Islamic Justice?

[Vile_Servant]

When a man cut off (the hands and feet of) those who had stolen his camels and he had their eyes put out by fire (heated nails), he was reprimanded.

When a woman tied a cat and did not provide it with food, nor did she set it free to catch insects, thereby causing it to die, she was thrown into Hell-Fire.

am i missing something here?

 

[famdigy]

When a man cut off (the hands and feet of) those who had stolen his camels and he had their eyes put out by fire (heated nails), he was reprimanded.

When a woman tied a cat and did not provide it with food, nor did she set it free to catch insects, thereby causing it to die, she was thrown into Hell-Fire.

am i missing something here?

you got it right, there’s something wrong with that picture.

 

[Kadaveri]

Well the two aren’t the same. The first was a man dealing out vigilante ‘justice’ on someone stealing his valued property, which although unIslamic and distasteful for most 21st century Westerners was not an unusual response in 7th century Arabia. The second was a story of someone being cruel for no reason, the judge being God, and the lesson being that cruelty will get you in Hellfire.

 

[Mosacked]

When a man cut off (the hands and feet of) those who had stolen his camels and he had their eyes put out by fire (heated nails), he was reprimanded.

When a woman tied a cat and did not provide it with food, nor did she set it free to catch insects, thereby causing it to die, she was thrown into Hell-Fire.

am i missing something here?

You missed nothing. We cannot compare islam to the moral standards of today. Doing that will lead us nowhere because muslims believe in NOT questioning what their allah teaches even if it makes no sense to us.

Does it make sense for an old man who claims himself a prophet to have sex with infant biological girls? No it doesn’t.
Does it make sense for a man to kill, rob, lie, rape & commit incest to be a prophet? No it doesn’t.
Does it make sense for a man to claim to be able to lead you to salvation but himself jumping in terrible fright for his own judgement? Not it doesn’t.
Does it make sense for a deity to offer sex after your physical death for your works? No it doesn’t.
Does it make sense for a deity to tell its followers to kill people for it? No it doesn’t.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[Sam_777]

Does it make sense for an old man who claims himself a prophet to have sex with infant biological girls? No it doesn’t.
Does it make sense for a man to kill, rob, lie, rape & commit incest to be a prophet? No it doesn’t.
Does it make sense for a man to claim to be able to lead you to salvation but himself jumping in terrible fright for his own judgement? Not it doesn’t.
Does it make sense for a deity to offer sex after your physical death for your works? No it doesn’t.
Does it make sense for a deity to tell its followers to kill people for it? No it doesn’t.

 

[Steven_John]

Well the two aren’t the same. The first was a man dealing out vigilante ‘justice’ on someone stealing his valued property, which although unIslamic and distasteful for most 21st century Westerners was not an unusual response in 7th century Arabia. The second was a story of someone being cruel for no reason, the judge being God, and the lesson being that cruelty will get you in Hellfire.

AoA,
this makes some sense of it to me.

i guess it would to the other posters, without getting into the other stuff added but staying on topic.

I am keen to read their responses.

May G-d bless and guide us all as we submit unto Him

 

[Mosacked]

Well the two aren’t the same. The first was a man dealing out vigilante ‘justice’ on someone stealing his valued property, which although unIslamic and distasteful for most 21st century Westerners was not an unusual response in 7th century Arabia. The second was a story of someone being cruel for no reason, the judge being God, and the lesson being that cruelty will get you in Hellfire.

If one goes to hell for mistreating cats, where does one go for mistreating HUMANS? (Eg. Muhammad and muslims beheading, cutting off limbs, killing people). They go heaven?

No wonder we have so much problem speaking to muslims.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

 

[Steven_John]

AoA

Kadaveri,
I did not read into your post that the first man was going to heaven, from you saying it was Un Islamic i assumed it was not pleasing to G-d.

But at some level CAF is a place where people read in what suits their thinking.

Maybe that why some people cant communicate with others.

 

[Mosacked]

If one goes to hell for mistreating cats, where does one go for mistreating HUMANS? (Eg. Muhammad and muslims beheading, cutting off limbs, killing people). They go heaven?

No wonder we have so much problem speaking to muslims.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

Then indeed, not only is mistreating cats UN-islamic and deserving of Hell Fire, mistreating humans (eg. Muhammad and muslims beheading, cutting off limbs, killing people) is ultra-UN-islamic and surely Hell Bound.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[Vile_Servant]

AoA

Kadaveri,
I did not read into your post that the first man was going to heaven, from you saying it was Un Islamic i assumed it was not pleasing to G-d.

But at some level CAF is a place where people read in what suits their thinking.

Maybe that why some people cant communicate with others.

the first man was the prophet Muhammed.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

If one goes to hell for mistreating cats, where does one go for mistreating HUMANS? (Eg. Muhammad and muslims beheading, cutting off limbs, killing people). They go heaven?QUOTE]

Not according to this guy:

In his religious ruling, delivered in London, Dr Qadri says that Islam forbids the massacre of innocent citizens and suicide bombings.

 

[Steven_John]

the first man was the prophet Muhammed.

Doesn’t change what i posted did you quote and respond to me because it does for you?

It may be worth noting i also did not offer i took from the posters comment the first man (pbuh) was going to hell.

I dont know who sits where at Our Fathers table, I dont know who goes to heaven and who to hell, I leave judgement for Our Father through Our Brother.
And of course the appointed here on CAF, (this comment not directly at you).

I really dont understand your point quoting and responding to me unless the starter of the thread was a baiter in which case why would they want to bait me?

I am only called to do my best to love you all.

Or if they were out to bait others why would you try hook me?

No one needs hook me, you only need ask and i will open what i can for you of Our Fathers house.

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see

 

[Steven_John]

I chuckle how some people say Quran and Hadiths are wrong or untrue if the are seen to be against the persons religion.

But if they can be seen against the teaching of Islam the person asserts them as fact.

Yes Muslims do the same thing in reverse with the bible.

 

[Mosacked]

Mosacked;6351389:

If one goes to hell for mistreating cats, where does one go for mistreating HUMANS? (Eg. Muhammad and muslims beheading, cutting off limbs, killing people). They go heaven?QUOTE]

Not according to this guy:

From here: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8544531.stm

Thank God for Muslims like this academic

Yes, thank God(Yahweh). Otherwise more muslims will be practising the teachings of allah and slaughtering non-muslims according to the instructions of the quran.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[Vile_Servant]

Doesn’t change what i posted did you quote and respond to me because it does for you?

It may be worth noting i also did not offer i took from the posters comment the first man (pbuh) was going to hell.

I dont know who sits where at Our Fathers table, I dont know who goes to heaven and who to hell, I leave judgement for Our Father through Our Brother.
And of course the appointed here on CAF, (this comment not directly at you).

I really dont understand your point quoting and responding to me unless the starter of the thread was a baiter in which case why would they want to bait me?

I am only called to do my best to love you all.

Or if they were out to bait others why would you try hook me?

No one needs hook me, you only need ask and i will open what i can for you of Our Fathers house.

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see

dear steven,

the whole point is posting this topic is because many catholics, including myself, are baffled by the principles of justice in Islam. this is not to say that all Muslims are evil (they are not) and is certainly not a personal attack on you.

however, as you must be aware, at CAF the Catholic Faith is subjected to rigorous analysis, exegesis and debate. in the search for the truth, who by definition is God who is infinite Truth, infinite Love and infinite Life, other religions must also be subject to the same rigorous scrutiny. for we are invited to discern not only by the light of faith, but also by the light of reason.

i did not post this thread for the sole purpose of “baiting” or “hooking” you. If there was any ad hominem against you or any other Muslim who has posted in this thread, pls let me know. I question the ideology of Islam, not the goodness of individual Muslims. I invite all our Muslim friends to give their views on the topic. indeed, some have said it does not look right, some have said that it was ok for the 7th century, perhaps not so ok today. if CAF does not afford an opportunity for the airing of (often) diverse and opposing views, then what is the point of CAF?

our Muslim friends come to CAF, knowing full well the Catholic belief in the Trinity, the Divinity of Jesus, etc. To repeatedly state the Tawheed, or to deny Catholic doctrine in these forums, would that also not be considered “baiting” our Catholic friends?

I think we are all sensible enough to know that we can agree to debate ideology, without getting personal.

blessings and peace.

 

[Steven_John]

dear steven,

the whole point is posting this topic is because many catholics, including myself, are baffled by the principles of justice in Islam. this is not to say that all Muslims are evil (they are not) and is certainly not a personal attack on you.

Blessings to you,
Sorry if i was too defensive at you responding to me, i see that you are the thread starter.
Unless you did not know this when you started the thread you baited me. It changes the whole question seriously and obviously or you would not have bothered to tell me.

however, as you must be aware, at CAF the Catholic Faith is subjected to rigorous analysis, exegesis and debate. in the search for the truth, who by definition is God who is infinite Truth, infinite Love and infinite Life, other religions must also be subject to the same rigorous scrutiny. for we are invited to discern not only by the light of faith, but also by the light of reason.

It is not what but how, this baiting issue is the only thing that has bothered me as you are very loving in your posts to people, not so for many others.

i did not post this thread for the sole purpose of “baiting” or “hooking” you.

I see now it was not me you were baiting but Muslims

I invite all our Muslim friends to give their views on the topic.

Again the thread seemed open to us all not just Muslims it seemed more the posters in your threads were loading it with off topic issues.

indeed, some have said it does not look right, some have said that it was ok for the 7th century, perhaps not so ok today. if CAF does not afford an opportunity for the airing of (often) diverse and opposing views, then what is the point of CAF?

Where in my post did is say this is not what CAF is for, i was addressing baiting.

our Muslim friends come to CAF, knowing full well the Catholic belief in the Trinity, the Divinity of Jesus, etc. To repeatedly state the Tawheed, or to deny Catholic doctrine in these forums, would that also not be considered “baiting” our Catholic friends?

Look i spend lots of my time defending Catholic beliefs, not much here as i am not needed for this except for some PMs when things go out of wack. But if you really look at lots of my posts i encourage Catholics to be Catholic.

I think we are all sensible enough to know that we can agree to debate ideology, without getting personal.

blessings and peace.

Why would you suggest of me of getting personal? better you quote me so as iron sharpens iron you too can help me be sharpened.

You know i do agree with what you are looking for at CAF in your post here but reckon you should refocus to Christians who are outside your attitude. The Muslims here have been very polite and i just questioned baiting, asking part of you question with holding information that was really relevant to what your heart was asking.

I also respect that if CAF allows trolling i am out of line.

Blessings to you and yours

 

[Vile_Servant]

i just questioned baiting, asking part of you question with holding information that was really relevant to what your heart was asking.

I also respect that if CAF allows trolling i am out of line.

Blessings to you and yours

Blessings to you too.

I am sorry if the manner of my posting seemed like baiting to you and Muslims.

Would it make any difference if I had posted from the start the Hadiths from which the examples were taken (which state that the man in the first example was the prophet Muhammad, and the woman in second example was a Jew)? It would change not the fact of what is taught in Islam, but it may lead to a more heated and defensive response from other posters.

It is heartening to note that of all the responses that have been posted so far, none have commented that Islamic law favors a man over a woman, or that Islamic law favors a prophet over an ordinary man.

On hindsight, posting the original Hadiths might have been a wiser course of action, although I expect the accusation of baiting Muslims (with a provocative topic) will no doubt also be levelled at me in that case.

 

[Steven_John]

Bless ya Bro,
praise be to G-d we are blessed to talk.
If i had even know it was a hadith i may have had some personal comment as well as speaking on the other poster.

Or maybe kept out of it I am least called to speak on hadiths, I have not read them all, doubt any one has. There are lots who have read the top 5 or 6 collections but there are so many.

They are stated as narrations by Islamic religion and have been said to rated in authenticity. Note worthy is how late they were written, 300 years i think, but you would need to check it out.

I have enough in the Quran i am trying to get my head around so most often would stay out of hadith discussions.

Blessings to you all