Islamic indoctrination case - La Plata High School, Maryland

[oldcatholicguy]

]

No, no your post have no relation to my posts.

**This will suffice all your misunderstanding of my posts. Islam does not build a model of it’s own society for all to follow, because it is always in conflict period. History proves Islam takes over an existing society it never builds and implements it’s laws and religion. In short Islam takes the spoils and fruits of conflict from these societies already in place into it’s bosom and Implements Islam **.

Can you give one model today of Islam’s own model of society lived by all Muslims that utopia of peace among all Muslims it seeks? Islam’s own history by conquering others from it’s past history has never reached it’s zenith It proclaims.

It’s funny, you take the liberal view such as stating; Well Christians do no better? I am not comparing Christianity to Islam as you falsely do and as Muslims try to do to justify their atrocities against humanity in the name of Islam. But, a liberal argument will argue; Well, those who murder in the name of Islam do not represent the peaceful Islam.

I say take your head out of the sand, because Islam’s founder practiced these same atrocities against humanity in the name of Islam, just as it is practiced today.

Sure, there are peaceful Muslims who practice Islam who come in the name of Islam, but the radicals of the same Islam breed from the same tree.

I would love to accept Islam as a religion of peace. But their history disproves it and proves Islam as a religion in continue conflict. I am still looking for that model Islam makes about a peaceful religion? And please don’t bring the Jewish or Christian faith in a point Muslims make who proclaim Islam is a religion of peace.

**Until you can prove a model society of Islam as a peaceful religion, your posts serve no meaning to the discussion by trying to implement other religions as examples for Islam’s justification if it claims to be a religion of peace.

Your posts do not justify Islam’s claims of peace, when you look to compare Islam to other faiths in order to justify Islam’s false claim as a religion of peace.**

If the Allah in the Quran teaches Muslims to lie and deceive as a good virtue to practice in Islam. Which side of Islam’s deception do you follow and believe?

Your wrong, all power does not corrupt. it is Ultimate power of religion and secular power which corrupts. The power of God who is all is not corrupt, and the power God gives to give witness is never corrupt.

So let’s review-
-you object to Muslims using peaceful means to shape society to reflect their values like what every other group does
-I point out the flaw and double standard in your comment
-you respond with a bunch of random self-conflicting comments that don’t actually address my point
-I take the time and effort to address your self-conflicting comments and to point out how your comment about how Islam only succeeds through conflict means there is really no need to object to Muslims using peaceful means to shape a society since according to your own conclusion said peaceful shaping will fail (Islam only succeeds through conflict remember)
-you only bother to respond to just one of my criticisms of your post, decide to label me a liberal, decide to conclude I have my head in the sand, and go even more into how Islam doesn’t work when it tries to reshape a society peacefully which further invalidates your initial objection to Muslims using peaceful means to reshape a society.

Yes one of us has our head in the sand, but since I don’t currently have trouble breathing and don’t have sand in my hair I’m pretty sure it isn’t me.

 

[foofydo]

Gabriel of 12 …I agree wholeheartedly with you! Thank you!

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

oldcatholicguy;12543384]So let’s review-
-you object to Muslims using peaceful means to shape society to reflect their values like what every other group does

I don’t object to peaceful means to shape society. I am stating according to Islam’s history, it has no model of shaping a society by peaceful means to follow according to Islam. If Islam makes the claim as being a peaceful religion, let Islam prove it’s own model by It’s own merit without comparing itself to other religions.

-I point out the flaw and double standard in your comment

The double standard is Islam claiming to be a peaceful religion, while it’s history reveals Islam a religion that is never without conflict. Note, that the historical Islam conflicts with it’s own Muslims against Muslims. Why? because Islam mixes secular powers with it’s religion, which is a contradiction of taking what belongs to God and giving it to Islamic secular rule.

-you respond with a bunch of random self-conflicting comments that don’t actually address my point

Thus far, your point refutes the historical Islam, which I only presented.

-I take the time and effort to address your self-conflicting comments and to point out how your comment about how Islam only succeeds through conflict means there is really no need to object to Muslims using peaceful means to shape a society since according to your own conclusion said peaceful shaping will fail (Islam only succeeds through conflict remember)

I appreciate and thank you for your time and your effort is very valuable. My position points to Islam’s history and Islamic goal to convert all the world to Islam. Islam’s history proves it succeeds by conflict, that is not my opinion. I am still waiting for your Islamic model of how Islam develops it’s own society by peaceful means, before taking Islam to other nations. I never said peaceful shaping will fail. I will grant you although, Muslims are peaceful among their own tribal Muslims. But remain in and out of conflict with other tribal Muslims due to Islam different interpretations and territory.

-you only bother to respond to just one of my criticisms of your post, decide to label me a liberal, decide to conclude I have my head in the sand, and go even more into how Islam doesn’t work when it tries to reshape a society peacefully which further invalidates your initial objection to Muslims using peaceful means to reshape a society

.
My comments only relate to what Islamic leaders are known to teach to all Muslims who follow the Quran. I accept your criticism when it pertains to my commentary. So far, your criticism has not reached the subject of my commentary, thus you find a contradiction when there is none.

One aspect of Islam, yes works by a peaceful means to integrate non-Muslim societies through their education systems, political systems, legal systems, medical professions, military systems at local, state, and federal levels, to include it out populates the existing populace due to liberal laws of abortion and contraception. A true Muslim upon reaching leadership roles in these societies which the Muslim never builds, will work to implement Islam into them, either by majority vote of Muslims, laws will take on religious Islamic change, and if this fails, force by conflict, because Muslims would have reached military power roles to do so.
That is the peaceful means by which Muslims reach their goal in our free societies. Look to Europe and Ireland today for this proven example and the school of La Plata High School, which begins the peaceful Islamic take over..

Yes one of us has our head in the sand, but since I don’t currently have trouble breathing and don’t have sand in my hair I’m pretty sure it isn’t me.

Don’t mock the voice of the one crying out in the desert. I only paint a reality picture that exists in our time and what the Leaders of Islam have prophesized the take over of Western societies and replace them with Islam. Each Muslim peaceful or moderate or extremist all do their part in order to fulfill Islam’s prophecies.

Tell you what; If Islam is a peaceful religion? Why does Islam tax it’s Christians living in their societies who have been there long before Islam came into existence who are of the same ethnicity of Muslims? Why does Islam make secular laws so as not to allow Christian bibles or Christianity to be taught in their societies? with penalties and taxations.
This is your peaceful Islamic state today.

Why can’t Christians live (without their faith being hindered or silenced and taxed) peacefully among Muslims in a Muslim predominant society, when Muslims live peacefully without hindrance of their Islamic faith in our free societies, if Islam is a religion of peace?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I don’t object to peaceful means to shape society.

Ah, so a different Gabriel of 12 wrote post #17 in this thread. You might want to contact the moderators and let them know that they have two users using the same forum handle.

 

[Contarini]

Why does one need to know the tenants of Islam for history? Its confusing history with religion.

That’s a very weird definition of history. Logically, you would wind up parceling history out among other subjects and nothing would be left, but for some reason you stop with religion.

All history is history of something. Religion is a very important part of human life, and thus a very important part of history.

Its not a fact an angel visited anyone, its a belief.

Right. But a very historically important belief. If it was worded in such a way as to imply that it’s an accepted historical fact (and it may have been, out of a misguided desire to be “sensitive” to Muslims) then that’s worth challenging. But the objection to the kids learning about Islam is just bizarrely misguided.

Some believe ETs are among us also, does history teach this too?

It is a significant part of contemporary history, yes. But nowhere near as significant, because UFO believers aren’t as important a force in world history (so far) as Muslims.

Edwin

 

[benjohnson]

But the objection to the kids learning about Islam is just bizarrely misguided.

I would certainly agree - with a double bound that islam doesn’t hold up to examination as either a political or religious institution.

However, it appears that objection is having to affirm without qualification that “Muslims worship the same God as Christians.” I know my 9 year old wouldn’t affirm that - he knows the Athanasian creed by heart.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I have no objection with studying Islam’s role in history. I object to the below.

"The assignment also forced young women such as the Woods’ daughter, to fill in the following sentences: ‘Men are the managers of the affairs of women’ and ‘Righteous women are therefore obedient.’”

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I have no objection with studying Islam’s role in history. I object to the below.

"The assignment also forced young women such as the Woods’ daughter, to fill in the following sentences: ‘Men are the managers of the affairs of women’ and ‘Righteous women are therefore obedient.’”

And the reporting of that is as probably as biased/skewed as the fact the article in the OP tried to imply the father was banned from the school because he objected to the assignments when in fact he was banned from the school because he got verbally abusive and threatened to come to the school and put a stop to the classes if they continued to teach about Islam.

 

[abucs]

I don’t really know the details of this case but the equating of religions is itself a judgement call and ultimately leads to the rejection of all.

That is why studies such as comparative religions is indoctrination because it takes as its base the legally binding viewpoint of the equality of all religions.

It is a moral precept. The logical conclusion if one is to study under the forced moral and legal view that one is no better than another, means that when one is flawed they all must be.

When studying politics there is no moral equivalence between Democracy and Despotism, or constitutional Monarchy and Dictatorship.

Yet too many secular courses on religion are ‘balanced’ to the point of absurdity. If we study democracy and despotism then we study the affects and make analytical judgements between the two with regards to which is fairer and more beneficial. That is basic education and investigation of the subject.

In comparative religions there is no educational analysis allowed, it is often a tool to indoctrinate students on the equality of world religions.

No education system worth it’s salt would force kids to see constitutional monarchy and dictatorships as the same without allowing critical investigation and discussion.

In this way the comparative religions social studies program is deeply flawed.It does not promote critical thinking but indoctrination.

As I said above, I do not know the details well enough in this case to discuss properly but i’d suspect my sympathies would be with the father and his daughter.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I don’t really know the details of this case but the equating of religions is itself a judgement call and ultimately leads to the rejection of all.

That is why studies such as comparative religions is indoctrination because it takes as its base the legally binding viewpoint of the equality of all religions.

It is a moral precept. The logical conclusion if one is to study under the forced moral and legal view that one is no better than another, means that when one is flawed they all must be.

When studying politics there is no moral equivalence between Democracy and Despotism, or constitutional Monarchy and Dictatorship.

Yet too many secular courses on religion are ‘balanced’ to the point of absurdity. If we study democracy and despotism then we study the affects and make analytical judgements between the two with regards to which is fairer and more beneficial. That is basic education and investigation of the subject.

In comparative religions there is no educational analysis allowed, it is often a tool to indoctrinate students on the equality of world religions.

No education system worth it’s salt would force kids to see constitutional monarchy and dictatorships as the same without allowing critical investigation and discussion.

In this way the comparative religions social studies program is deeply flawed.It does not promote critical thinking but indoctrination.

As I said above, I do not know the details well enough in this case to discuss properly but i’d suspect my sympathies would be with the father and his daughter.

How do we determine which amoral system of governance is preferable? And can this same method be used to compare and contrast different religions?

 

[Contarini]

I would certainly agree - with a double bound that islam doesn’t hold up to examination as either a political or religious institution.

However, it appears that objection is having to affirm without qualification that “Muslims worship the same God as Christians.” I know my 9 year old wouldn’t affirm that - he knows the Athanasian creed by heart.

Well, a secular school has no business making such an affirmation.

But the Athanasian Creed is neither here nor there on this issue.

As has been pointed out over and over, you can’t say Muslims don’t worship the same God we do and not say the same thing about Jews. And you can’t reasonably say that post-Christian Jews worship a false god but pre-Christian Jews worshiped the true God, when there’s no evidence that pre-Christian Jews believed in the Trinity either. You can say, if you like, that Muslims and Jews are all bound for hell, and you can cite the AC at that point (though I would interpret it differently, along the lines of Vatican II). But that is not the same thing at all.

Edwin

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

SAVINGRACE;12528342]"John Kevin Wood and his wife, Melissa, are now being represented by the Thomas More Law Center in a lawsuit against La Plata High School in Maryland over “Islamic indoctrination” in an 11th grade World History class.

he objected to assignments to affirm statements such as the “Quran is the word of Allah revealed to Muhammad in the same way that Jews and Christians believe the Torah and the Gospels were revealed to Moses and the New Testament writers.”

If the assignment teaches the bold above, then the teaching is biased and it lies. For one the Gospels are never revealed to Moses. Secondly; the Jews and Christians did not receive divine revelation “The SAME WAY” Muhammad claimed to be visited by an angel, without any witnesses present. Thirdly; Muhammad never writes the Quran. Muhammad recites after Muhammad’s angel physically chokes Muhammad three time before Muhammad Quran’s = recites and never writes “the word of Allah”.

On Oct. 22, TMLC said, Wood, who had witnessed “the destruction caused in the name of Allah” serving in Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm, demanded his daughter be given an alternative assignment after discovering she was being forced “to repeat the religious tenets of Islam.”

Mr. Wood has a case here; The curriculum can innocently make it’s pupils Muslims, if they recite publicly the tenants of Islam while in the presence of a Muslim student. There is a fine line this curriculum teaches about Islam. It only takes a profession of the tenants of Islam to make one a Muslim of Islam. Mr. Wood has a legitimate concern by which this public teaching institution may be ignorant of Islam, when Mr. Wood knows better. Although, there is more to this profession, Mr. Woods knows what he is talking about in Islam, when the teacher is ignorant or deceptive.

“She was required to write how the prophet Muhammad was visited by the Angel Gabriel and preached that there is only one true god, who is Allah.

If Mr. Woods daughter says aloud if she writes “Muhammad is the prophet of Allah, the only one true god, who is Allah” she makes a confirmation of accepting the Islamic faith, without her or the teacher aware, but if a Muslim is present, Mr. Woods daughter becomes a Muslim. The school needs to be informed of what makes a Muslim of Islam, and it appears the ignorant teacher is converting students to Islam.

The assignment made her write that Mohammad is the messenger of Allah and that the Quran is holy text,” TMLC said

.
Again, this teaching by the school is a confession of faith as a Muslim and a convert to Islam. According to Islam and according to Mr. Woods living experience.

John Wood contacted the school, but officials refused to provide another assignment for his daughter, and he refused to allow the “Islamic indoctrination.”

According to the attorneys quotes from the schools teaching curriculum, they are attributes to Islamic indoctrination.

One can argue, that it is a ridiculous assumption of Mr. Woods part by his objection. Mr. Wood and Muslims who practice Islam know that this teaching is an indoctrination into Islam. The school is in the wrong according to the evidence provided here.

Islam is a faith which Muslims practice deception according to the Quran at all costs in order to promote Islam. Why doesn’t the teacher teach the subject of Christianity, that any one who denies the crucifixion of Jesus Christ is an anti-Christ according to the bible? And that Islam denies the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, instead of taking a false opinion (and not facts) that Islam worship the same as Jews and Christian God.

If your school is teaching Islam to your students, it would be to the parents advantage to learn, like Mr. Wood is doing, that his student is not to say aloud the tenants of the Islamic faith, especially in the presence of a Muslim.

La Plata High School appears to be in need of an education by Mr. Wood of what makes a Muslim of Islam. I hope the teacher and the school board ignorance of Islam is brought to light.

The schools document never addresses the Islamic teaching specifically, only reveals the school boards ignorance of Islam that it teaches. I would remove my student from these ignorant teachers, who should learn of Islam before teaching it’s tenants of faith.

And if the teachers have to learn Islam, in order to teach Islam correctly, Islam stands to gain not the student.

Peace be with you

 

[oldcatholicguy]

If Mr. Woods daughter says aloud if she writes “Muhammad is the prophet of Allah, the only one true god, who is Allah” she makes a confirmation of accepting the Islamic faith, without her or the teacher aware, but if a Muslim is present, Mr. Woods daughter becomes a Muslim. The school needs to be informed of what makes a Muslim of Islam, and it appears the ignorant teacher is converting students to Islam.

Congratulations on your conversion to the Islamic faith. By your very simplistic understanding of what it takes to convert to Islam you can now be considered a Muslim since you have recited (what you didn’t know that writing something qualifies as reciting something?) the Shahada and I’m sure we can get one of the Muslim posters on the forum to let us know he or she has seen your post.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Well, a secular school has no business making such an affirmation.

But the Athanasian Creed is neither here nor there on this issue.

As has been pointed out over and over, you can’t say Muslims don’t worship the same God we do and not say the same thing about Jews. And you can’t reasonably say that post-Christian Jews worship a false god but pre-Christian Jews worshiped the true God, when there’s no evidence that pre-Christian Jews believed in the Trinity either. You can say, if you like, that Muslims and Jews are all bound for hell, and you can cite the AC at that point (though I would interpret it differently, along the lines of Vatican II). But that is not the same thing at all.

Edwin

Is the school affirming as in “This is the absolute truth” or as in “This is what Islam teaches and what Muslims believe”? There’s a difference between the two.

 

[Bballer32]

Sorry to butt in but I would just like to throw in a comment, which may (or may not) help the conversation:

Aren’t schools banned from talking about religion? No school is apparently supposed to teach about religions such as Christianity but yet they talk about Islam and go in depth to it. I mean my goodness make up your mind hahahaha

I don’t know what to think of this, but I guess Islam isn’t a religion by reasons that it is still taught in schools when Religion is not supposed to be taught. Logic…

God Bless,

Bballer32

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Sorry to butt in but I would just like to throw in a comment, which may (or may not) help the conversation:

Aren’t schools banned from talking about religion? No school is apparently supposed to teach about religions such as Christianity but yet they talk about Islam and go in depth to it. I mean my goodness make up your mind hahahaha

I don’t know what to think of this, but I guess Islam isn’t a religion by reasons that it is still taught in schools when Religion is not supposed to be taught. Logic…

God Bless,

Bballer32

They are banned from teaching religion, but not about religion. Let’s go with the assumption that schools can’t mention religion at all. How exactly do you talk about the history of the Middle East and North Africa without mentioning Islam and Judaism, Europe without mentioning Christianity, Judaism, or Roman and Greek paganism, or India without mentioning Hinduism or Buddhism?

 

[Bballer32]

They are banned from teaching religion, but not about religion. Let’s go with the assumption that schools can’t mention religion at all. How exactly do you talk about the history of the Middle East and North Africa without mentioning Islam and Judaism, Europe without mentioning Christianity, Judaism, or Roman and Greek paganism, or India without mentioning Hinduism or Buddhism?

Good Point

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Congratulations on your conversion to the Islamic faith. By your very simplistic understanding of what it takes to convert to Islam you can now be considered a Muslim since you have recited (what you didn’t know that writing something qualifies as reciting something?) the Shahada and I’m sure we can get one of the Muslim posters on the forum to let us know he or she has seen your post.

It is unfortunate, that you miss the main subject to this discussion of Islam being introduced and taught in a school curriculum.

Mr. Wood has a legitimate concern for his daughter. When one professes the tenants of Islam and recite publicly a profession of the Islam’s prophet Muhammad and Allah becomes a Muslim of Islam. No one who becomes a Muslim can leave Islam, without the death warrant Islam places on each Muslim who decides to leave or convert out of Islam.

I don’t think you understand the severity of Mr. Woods concern, nor does the school board by it’s ignorance of Islam.

I would be interested in learning who is the leadership responsible for approving this Islam curriculum? Whether that school board official (leader) be a Muslim who knows what is being introduced here into the curriculum or a non-Muslim who is ignorant of Islam’s indoctrination.

It’s rare that a Muslim will comment on anything negative about Islam, when Islam is front and center and Islam is being promoted publicly. The Muslims will respond, if Islam is removed after it has been approved to teach Islam in a public school. So far as the fighting to keep Islam in the curriculum resides on the side of the authority. I find it rare of a Muslim to engage, who sits back and allow Islam’s enemies fight it out first. If Islam’s curriculum is removed or changed to the Muslims dissatisfaction, then the Muslim’s will come to Islam’s defense.

I would love for a Shia and Sunni Muslim to give their interpretations of Islam’s indoctrination to open your eyes here. It would be more delightful, if we can hear from the other five different Muslim Islamic interpretations of Islam.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

They are banned from teaching religion, but not about religion. Let’s go with the assumption that schools can’t mention religion at all. How exactly do you talk about the history of the Middle East and North Africa without mentioning Islam and Judaism, Europe without mentioning Christianity, Judaism, or Roman and Greek paganism, or India without mentioning Hinduism or Buddhism?

History can be taught without baptizing, circumcision and professing or reciting the tenants of Islam’s indoctrination. You insult the legitimacy of the education system.

History can be taught the same way congress passed laws against the morals of Christianity to kill our unborn children. Under the protection of the constitution for the U.S to separate church and state. When the U.S courts outlawed the display of the 10 commandments in our courthouses, by which our laws of the land are based upon.

If the U.S can pass laws such as these, then our schools can teach religion that is held by historical figures, but not teach any religion of indoctrination to a religion.

Your point does not address Mr. Woods concern of Islamic indoctrination of the teaching curriculum. Your view appears to lay with the ignorance of the teacher, school board faculty, the school boards official document which are all ignorant of Islam’s indoctrination.

Would you object to this same teacher, taking simple water and demonstrating a physical baptism with the Trinity pronounced?? Do you think a Muslim parent or Jewish parent would object to this same teacher demonstrating a Christian baptism, or a Jewish circumcision?? This is Mr. Woods concern, which the school is ignorant of.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

It is unfortunate, that you miss the main subject to this discussion of Islam being introduced and taught in a school curriculum.

Mr. Wood has a legitimate concern for his daughter. When one professes the tenants of Islam and recite publicly a profession of the Islam’s prophet Muhammad and Allah becomes a Muslim of Islam. No one who becomes a Muslim can leave Islam, without the death warrant Islam places on each Muslim who decides to leave or convert out of Islam.

I don’t think you understand the severity of Mr. Woods concern, nor does the school board by it’s ignorance of Islam.

I would be interested in learning who is the leadership responsible for approving this Islam curriculum? Whether that school board official (leader) be a Muslim who knows what is being introduced here into the curriculum or a non-Muslim who is ignorant of Islam’s indoctrination.

It’s rare that a Muslim will comment on anything negative about Islam, when Islam is front and center and Islam is being promoted publicly. The Muslims will respond, if Islam is removed after it has been approved to teach Islam in a public school. So far as the fighting to keep Islam in the curriculum resides on the side of the authority. I find it rare of a Muslim to engage, who sits back and allow Islam’s enemies fight it out first. If Islam’s curriculum is removed or changed to the Muslims dissatisfaction, then the Muslim’s will come to Islam’s defense.

I would love for a Shia and Sunni Muslim to give their interpretations of Islam’s indoctrination to open your eyes here. It would be more delightful, if we can hear from the other five different Muslim Islamic interpretations of Islam.

I’m not missing the point at all. You claimed that all it takes to be a Muslim is to recite the Shahada and have a Muslim witness it, you recited the Shahada and now all we are waiting for for you to complete your conversion to Islam is for a Muslim poster to acknowledge they saw your post in which you recited the Shahada. Or perhaps your understanding of what it takes to convert to Islam is in error?

Or are we talking about earlier in which someone with your forum screen name objected to Muslims using peaceful means to reshape society to better fit their values and beliefs and you invalidating the claim of the person with the same screen name as you by posting that Islam only succeeds through conflict?

As for Mr. Woods, rather odd everyone seems to forget the reason he went to a lawyer at all was because he was banned from the school after getting verbally abusive with school employees and threatening to come to the school and stop classes if the school continued to use it’s state approved curriculum which it has been using for years and which he apparently had no issue with prior to this.