"Islamic Jesus" Hits Iranian Movie Screens

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thedavidwilson said:
But are they correct? Hitler would say the same thing about Nazism and killing Jews. Is that correct?
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If you are asking my personal opinion on which religion is the “one and only true religion” that makes all others false, I would have to say “none” because I am not a monotheist. If you are asking my personal opinion on which religion most accurately reflects my experience of spiritual reality, I would have to say, “Mine,” which is polytheistic.

So, the answer would have to be, “No, I don’t think they are any more correct than you are about spiritual reality based on my experiences” when you get right down to it. But my beliefs about Jesus are not the topic of this thread.

Neither of the above changes my opinion that I really don’t see any difference in the fact that the Muslims made a movie as an evangelical tool that reflected their theological beliefs about Jesus which does not agree with the theological beliefs of many non-Muslims and the fact that Christians have made hundreds of movies as evangelical tools that reflected their theological beliefs about God which do not agree with the theological beliefs of hundreds of millions of non-Christians.

I simply don’t see why anyone is so surprised at that occurrence or so upset. Obviously, the mere existence of a movie that contradicts your beliefs does not in some way compel you to alter those beliefs, or you would have given up on many of them decades ago at least. Now if they were saying “this is what Catholics believe about Jesus” then I might see an issue, but it’s “this is what Muslims believe about Jesus” as far as I can tell.
 
KarenNC said:
Obviously, the mere existence of a movie that contradicts your beliefs does not in some way compel you to alter those beliefs, or you would have given up on many of them decades ago at least.
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This movie does not just contradict my beliefs but historical fact. It contradicts the Truth. That is the issue with this movie and Islam. Islam is based on lies.
 
Personally, I would be interested in seeing this movie and frankly I appreciate the idea that they are interested in sharing with us their teachings…
 
thedavidwilson said:
This movie does not just contradict my beliefs but historical fact. It contradicts the Truth. That is the issue with this movie and Islam. Islam is based on lies.
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Which particular historical fact, so that I am clear on your premise?
 
KarenNC said:
Which particular historical fact, so that I am clear on your premise?
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Jesus died on the cross. When the Romans crucified someone they made sure they died. It was a death sentence and once you were on that cross there was no way out. That was the purpose of piercing his side. If it was not Jesus on the cross then why did the Jewish leaders (the enimies of Jesus) not complain about this? Jesus represented a mortal threat to their postiion (so they thought). It seems like they would have made a stink if Jesus was not on the cross.

This is just one example of the lies present in the islamic religion.
 
isaac.madsen said:
Then again, the gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke, John) are well-known from dedicated research to have been written by different men than those they were named after. I’m curious where I’d be able to get a copy of the film being discussed. I don’t believe in Islamic teachings, but then again I wasn’t raised in the Middle-East. 😉
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For the record, the notion that the four canonical gospels were not, in fact, written by the men for which they are named is only a theory.

For a look at the other view… churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/authors-gospels-1.htm

It is a lengthy read.
 
thedavidwilson said:
Jesus died on the cross. When the Romans crucified someone they made sure they died. It was a death sentence and once you were on that cross there was no way out. That was the purpose of piercing his side. If it was not Jesus on the cross then why did the Jewish leaders (the enimies of Jesus) not complain about this? Jesus represented a mortal threat to their postiion (so they thought). It seems like they would have made a stink if Jesus was not on the cross.
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Ok. That’s step one. Now step two. What is your source for these facts other than the sacred writings and teachings of your religion?
 
KarenNC said:
Ok. That’s step one. Now step two. What is your source for these facts other than the sacred writings and teachings of your religion?
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Here are some contemporary writings.

In his Annals, Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 CE) writes that Christians

“derived their name and origin from Christ, who, in the reign of Tiberius, had ***suffered death ***by the sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate” (Annals 15.44)

Thallus and Jesus
In a lost work referred to by Julius Africanus in the third century, the pagan writer Thallus reportedly claimed that Jesus’s death was accompanied by an earthquake and darkness. However, the original text is in fact lost, and we can confirm neither the contents of the text or its date. It is possible that Thallus was merely repeating what was told to him by Christians, or that the passage which Africanus cites is a later interpolation. Outside of the New Testament, no other references to earthquakes or unusual darkness occur in the contemporary literature. This is very surprising, given the effect these sorts of events would presumably have had on the populace.
Pliny the Younger and Jesus
Pliny the Younger, writing near 100 CE, corresponded regularly with the emperor Trajan. In these writings, Pliny specifically mentions and describes the beliefs and practices of Christians in Asia Minor, and asks Trajan’s advice about what action to take against them, if any. However, Pliny’s writings provide no independent confirmation of the events of the New Testament, but merely show that there were indeed Christians living in Asia Minor.

On Crucifixion (check the sources of this article yourself).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion
 
KarenNC said:
Frankly I don’t see it as a lot different than Christians who put out books, films, do lectures, etc on what the Hebrew Scriptures “really mean” (ie that they exist only as a foreshadowing of Christ rather than what the Jews say they mean). Things like the Christian redactions of the Passover seder, etc.

Such are basically Christians “seeking common ground with [Jews] by urging them to accept the [Chrisian] view of Jesus, [with divinity and messiahship].”

Muslims make Muslim movies showing Muslim theological teachings.
Christians make Christian movies showing Christian theological teachings.
Jews make Jewish movies showing Jewish theological teachings.
etc, etc, etc.

🤷
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This particular movie is a complete contradiction of what Christianity teaches, and goes hand in hand with the letter the Islamic scholars sent to the Pope urging Christians to believe in God “without ascribing partners to him”. In other words, stop believing in your Trinitarian God, strip Jesus of his divinity and just relegate him to the status of “prophet” and a lesser one to Muhammad.

Vickie
 
KarenNC said:
Ok. That’s step one. Now step two. What is your source for these facts other than the sacred writings and teachings of your religion?
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I’d like to add to thedavidwilson’s post above…

I think, also, the report of Pontius Pilate, Governor of Judea, which was sent to Tiberius Caesar in Rome, agrees with the graphic description of a lunar eclipse that occurred during the crucifixion. It mentions “the moon, which was like blood…” (Unfortunately, I’ve lost my Web links to this.)

(Incidently enough, there was a lunar eclipse on Friday 3rd April, 33AD.)
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
I’d like to add to thedavidwilson’s post above…

I think, also, the report of Pontius Pilate, Governor of Judea, which was sent to Tiberius Caesar in Rome, agrees with the graphic description of a lunar eclipse that occurred during the crucifixion. It mentions “the moon, which was like blood…” (Unfortunately, I’ve lost my Web links to this.)

(Incidently enough, there was a lunar eclipse on Friday 3rd April, 33AD.)
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So, then does the movie claim that there was definitely no lunar eclipse on that date? I don’t know. That would indeed be an example of an error of historical fact rather than theology. sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/LEhistory/LEplot/LE0033Apr03P.gif shows the eclipse and where it would be visible.
 
thedavidwilson said:
Here are some contemporary writings.

In his Annals, Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 CE) writes that Christians

“derived their name and origin from Christ, who, in the reign of Tiberius, had ***suffered death ***by the sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate” (Annals 15.44)

Thallus and Jesus
In a lost work referred to by Julius Africanus in the third century, the pagan writer Thallus reportedly claimed that Jesus’s death was accompanied by an earthquake and darkness. However, the original text is in fact lost, and we can confirm neither the contents of the text or its date. It is possible that Thallus was merely repeating what was told to him by Christians, or that the passage which Africanus cites is a later interpolation. Outside of the New Testament, no other references to earthquakes or unusual darkness occur in the contemporary literature. This is very surprising, given the effect these sorts of events would presumably have had on the populace.
Pliny the Younger and Jesus
Pliny the Younger, writing near 100 CE, corresponded regularly with the emperor Trajan. In these writings, Pliny specifically mentions and describes the beliefs and practices of Christians in Asia Minor, and asks Trajan’s advice about what action to take against them, if any. However, Pliny’s writings provide no independent confirmation of the events of the New Testament, but merely show that there were indeed Christians living in Asia Minor.

On Crucifixion (check the sources of this article yourself).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion
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I agree that these are more contemporary than something written in 1000 CE or 2008 CE, but they are not exactly contemporary to the actual event, coming about 25 to 50 years after the fact by people who were not present. Basically they appear to be reports of what the Christians told these Romans about their history. We can gather from this that there was a group of followers who named themselves after religious leader by the name of Jesus in that area at that time who was put to death, not whether the details of the event as written in the sacred writings of one religious group are more accurate than the details of the event as written in the sacred writings of another religious group.

So we are back to requiring a basic premise that the Bible is indeed historically accurate when it gives the details of the death of Jesus and the subsequent events such as the Resurrection and appearances. The same is true of the Koran. This is an issue of faith and I am not surprised that Christians would consider their sacred writings to be accurate, nor that the Muslims would consider theirs to be accurate instead.

Ultimately we come to the fact that this was a Muslim movie, made and shown in a Muslim country, with the stated intention of illustrating Muslim theology with the person who made it saying that he wants to show what Muslims teach about Jesus so that perhaps Christians can get an accurate understanding of those teachings. Why in the world would anyone expect it to reflect Christian teachings on Jesus?
 
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