Islamic Beliefs

[cute2904]

Saudi Arabia and Qatar two muslim countries have the lowest crime rate.

Funny, while the maids(female workers) they import from indo/phil/thai to work there in saudi arabia mostly were having rape cases or having babies when they comeback to their homeland. some got court charges in saudi arabia (death sentences mostly) because accidentally killed their masters when the masters wanted to rape them. (maybe the masters think that their maids are their slaves… well that is 1400 years ago!!!)

 

[MugenOne]

That’s true! Only Muslim women from Indonesia and Phillippines are allowed as maids in Saudi Arabia.

cute2904:

Funny, while the maids(female workers) they import from indo/phil/thai to work there in saudi arabia mostly were having rape cases or having babies when they comeback to their homeland. some got court charges in saudi arabia (death sentences mostly) because accidentally killed their masters when the masters wanted to rape them. (maybe the masters think that their maids are their slaves… well that is 1400 years ago!!!)

 

[selvaraj]

cute2904:

Funny, while the maids(female workers) they import from indo/phil/thai to work there in saudi arabia mostly were having rape cases or having babies when they comeback to their homeland. some got court charges in saudi arabia (death sentences mostly) because accidentally killed their masters when the masters wanted to rape them. (maybe the masters think that their maids are their slaves… well that is 1400 years ago!!!)

Saudi Arabia currently is home to more than 600,000 Indonesian women workers — mainly maids. The Indonesian Embassy in Riyadh has been receiving nearly 10 complaints every day from maids, while the Indonesian Consulate in Jeddah has been handling some five to seven complaints a day.

Several Indonesian maids committed suicide during the last 18 months. More than 5,000 maids are currently stranded in Riyadh alone awaiting deportation.
arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=61865&d=10&m=4&y=2005

One sample is provided here which published by the Saudi Arabian news paper. If the Muslim brothers need more,then I can provide more with links.

In Christ,
selvaraj

 

[selvaraj]

MugenOne:

That’s true! Only Muslim women from Indonesia and Phillippines are allowed as maids in Saudi Arabia.

Guest Worker May Lose Digits, Toes After Being Tied Up in Bathroom for a Month

JEDDAH, 23 March 2005 — A 25-year-old Indonesian woman who came to Saudi Arabia as a guest worker will have several of her fingers, toes and part of her right foot amputated because of gangrene after being tied up for a month in a bathroom by her Saudi sponsor, who also apparently beat her severely, injuring her eye and knocking several of her teeth out.
arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=60876&d=23&m=3&y=2005&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom
http://www.arabnews.com/2005/03/guest23_.jpg

In Christ,
selvaraj

 

[Darrel]

Edris:

These are the laws I’m talking about, there are many more in the Qur’an, more about food, about marriage, Divorce, Laws of Inheritance, Limits and Punishments, etc…… All these are set by Allah (swt), He created us and He knows what’s good for us.

Edris,

How do you follow these laws in strict obediance? Do you wake up each day and rely on will power alone? Do you remain holy by sheer determination? If the Holy spirit is not in you then you can not resist temptation for any extended period time at all.

If you hand somebody a list of rules alone they will fail every time at some point. The only way to make them follow these rules is through fear of punishment. If I am Islamic I might think twice about commiting adultery (especialy if I am a women).

The penalty is death, does this work so well as you state? I submit to you that this system of rules is flawed and deviod of forgiveness. You may have some stats on decreased crime, yet ingnorance and barbarism is pervasive throughout the Islamic middle east. People are being killed out in the open for sins on a regular basis.

Meanwhile us poor Christians in the United States are doing things like inventing the computer that you use in this forum. My point is simple, take a look at the Islamic world and then look at the Christian world. We have helped millions of people in crisis and the Holy Spirit is the reason. We dont use strict rules and fear of death. We have the direct help of God and the results stand for themselves. This is not the dark ages it is the year 2005. Yet if you look at places like Iran it may as well be 1250AD. Why is that the case? When is the Islamic world going to contribute to humanity and offer me some loving decent help or offer some form of advancement to the betterment of humanity? The first step is simple mercy for people who are week and sin. Do they deserve mercy and help?

-D

 

[Edris]

Darrel:

Edris,

How do you follow these laws in strict obediance? Do you wake up each day and rely on will power alone? Do you remain holy by sheer determination? If the Holy spirit is not in you then you can not resist temptation for any extended period time at all.

If you hand somebody a list of rules alone they will fail every time at some point. The only way to make them follow these rules is through fear of punishment. If I am Islamic I might think twice about commiting adultery (especialy if I am a women).

The penalty is death, does this work so well as you state? I submit to you that this system of rules is flawed and deviod of forgiveness. You may have some stats on decreased crime, yet ingnorance and barbarism is pervasive throughout the Islamic middle east. People are being killed out in the open for sins on a regular basis.
-D

I have to say this is the only reply that’s worth the comment on. The rest of the replies are pathetic, i’m giving you statistics, and you’re giving me incidents here and there regarding one part of crime. Anyways, that’s what i expected.

Just a quick side question for cute2904, since she’s making fun of what i’m saying apparently without thinking. My question is You’re not originaly from Indonesia (muslim country), What brought you to a muslim country of you are really persecuted there?. so please keep your comments to yourself, and don’t pollute this thread.

Ok now back to you Darrel,

first questions, How do you follow these laws? and if you depend on will power alone? you need Holy Spirit.

As you know, we muslims believe the Holy Spirit is no more than Angle Gabriel (Jibreel), so we don’t worship him and we don’t rely on him in these issues. We worship only God, and yes we can’t depend on our will power alone, so we need assistance from God (Allah swt). This is what Allah (swt) told us in the Qur’an:

"O you who believe! Seek help in patience and As-Salât (the prayer) Truly! Allâh is with As-Sâbirin (the patient ones, etc)" (Qur’an 2:153)

So two things, Patience and Prayer, will help you to follow these laws.

Second set of questions: The penalty is death, does this work so well as you state? And the use of Punishment.

First of all, let me tell you this. These laws are there to for the sake of the whole society, if you violate you have to be punished. Let me give you an example, in islamic law if you steal they’ll cut off your hand from the wrist. “Cut off (from the wrist joint) the (right) hand of the thief, male or female, as a recompense for that which they committed, a punishment by way of example from Allâh And Allâh is AllPowerful, AllWise” (Qur’an 5:38) Now the Prophet pbuh explained that you don’t just cut the wrist of any thief. If someone stole a piece of bread to eat you don’t cut off his hand. He said if he stole something worth more than a 1/4 Gold dinar, then you cut off the hand from wrist. You’d think that this is brutal. But it’s simply working, Compare the number of thefts In Saudi Arabia (which applies this law), with that of any other country and you’ll see the difference. nationmaster.com/country/sa/Crime&b_define=1

Saudi Arabia: Crime
Assaults 0.17/1000 people , Burglaries 0.00/1000 people (only 11 burglaries took place in year 2000), Car thefts 0.21/1000 people, Embezzlements 0.01/1000 people, Frauds 0.00/1000 people, Murders 0.00/1000 people.

You say if i’m Islamic “i’d think twice before committing adultery” that’s true you should and that’s the whole point. In Islam if a “married” man or “married” woman commits adultery, thats considered a great sin, and there the penalty is death and not in all cases. If the man or woman was not married, then there is no death, here’s the penalty of the unmarried "The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day And let a party of the believers witness their punishment (Qur’an 24:2)"

In islam, if you take the punishment in this world, then on the Judgement Day you’re exempted from it. So if given the choice any person who believes In Allah (swt) and the Last Day should accept to take the punishment in this life, because the Punishment of Allah (swt) is more severe.

Cont… I’ll comment on the last part of your reply (regarding the so called ignorance and barbarism in the Islamic countries) later on today.

Peace

 

[MrS]

I can’t help but smile when a post ends in

“Peace”

But if the poster follows his own Quran, he must consider us unbelievers, and not innocent, and then follow the directive of their “Peaceful” prophet, and kill all unbelievers, where ever they find them.

This, IMHO, eliminates all credibility for this religion.

 

[cute2904]

Edris:

Just a quick side question for cute2904, since she’s making fun of what i’m saying apparently without thinking.

I do write with thinking. Since you brought something irrational then it sounds funny.

My question is You’re not originaly from Indonesia (muslim country),

What is that supposed to mean?

What brought you to a muslim country of you are really persecuted there?

I was born here, I grew up here, I even cannot speak chinese, My ancestor been generations here, but still these hypocrite muslims consider me Chinese, thus, we have problems everytime we deal with government people. They make nonsense excuses to get more money from us. They think they deserve because we are not muslims thus not number one citizens. They burnt our churches, they bomb our churches, they closed down our churches, they attack us when we practice our religions. Do know why Indo keep going around on its own poverty until now? Do you know why Indo is the only country in south east asia that even cannot stand up after economic turmoil few years ago? Do you know why the chinese investors run away from this country? UNCHARITABLE TEXT DELETED

so please keep your comments to yourself, and don’t pollute this thread.

Pollute this thread? who are you? a saint? word of god? so my word not deserve to be heard?

PS: I just hope moderator won’t edit my special statement here.

 

[Shadowcry]

Well how is it hypocritical if someone mistakes where you came from?

 

[Edris]

I can’t help but smile when a post ends in

“Peace”

But if the poster follows his own Quran, he must consider us unbelievers, and not innocent, and then follow the directive of their “Peaceful” prophet, and kill all unbelievers, where ever they find them.
This, IMHO, eliminates all credibility for this religion.

Ok, I think you are referring to verse 191 surah 2. Which i have already placed in context and explained in this forum at least twice. Again major problem with you people, you don’t read the Qur’an. But you keep bringing accusations from “answering-islam”. I NEVER quote a verse from the Bible before checking it and reading the whole chapter first.

Anyways there you go the verses, maybe it’ll keep you smiling for a while.

**(Qur’an 2:190-191)

“And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out And Al-Fitnah (backbiting) is worse than killing And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there But if they attack you, then kill them Such is the recompense of the disbelievers”**

If you have noticed, the fighting that’s allowed in these verses is only in self-defence. And even though, Allah (swt) keeps stressing on the believers not to transgress the limits (i.e. NOT to take the self-defense as a motive to annihilate every one).

Peace

 

[Myangel]

Where I come from (Australia) Muslims are the major culprits for drugs and rape. We had a case not that long ago where quite a few girls were gang raped by Muslims, they even had the guts to say that they thought it was OK because in islamic law they are allowed to do that to their women. We have muslims saying on public television that they will never similate with our culture ON TELEVISION FOR ALL TO SEE! Its very sad because I went to school with many muslims and most of my fondest memories are with them. Now most of them are either in jail or dead (gangsters). One guy I went to school with was doused in petrol and set alight by his own cousins! We have suburbs where majority of muslims live, and you guessed it, Crime is high, drive by shootings mind you on their own people as well as innocent bystanders!

 

[Ivornotion]

Edris:

This why you and every human being on earth should become a muslim. nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap

Islam is the only religion that answers all your problems.

Seeing as you like long posts here ! Sorry moderators

Naaaaaaaa ! don’t think so, Here I expose the insatiable sexual appetite that Mohammed possessed. This goes to show that among others, one of the main reasons for forming this insidious religion, Islam, was so that sex was freely available to the male followers in the name of Allah. As I have already proved in my article, Wondrous Treatment of Women In Islam, the Quran justifies treating a woman as nothing but an object for sexual desire and sometimes even an ordinary object would be treated better. Suras in the Quran seem to pop up conveniently, so that Mohammed can justify his perverted sexual actions. For example, when Mohammed wanted his adopted son’s wife, he suddenly got a revelation from Allah declaring it right to take another man’s wife. When he wanted to stop his wives from quarreling or to accept more wives, he got a quick revelation for it. My above points are illustrated from the verses taken from Sura 33.

(Sura 33:28) "O Prophet! Say to thy consorts: ‘If it be that ye desire the life of this world and its glitter then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner.’
hinduunity.org/articles/islamexposed/muhamedwomen.html
This shows how he treated the institution of marriage. For him, women were nothing but objects for sexual fulfillment. Marrying at least 11 women in 14 years throws light on his insatiable sexual appetite. Read on about the “greatness” of this prophet.

Among his many other wives Mohammed also married a 6 year old baby,(or 9) Ayesha. She was his favourite wife. regardless of the age, still way too young.

Historical evidences, impartial logic, well versed references and all available circumstantial judgments can very well prove that—(a) Allah name of deity was pre-existed much before the arrival of Islam, (b) Pre-Islamic Pagan peoples worshipped Allah as their supreme deity (moon-god). Allah’s name existed in pre-Islamic Arab. In ancient Arab the Allah was considered to be the supreme God/deity (as Moon-God) and Arab Pagans worshipped Allah before Islam arrived.

Why was Allah proclaimed as the most glorious and the only God? It is because He was an Arab god whoses statue was worshipped in the Kaaba itself for centuries. Of course, Allah was not the only god of the Kaaba, which had developed into a pantheon owing to the influences of the foreign cults. It was very much like a Hindu temple devoted to idolatory and organised on the Hindu doctrine of Triad (Trimurti) which means three-in-one. Allah had his three daughters in the Kaaba, worshipped along with him.

Muhammad himself admitted that he was possessed by Satan at one time:

‘Have you, then, seen Al-Lat and Al-Uzza?
And Manat, the third one, the other?
These are exalted females (sublime ones),
Mounting nearer and nearer to Allah
And truly their intercession may be expected.

( Al-Qur’an, Sura 53 verse19-20, and the Satanic verses in bold letters) The Satanic verses were present in the original version of the Qur’an when Muhammad was trying to woo the Meccans who believed in many gods including the pagan idols Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat.

Later on, when he was in a more commanding position, he conveniently edited out these embarrassing verses, admitting that they were inspired in him by Satan. “We have not sent a messenger or prophet before you but when he recited, the Devil would intrude into his recitation. (Al-Qur’an. Sura 22 verse 53) Muhammad admitted that he had a Jinn (demon) up his nose.

Satan is using the pagan idol named Allah to represent himself as the creator. This explains why the five pillars of Islam is so important to Satan. In order to qualify for salvation, a believer in Islam is required to recite the creed that there is only one creator named Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger.

Galatians1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.

1:9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

1:11 For I give you to understand, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.

1:12 For neither did I receive it of man, nor did I learn it; but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Mohammed was one of the false prophets that Jesus warned about. Mohammed is an ANATHEMA Jesus Christ is the only Saviour !

 

[Darrel]

Among his many other wives Mohammed also married a 6 year old baby,(or 9) Ayesha. She was his favourite wife.

regardless of the age, still way too young.

This is one I have never heard of before. Can some of the Islamic people here please answer this? I am curious if this is justified in Islam. If this did happen is it ok with God in Islam?

-D

 

[Ivornotion]

homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137352728&TOCID=2083225348

Peace

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Ok.

Please remember your charity.

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*It is our observation that discussion of such past events rarely serves a useful purpose and inevitably opens a thread to posts that violate forum rules and/or the bounds of civil discourse. So, while such threads may be useful, they raise a red flag for the Moderation staff.

Proceed with the discussion…

 

[Donna_P]

May our blessed mother Mary bring you ever closer to her son Jesus, the Son of God, through the intercession of her prayers.

 

[MrS]

Edris:

Anyways there you go the verses, maybe it’ll keep you smiling for a while.

**(Qur’an 2:190-191)

“And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you**, but transgress not the limits Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out And Al-Fitnah (backbiting) is worse than killing And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there But if they attack you, then kill them Such is the recompense of the disbelievers”

If you have noticed, the fighting that’s allowed in these verses is only in self-defence. And even though, Allah (swt) keeps stressing on the believers not to transgress the limits (i.e. NOT to take the self-defense as a motive to annihilate every one).

Peace

Can you inform us:

What is the “fighting”? Is it with fists, guns, swords… in other words is their a “limit”? Is it with the same degree (for want of a better word) of force that is used against you?

"…then kill them Such is the recompense of the disblievers"

I believe in the one and only Triune God. I believe Jesus is God and Lord. I deny Muhammed as a true prophet. I reject his teachings as they are against God and are man-made.

Am I thus a disbeliever for my beliefs? If not, am I innocent? And if I am not innocent and therefore an unbeliever, what must the decree be according to your Quran?

Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

 

[Edris]

MrS:

Can you inform us:

What is the “fighting”? Is it with fists, guns, swords… in other words is their a “limit”? Is it with the same degree (for want of a better word) of force that is used against you?.

I heard this before, and to be honest i can’t find the other meanings of fighting that you keep proposing anywhere in the Qur’an. Fighting in the verses is with weapons (wih the intention to kill). There is no fighting with words, i don’t know where you get that from.

“fighting with words” this expression is not used in any language, because we have specific words for it, like mocking, cursing, etc… Allah (swt) instruct us to ignore these things and not fight it back. Read this:

"And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allâh) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness" (Qur’an 25:63)

"…then kill them Such is the recompense of the disblievers"

I believe in the one and only Triune God. I believe Jesus is God and Lord. I deny Muhammed as a true prophet. I reject his teachings as they are against God and are man-mad

I respect that. But just tell me how the teachings of Muhammad pbuh are against God?.
This verse summarizes the teachings of Muhammad pbuh.

"Say (O Muhammad): “I am only a man like you It has been inspired to me that your Ilâh (God) is One Ilâh (God ie Allâh) So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord” (Qur’an 18:110)

I think his teachings go against your teachings not against God. Again it’s interesting how you quoted only that part of the verse and claim that it goes against God.

MrS:

Am I thus a disbeliever for my beliefs? If not, am I innocent? And if I am not innocent and therefore an unbeliever, what must the decree be according to your Quran?.

"And (remember) when Allâh said: “O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allâh’s son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (who worship none but Allâh) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allâh], till the Day of Resurrection Then you will all return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute” (Qur’an 3:55)

According to the Qur’an you are disbeliever. But it’s not for any muslim and starting with the Prophet Muhammad pbuh to judge you for what you believe.

"Whether We show you (O Muhammad) part of what We have promised them or cause you to die, your duty is only to convey (the Message) and on Us is the reckoning" (Qur’an 13:40)

"To you be your religion, and to me my religion" (Qur’an 109:6)

MrS:

Peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Peace from Allah (swt) be with you.

 

[Shadowcry]

Myangel:

Where I come from (Australia) Muslims are the major culprits for drugs and rape. We had a case not that long ago where quite a few girls were gang raped by Muslims, they even had the guts to say that they thought it was OK because in islamic law they are allowed to do that to their women. We have muslims saying on public television that they will never similate with our culture ON TELEVISION FOR ALL TO SEE! Its very sad because I went to school with many muslims and most of my fondest memories are with them. Now most of them are either in jail or dead (gangsters). One guy I went to school with was doused in petrol and set alight by his own cousins! We have suburbs where majority of muslims live, and you guessed it, Crime is high, drive by shootings mind you on their own people as well as innocent bystanders!

What does this prove?

 

[Myangel]

Shadowcry:

What does this prove?

Edris is trying to prove his point, so am I.

Edris POST #6

“This why you and every human being on earth should become a muslim. “

“Islam is the only religion that answers all your problems”

“Islam brings back the religion of prophet Abraham pbuh, and gives us the laws that fit for our life”

“Maybe later inshallah i’ll bring you the statics of alcohol consumption rates in the world, and what’s related to it, from injuries to rape and death. “

“Not one single muslim country in the Highest 20.”

My point, they blame alcohol for rape and death, whats their excuse here in my country??? They claim its OK in their countries to do so. Blatant lie, these guys that gang raped (14 men raped one 16 year old girl then dumped her) they were from Lebaon, I know people from Lebanon and their laws do not permit them to rape and murder.

Not one single muslim country in the highest 20, what about the non muslim countries, I can tell you from experience there are alot of them committing crimes here, yeah sure so are other races/religions, but please do not claim your religion is the reason for low crime rates in muslim countries! I dont see catholics claiming that their people are saints, in the end we are all human and all sinners.