the Cathedral of Cordoba, but the vatican refused. Note the Cathedral of Cordoba originaly was a mosque. So ya i’m sure he will

now back to the issue at hand

 

[Edris]

TNT:

Ahh, sounds an awful lot like he was quoting St Augustine…400ad.
“Whatever good is a gift, whatever is punishment is Justice.” (paraphrased)

mmm…so? If you are trying to say that there are similarities between chrisitianity and Islam, then Yes of course there is, cause both are from the same God.

But just in case, let me tell you this: The earliest Arabic version of the Old Testament is that of R. Saadias Gaon of 900 C.E. - more than 250 years after the death of our beloved Prophet. The oldest Arabic version of the new Testament was published by Erpenius in 1616 C.E. - about a thousand years after the demise of our Prophet.

 

[TNT]

Edris:

mmm…so? If you are trying to say that there are similarities between chrisitianity and Islam, then Yes of course there is, cause both are from the same God.

But just in case, let me tell you this: The earliest Arabic version of the Old Testament is that of R. Saadias Gaon of 900 C.E. - more than 250 years after the death of our beloved Prophet. The oldest Arabic version of the new Testament was published by Erpenius in 1616 C.E. - about a thousand years after the demise of our Prophet.

St Augustine was not quoting any Testament. He is OUR beloved DOCTOR of theology of the 4th-5th century AD. He resided in North Africa from whence his writings were dispersed.east, west north and south.
Are you saying that Arabs could ONLY understand Arabic? The New Testament (Gospel of the Messiah) was PREACHED for the most part, not read in a set of books.

 

[Edris]

TNT:

St Augustine was not quoting any Testament…

I’m sure he wasn’t

“Reward & Punishment
Even God’s punishment is for the ultimate good of the individual as well as humanity. His punishment is thus never administered in anger, as the Psalmist said, “But He is merciful; He pardons sin and does not destroy; He frequently turns His anger away and never arouses all His wrath” (Psalms 78:38). God also does not exact all the punishment that a sin may warrant, as we find, “For You are our God – You have therefore punished us less than our sins deserve” (Ezra 9:13). Finally, whatever punishment God does inflict is brought about with wisdom and love, as the prophet declared, “He is also wise when He brings evil” (Isaiah 31:2)…” “
aish.com/literacy/concepts/Reward_and_Punishment_.asp

 

[Edris]

TNT:

Are you saying that Arabs could ONLY understand Arabic? The New Testament (Gospel of the Messiah) was PREACHED for the most part, not read in a set of books.

I’m sure it was, maybe this is why the tribe of Quraish, where the Prophet pbuh was born, had 360 Idols to worship.
I can’t claim that all the arabs of Quraish didn’t understand any other language, but at least the Prophet pbuh was illiterate in his own language the arabic (didn’t know how to write or read arabic) never the less speaking another language.

 

[cestusdei]

jcaz,
Ok don’t answer.

 

[sainted]

jcaz:

Dear Sainted,

I’m sorry, but perhaps because you typed your reply so fast, I was unable to understand several portions of it. You obviously have certain perceptions of things and how they work based on your Catholic faith, and I will respect your beliefs. I cannot, however, mandate that you respect the beliefs of others.

Your right sometimes I leave it to the imagination to work it out but still I’m sorry for submitting fast. I just want to reiterate that I represented none of the Catholic faith in my post. I tried to use common sense and discern what God might be helping me with. You might have noticed that I rarely quote the Scriptures as you guys don’t believe in it rather I try to discern in light of its message. With regards to respect of belief, I don’t respect something that does not conform to the Truth. Tell me how respectful muslims are in this respect when there are continuing persecutions of christians.

Confusing to you perhaps. But they are very clear to me, to all other Muslims, and frankly, to many Christians, and even to my family of Catholics who I have had this discussion with

What’s the use of saying so many reasons,explanations, interpretations and whatnot why something happens when in the end you say who knows only God knows and or rather ‘Maybe.’ Why the heck go through all the explanations when in the end you simply conclude with a big open uncertainty???

They dont hold true for any single disaster and its interpretations. Those same verses have led many of your Imams confused what they are saying. During the onset of Katrina the muslim world said it was God’s punishment for Iraq and shortly after in the same week a stampede killed many in Iraq. How do your verses explain that coincidence. How do they justify what the imams were preaching at that time which made many believe as so only after they can’t explain the stampede?

God controls everything. He allows everything to happen, and he can stop anything from happening.

Who doesn’t believe this?

However, it seems amazing audacious to state what God is and is not doing and how He runs and controls His universe.

Where in my post did I say something about this?

and these disasters would caused by God to punish people, such as during the time of Lot, of Noah, of Pharoh, and of many others.

That’s why I said I wouldn’t go there because understandably God
would degree anything to guide His people. For the new era in Christ, Jesus only said that there would still be natural disasters, there would still be famine, wars just as in the old days. I could imagine Him saying these so as to tell people, … ‘well don’t think that now I’ve come and you have seen me that you think you are going to live in paradise, with no more wars no earthquake … etc … etc.’ No not even did He offer an explanation similar as what could be said in the koran.

Infact he went as far to the opposite end, far from paradise, freedom and peace the Jews had hoped for. To the extreme he foretold His followers that they will be prosecuted for His name. The only hint then He offered is when the magnitude and frequeny of these events are on the rise then know ‘my return is at the door.’

If someone comes forward and says that “such and such” disaster happened because of “such and such” reason, … but these guesses are merely what they are: guesses.

Isn’t this what your imams do which has confused alot of people?

General interpretations based on past examples and based on verses in one’s religious Holy Book are not futile, but rather, are very important.

How important if they cause confusion amonst the followers?

 

[sainted]

jcaz:

Secondy, and more importantly, Sainted, I advise myself first and then you secondly to be careful when accusing someone of something when you only “think” it was them that said it.

I was sure it was you jcaz but I just put that next to it so as not to be so bold and blunt in naming people. My mistake then but next time I’ll be blunt.

On the thread in question, YOU precariously assumed that Muslim countries were not sending help to the Pakistanis, whether that help be in the form of money, helicopters, workers, blankets, food, etc.

You said all these youself. I never said such a thing. That’s why in my reply when you said all these to read my post again. I was strictly making my point about **immediate rescue ** efforts where in your response it appeared you misinterpreted my post for relief help in general. Up to the third day still there was no apparent response from nearby countries in (I will say again) immediate rescue effort like helicopters and manpower when people from afar were already there with food, equipment and manpower. I knew help would come later in monetary donations of course but by the time that money materialised it would be in the ‘relief help’ phase of the disaster. This was though far from my concern at the time and I’m sure most people as well.

Muslilms "were turing a blind eye towards their brothers and sisters in Pakistan.

It appeared to be true during those crucial first few days of the disaster when up to 4th day no forthcoming rescue response apparent from the neighbouring muslims. Afghanistan was reported **to have decided ** to send 2 helicopters. How many days after the west and others have already been there? (if you can recall how prompt it was) It’s not news though the same happened to the Tsunami rescue.

I pointed this out to you and explained that you have no way of knowing what has and has not been donated FROM ANYONE. I further said that you have no idea how much or how little individual Christians gave to Pakistanis, and the ONLY POINT was to make you understand the fault of your logic and the fault of the precarious position you were taking. Just because I am not aware of every single donation made by individual Christians, this does not mean they are not donating. And just because you are not aware of every single relief effort donated and given to the Pakistanis by their Muslim brothers, that does not mean it is not happening.

Yes this is the kind of response from you which amazed me so much and if you recall I said ‘uncalled’ for. Where in my post did I say muslims were not donating or how much or little they donate. You took one sentence of my post out of context and generalised about it and successfully overshadowing my point.

I said before and I will say again. I didn’t care how much people and countries were donating since they were monetary donations, these don’t transform overnight to helicopters, manpower and equipment vital for immediate rescue efforts. These are now significant as the rescue for survivors has been called off and as relief efforts shift to second phase but again it’s not the concern of my then post.

That was the point. So please do not try to defame anyone, personally, the same way you attempt at defaming Islaam.

Please I wasn’t even trying. Islam defames itself by its fruits and deeds.

 

[Edris]

Sainted,
man you’re lucky the moderators deleted that thread.

Peace

 

[sainted]

Edris:

Sainted,
man you’re lucky the moderators deleted that thread.

Peace

Yeah if you didn’t take my point out of context and generalised about it. It comes as no surprise as its you peoples usual tactics.

I just came to a new thread where the title, ’ Daughter of Catholicism finds Muhammad,’ where in close scrutiny she was never catholic. Instead of starting another thread with an appropriate title you went ahead and posted some links to a baptist convert.

When do you begin to discuss what’s at hand?

So when can I trust you people!!

 

[Edris]

sainted:

…You said all these youself. I never said such a thing. That’s why in my reply when you said all these to read my post again. I was strictly making my point about **immediate rescue ** efforts where in your response it appeared you misinterpreted my post for relief help in general. Up to the third day still there was no apparent response from nearby countries in (I will say again) immediate rescue effort like helicopters and manpower when people from afar were already there with food, equipment and manpower. I knew help would come later in monetary donations of course but by the time that money materialised it would be in the ‘relief help’ phase of the disaster. This was though far from my concern at the time and I’m sure most people as well.

It appeared to be true during those crucial first few days of the disaster when up to 4th day no forthcoming rescue response apparent from the neighbouring muslims. Afghanistan was reported **to have decided ** to send 2 helicopters. How many days after the west and others have already been there? (if you can recall how prompt it was) It’s not news though the same happened to the Tsunami rescue.

Yes this is the kind of response from you which amazed me so much and if you recall I said ‘uncalled’ for. Where in my post did I say muslims were not donating or how much or little they donate. You took one sentence of my post out of context and generalised about it and successfully overshadowing my point.

I said before and I will say again. I didn’t care how much people and countries were donating since they were monetary donations, these don’t transform overnight to helicopters, manpower and equipment vital for immediate rescue efforts. These are now significant as the rescue for survivors has been called off and as relief efforts shift to second phase but again it’s not the concern of my then post.
Please I wasn’t even trying. Islam defames itself by its fruits and deeds.

“In the Arab world, Kuwait donated $100 million and the United Arab Emirates pledged $100 million for quake relief; Yemen said it would send two aid planes.”
reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/NKUA-6H2RT3?OpenDocument

“Saudi King Abdullah ordered the** “rapid**” establishment of an airlift of doctors, medicines, tents, covers and food to Pakistan, said the state news agency SPA.”
albawaba.com/en/news/190130
note this was posted on the 9th Sunday, THE NEXT DAY when the earthquake happened.

“Malaysia has also pledged $1 million in aid”
news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051010/wl_nm/quake_subcontinent_world_dc;_ylt=AqcyqVxgjq958727FbV2kWOs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b3JuZGZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

LARGE AID PLEDGES
Kuwait: $100m
UAE: $100m
US: $50m
Canada: $20m
Japan: $20m
World Bank: $20m
Asian Development Bank: $10m
Australia: $7.6m
China: $6.2m
EU: $4.4m
UK: $3.5m
South Korea: $3m
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4324014.stm

“Bangladesh, one of the world’s poorest countries, has promised to send 20,000 blankets, clothes and medicine.”
“Another close neighbour, Afghanistan, itself a major recipient of international aid, has sent four military helicopters and a plane carrying four tonnes of medicine and 20 tonnes of dried food, along with aid teams including 34 doctors and nurses. “
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4324014.stm

note: Bangladesh is a muslim country (90% of population are muslims).

Peace

 

[sainted]

Dear Edris you posted that before and I commented on it. Frankly I’m tired of repeating myself here. I’m sorry but I must say you still miss the mark and sorry I will not say anymore on it.

Do you have any other constructive critism to 99% of my post other than this?

 

[Edris]

sainted:

Dear Edris you posted that before and I commented on it.** Frankly I’m tired of repeating myself here**. I’m sorry but I must say you still miss the mark and sorry I will not say anymore on it.

Do you have any other constructive critism to 99% of my post other than this?

but you weren’t tired repeating the same accusations

 

[sainted]

You don’t believe me Edris? I’m really tired even to say goodbuy. You won’t believe that I’ve been here 6hrs straight. Let me get some sleep and recuperate but for now so long my dear brother. peace!

 

[De_Maria]

Now compare the teachings of Islam to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Why a good God allows suffering

God is all Good

As Catholics we believe that God is all good and God does not cause evil. The evil that we see in the world is either directly or indirectly caused by God’s creatures.

Suffering is evil. And suffering came into the world when Adam and Eve turned their back on all which is good, they turned their back on God.

God brings good from evil

God permits man and Satan to cause evil because God can bring good from evil. The extreme example is the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The most heinous crime man could commit, murdering God, brought about the greatest good, man’s salvation. CCC311

How does God bring good from evil?

1. Man’s evil behavior causes sin and sin causes suffering. This suffering tends to make men feel helpless and hurt. At these times men realize that they need God and they call out to HimCCC1472
2. And again, other men see the suffering of their fellow man and respond to that suffering with kindness. Men see this kindness and are moved to call upon the God who elicits this kindnessCCC1506
3. Suffering servants are righteous men, like Jesus and Job, who are permitted by God to suffer for the good of mankind. Their suffering is redemptive for the souls of other men who do not have enough merit on their soul to enter heavenCCC1505
4. Men suffer to expiate sin. Men’s souls are purified by sufferingCCC1460

scripturecatholic.com/suffering.html

To summarize, the Catholic teaching on suffering is the most beautiful of any religion. God loves us so much that He took flesh and came to suffer for our sins, that we could have an example to follow. The saying is very true, there is no greater love than to give ones life for someone. God came and died for us. This is true love. And there is no more beautiful doctrine than that in any religion. And if God can suffer, what makes us feel that we are too good to suffer?

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[kristyn]

Edris:

How about a Saudi Arabian go and perform muslim prayer in the Vatican? I’m sure he’ll be very welcomed.

o.k. that is illogical. For one it is NOT an exaggeration, and two, there is a difference between saying Mass in a COUNTRY and saying it in a Mosque (which by the way, if that happens the Iman should politely ask the priest to leave, not punish the Priest). You are equating free expression of religion with entering a private house of worship and forcing your beliefs on others. I haven’t posted in a while because it is pointless ( I will pray, though). All I get when I state something is “where is your proof?”-History is the proof, by the way, and is is ironic that Muslims always ask for proof when their whole religion is based on NO PROOF! heresay, from someone who if you asked him (I mean Mohammad) why there is Islam he would say “because I say it is!”.

 

[kristyn]

I apologize for being off the topic.

 

[Edris]

De Maria:

The most heinous crime man could commit, murdering God, brought about the greatest good, man’s salvation. CCC311

 Just a question here; while "God" was busy being murdered, mmm...who was taking care of the world?

De Maria:

the Catholic teaching on suffering is the most beautiful of any religion. God loves us so much that He took flesh and came to suffer for our sins…God came and died for us. This is true love

How lovely that is. But to tell you the truth, I more like feel pity to such a “God” than love.
De Maria:

And there is no more beautiful doctrine than that in any religion.

  I can't agree with you more,  there is no such doctrine in any other religion on the face of the earth!!!   DOESN'T  THAT RING AN ALARM SYSTEM OF YOURS  :banghead:





      
    "Blessed is He in Whose Hand is the dominion, and He is Able to do all things.  Who has created death and life, that He may test you which of you is best in deed And He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving;"  (Qur'an 67:1-2)

      He created death and life to test you, not to test Himself. 

    "And they will say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!""  (Qur'an 67:10)

Peace

 

[Franze]

Edris:

some muslims wanted to pray in the Cathedral of Cordoba, but the vatican refused. Note the Cathedral of Cordoba originaly was a mosque. So ya i’m sure he will

now back to the issue at hand

Wrong, the mosque was built with the stones of visigotic cathedral. Please don´t lie.