Islamic teaching questions

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You should not backtrack. You agreed that Jesus is the way and that he will be with us till the end of the world.

There is no two ways about it. Either that is true or it is false. If it is true then all else are false.
 
mhmtas63, I did not say there is a mathematical proof for anything involving faith or religion.

This is not intended as a refutation of Islam or the faith of Muslims. I respect and admire much in Islam. You think what you are stating is a proof, but it is a proof to you and to other Muslims only. “Proofs” advanced by Muslims or Christians or Baha’is or Buddhists seem like proof only to those advancing them. Ultimately faith, belief is a personal choice at best, a cultural inheritance in most cases, and the result of coercion at worst.

If I tell you that a particularly good Bordeaux red is a proof of the existence of God, I am really saying that to my palette this wine is sublime and evidence of something absolutely wonderful, even divine. As a good Muslim, you might not wish to taste the wine, and in any case, you may not be partial to French reds. So my proof here is just mine. I taste it, I affirm that it suggests to me the spark of the divine. If I gave some to an atheist (or someone not as interested in wine) that person might like the wine, but not exactly see it as a proof of the existence of God. So the proof for me is not the proof for you.
 
mhmtas63 said:
  1. Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, We will be its guardian. Al-Hijr(15)
God do not allow His revelation to be corrupted. The revelation which came to Moses and Jesus and previous prophets were some changed. So God corrected that by Quran.
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the apostles taught Jesus crucified, died and resurrected from the beginning.
 
Usbek_de_Perse said:
mhmtas63, I did not say there is a mathematical proof for anything involving faith or religion.

This is not intended as a refutation of Islam or the faith of Muslims. I respect and admire much in Islam. You think what you are stating is a proof, but it is a proof to you and to other Muslims only. “Proofs” advanced by Muslims or Christians or Baha’is or Buddhists seem like proof only to those advancing them. Ultimately faith, belief is a personal choice at best, a cultural inheritance in most cases, and the result of coercion at worst.

If I tell you that a particularly good Bordeaux red is a proof of the existence of God, I am really saying that to my palette this wine is sublime and evidence of something absolutely wonderful, even divine. As a good Muslim, you might not wish to taste the wine, and in any case, you may not be partial to French reds. So my proof here is just mine. I taste it, I affirm that it suggests to me the spark of the divine. If I gave some to an atheist (or someone not as interested in wine) that person might like the wine, but not exactly see it as a proof of the existence of God. So the proof for me is not the proof for you.
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A mountain looks like a small stone from very long distance. Facts of Qur’an and Islam are great as mountains. To see in original form so you must get close. Every evidence is experienced. As I say religious issues are not maths problems to solve through a formula.
 
Reuben_J said:
You should not backtrack. You agreed that Jesus is the way and that he will be with us till the end of the world.

There is no two ways about it. Either that is true or it is false. If it is true then all else are false.
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Nobody is the authority in our issue to make something true or false except God.
 
mhmtas63 said:
For verse 10:94 in Qur’an there are many different interpretations. And I cannot give a certain answer.
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But if Qur’an is written out to to have 1 interpretation then why is there many?
(with all due reapect)
 
feed_me said:
But if Qur’an is written out to to have 1 interpretation then why is there many?
(with all due reapect)
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With interpretation I mean “Tafsir” and in English “comment” . There are thousands of Tafsir. Because Qur’an is eternal word of God and every verse may have thousands of meaning. Ofcourse there is a main meaning but everyone and every times could have a specific one.
 
PrisonerOfChrist said:
It’s dangerous for Muhammad to consult a corrupt people in time of his doubt. It would just add to his confusion if he were to find contradictions in revelations. Surely the all wise Allah would have better advise for him than to consult people with corrupt revelation…
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Muhammad was not in doubt with revelation. Muhammad had seen angel Gabriel (Ruh-ul kudus or Holy Spirit) and through miracle of Miraj He had seen Heavens, Hell and God. Then discourse refer to people around Muhammad. There were Jews around and they were aware of revelation. If they were in doubt about revelation came to Muhammad so they could look at previous revelation. Because there were attributes of Muhammad in previous revelations.

And corruption case… God awaken people of book not to interpret revelation with personal inclinations. That is corruption.

Ofcourse consulting corrupt people is not suitable. But God do not say all revelation were corrupted and they could evaluate and check revelation came to Muhammad.
 
Thats the problem if everybody stayed with the main meaning then there wouldnt be all these different splits and messes that we have today.
mhmtas63 said:
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PrisonerOfChrist:
It’s dangerous for Muhammad to consult a corrupt people in time of his doubt. It would just add to his confusion if he were to find contradictions in revelations. Surely the all wise Allah would have better advise for him than to consult people with corrupt revelation…
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Muhammad was not in doubt with revelation. Muhammad had seen angel Gabriel (Ruh-ul kudus or Holy Spirit) and through miracle of Miraj He had seen Heavens, Hell and God. Then discourse refer to people around Muhammad. There were Jews around and they were aware of revelation.
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ah but see if Muhammad were to test the spirits at that time, the scripture 1 John 4 1-6 then he would have seen that those “angels” were frauds.
 
mhmtas63 said:
Muhammad was not in doubt with revelation.
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__“So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters” – Surah 10:94

It’s clear Muhammad did have doubts about the revelations he received from Allah.

For Muhammad to consult the Christians; their fundamental and most important doctrine is Jesus died and rose from the dead.

Your argument is fallible with no legs to stand on.
 
PrisonerOfChrist said:
It’s clear Muhammad did have doubts about the revelations he received from Allah.
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As I said before there are different interpretations of that verse. I wrote what I conceive. Some interpretations say discourse is direct to Muhammad. In that case I think that kind of doubt is not what we understand directly. Once Moses wanted to see God. God asked “are you in doubt”. Moses said no but to be satisfied. Muhammad was a human. And meeting an angel is not usual. Heart need to be satisfied.

We do not call Muhammad with divine attributions. God awaken prophet Muhammad sometimes because He was a human and He could make mistake. But God protect and prevent prophet not to make mistake in religion. Muhammad was a model human to follow. So we also may have some doubdts in religion. God taught people how to walk.
 
PrisonerOfChrist said:
For Muhammad to consult the Christians; their fundamental and most important doctrine is Jesus died and rose from the dead.

Your argument is fallible with no legs to stand on
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Doctrines are not from revelation. God order to ask about revelation but not doctrines. People of book may have some wrong interpretation and doctrines but that do not change the situation that they have revelation.
 
People all times changed revelation but God sent another prophet to correct. The last revelation is Qur’an and last prophet is Muhammad so God will not allow revelation to be corrupted any more.
 
The trap of evils is that they always lure people away from the Son or the Savior, so they can take the souls after death. Quran was written by the war winners on their favorite and if you read Quran before knowing Jesus’ gospels in the bible then you would love Muslim.
 
mhmtas63 said:
People all times changed revelation but God sent another prophet to correct. The last revelation is Qur’an and last prophet is Muhammad so God will not allow revelation to be corrupted any more.
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Not really. A revelation, if from God, does not ever change, become errant or lost. A word from God is like God, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. What Prophets of old did was re-establish the meaning of the Word of God not the Word of God it’self. The people the Prophets addressed had access to the Divine Revelation on earth but had let the true meaning of it slip from their minds and lives. That’s why Prophets of the God of Abraham came from within and not from without. No one knows the testimony of a people in the intimate way the people themselves do.

The Revelation was not lost but had to be understood again. The Prophets never said that they came because the truth that God revealed to them was lost or that their purpose was to re-establish what God had already established on earth. Muhammed is the first to make that claim. They came to tend what God had planted not to replant what God had planted. Can something God plants be uprooted?
 
Benadam said:
and last prophet is Muhammad so God will not allow revelation to be corrupted any more.
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Then where is the original revelation came to Jesus? In Gospels that revelation is being narrated by other people but not from Jesus directly. And in OT! There are some passages which do not look like pure revelation.
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toddy said:
The trap of evils is that they always lure people away from the Son or the Savior, so they can take the souls after death. Quran was written by the war winners on their favorite and if you read Quran before knowing Jesus’ gospels in the bible then you would love Muslim.
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The trap of evils and devils is that they lure people from faith and good deeds. Qur’an(God) call people to believe in Jesus(Son). Jesus is a Savior and non Muslim reject that. But ofcourse there is an excess situation for some people( that they asssume Jesus as God!)

Prophet Muhammad and Sahabas were not merely warrior. That is as if Muhammad did nothing except war! But Muhammad was alone in the beginning and He preached people for about 10 years in very negative conditions and many verses of Qur’an were revealed in that bad times. People became Muslim by free will. Pagans tried to destroy Islam and Faith by swords so God allowed prophet and Muslims to protect Faith and Islam by swords. Muslims do that to protect faith but not to expand. Later Muslims established a state to protect and expand Islam.

Qur’an(God) do not say any evil thing about Jesus and his religion. But just notice about some heretic doctrines which were fabricated later.
 
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