Islamic Dress

[TEPO]

I don’t think priesthood or religious life can properly be talked about as “earning” a title. I would tend to agree with you that one should dress according to one’s station in life, but how does that help us distinguish between the clothing and the modesty of a nun and a Muslim woman?

Not sure what you mean.

I do know that the Priest wears a “stole” when performing confessions and/or exorcisms, which indicates to all -the Priests “role”… Very similar to how Police officers wear a badge.
bustedhalo.com/questionbox/why-does-the-priest-wear-a-purple-stole-both-when-performing-an-exorcism-and-hearing-confessions-is-there-a-link-between-confession-and-exorcism/

Should’nt the same concept be applied to nuns, who wear cornette’s or veils…?
I wonder if these head-coverings have been ordered by previous Popes, like the Stole was?

These types of things seem more like “indicators”, to help people identify rank or authority within the Church.

 

[Spirithound]

Well if movies such as Passion of the Christ are any indication, that’s hardly Palestinian. Furthermore, to say that it is something Mary would wear is to ignore the fact that all women back then pretty much dressed the same way.

I’d go as far as to actually call it a cultural uniform. Regardless, it no longer has any to do with modesty and everything to do with, well, culture. With that in mind, you also should consider that cultures clash at some point. If anybody walks past me in any of these clothes, modesty would be the last thing running through my head:…

I acknowledge my ignorance of 1st century Palestinian dress, thank you for the picture.

I still can’t get it out of my head that several, if not many, of these cultural uniforms were developed with modesty in mind. I still can’t agree that modesty or immodesty is directly tied to how much attention one draws to oneself.

 

[Spirithound]

Not sure what you mean.

I do know that the Priest wears a “stole” when performing confessions and/or exorcisms, which indicates to all -the Priests “role”… Very similar to how Police officers wear a badge.
bustedhalo.com/questionbox/why-does-the-priest-wear-a-purple-stole-both-when-performing-an-exorcism-and-hearing-confessions-is-there-a-link-between-confession-and-exorcism/

Should’nt the same concept be applied to nuns, who wear cornette’s or veils…?
I wonder if these head-coverings have been ordered by previous Popes, like the Stole was?

These types of things seem more like “indicators”, to help people identify rank or authority within the Church.

I’m also not sure what you mean. How does this relate to what either of us last posted?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I still can’t agree that modesty or immodesty is directly tied to how much attention one draws to oneself.

Hey don’t look at me. Take it up with the dictionary.

modest adv] - having or showing a moderate or humble estimate of one’s merits, importance, etc.; free from vanity, egotism, boastfulness, or great pretensions.

I still can’t get it out of my head that several, if not many, of these cultural uniforms were developed with modesty in mind.

Um, I hate to break it to you but as much as how modest a yukata appears to you right now, you’d be surprised at how I’ve seen it become a sexual fetish outfit with little to no alteration.

The virtue of modesty may not change but its form certainly isn’t tied down in that same absolutism. In fact, form can be superficial than anything else.

 

[Peepers]

What a diverse world we live in. In Spain, it is a legal right, interpreted as being protected by the Constitution, for a person to be completely nude anywhere, including all public places. I would hope that a church, a school, or private business could regulate that. Perhaps someone more familiar with Spanish legalities could enlighten us. Yet, in some parts of the world, a woman could be beheaded or stoned to death for going out without her head and face covered.

 

[Spirithound]

Hey don’t look at me. Take it up with the dictionary.

modest [adv] - having or showing a moderate or humble estimate of one’s merits, importance, etc.; free from vanity, egotism, boastfulness, or great pretensions.

Oh…I think we’ve been talking past each other somewhat. When I read “drawing attention to oneself” I took it for granted that one is not purposely drawing attention, and I assumed we were discussing instances when clothing draws attention apart from the wearer’s intention.

Um, I hate to break it to you but as much as how modest a yukata appears to you right now, you’d be surprised at how I’ve seen it become a sexual fetish outfit with little to no alteration.

Yeah, I’m a little aware of the fanboy culture…but still, wasn’t the original intention to dress modestly?

The virtue of modesty may not change but its form certainly isn’t tied down in that same absolutism. In fact, form can be superficial than anything else.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Oh…I think we’ve been talking past each other somewhat. When I read “drawing attention to oneself” I took it for granted that one is not purposely drawing attention, and I assumed we were discussing instances when clothing draws attention apart from the wearer’s intention.

I would assume that if it was apart from the wearer’s intention then that would be the case of culture clashing where the form of modesty is understood differently between two parties. With that said, the responsibility still rests on people’s shoulders to not judge books by their cover.

For instance, if a woman were to come in wearing an outfit acceptable back at home for her yet you and your community find “immodest”, that’s no excuse to ostracize her or tell her to “change her ways”.

Yeah, I’m a little aware of the fanboy culture…but still, wasn’t the original intention to dress modestly?

Original intentions do not matter in the realm of the aesthetic. Form and meaning are two separate entities and are not always bound together by the same associative ties. An outfit may stand for one thing in one century yet over periods of time, it could begin stand for something else.

Granted the time and the sociological forces to make or change associations is considerably large, it doesn’t mean that such associations are relative regardless of whatever the “original” intention or interpretation was.

 

[TEPO]

I’m also not sure what you mean. How does this relate to what either of us last posted?

No, I seriously did’nt know what you’re point was when you said “I don’t think priesthood or religious life can properly be talked about as “earning” a title”

What it sounds like is that you don’t believe that Priests or Nuns have “earned” their position in the Church. (maybe you think God graced them with it?) --Or, maybe it means that you don’t believe that a Clergy member should be entitled to wear “special” garments different from the other Church members. --Or maybe it means that you think all Church members should be equal in that they should all be able to wear these “special” garments.

Then you asked the question “one should dress according to one’s station in life, but how does that help us distinguish between the clothing and the modesty of a nun and a Muslim woman”

This sounds like you want to know why it’s acceptable for a Nun to wear “modest” clothing while it’s not acceptable for a muslim woman. I then attempted to explain that not only Nuns, but Priests dress in a fashion that serves to indicate their position in life… So technically, Nuns and Priests are not actually dressing “modestly” at all… They’re dressing to stand-out like in the pictures below.