Islam's Conception of God

[Joseph_Alison]

Who was Jesus’ father?

According to the Noble Qur’an, Jesus did not have a Father and the Noble Qur’an narrates the story how it came to be.

According to the NT, Jesus did and did not have a father either.
He did not have an earthly father for those who have read the NT after it has been written down.
He did have a father in the person of Joseph to the people in Jesus’ time looking to Joseph’s house from the outside (according to the way things are narrated in the Gospels). Which means that the people of his time did not know that Jesus was of a virgin birth. This poses very serious problems.

Joseph (of the house of David we are told), although not being his true father, was needed to trace the genealogy of Jesus back to king David (to fulfill a supposed prophecy). That’s why the virgin birth has been eclipsed, if not, go tell the Jews that this new baby without father (the first thing they will do is question his legitimacy), go tell them he has the blood of King David is streaming in his veins! No one will believe you.
All this tells me that Jesus’ life has been made up in the clear goal to match it with some of the supposed OT prophecies, in order to say that Jesus was the prophesized character.

Almadu’lillah (Praises be to Allah), the true story has been restored in the Noble Qur’an.

This is just a ramling, don’t pay attention.
Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam;

eleonardo:

I was a serious question.
Pax tecum.

Sorry Eleonardo.
Look here, there is a whealth of information which I hope will answer your question.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[exoflare]

Ermmm, how did you arrive at such a conclusion?

Adam did not have a father? Am I correct that this is what Muslims believe?

 

[joebaydi]

Adam did not have a father? Am I correct that this is what Muslims believe?

correct

 

[inJESUS]

Joseph, did u have the chance to read the apocryphal gospel of infacy? read it…am sure you won’t say alhamdulillah about the Quranic account

Jesus was born without earthly father and Joseph married Mary as commanded by God. That was the natural way it happened. Jesus’ birth is how He decided to come to us, it is not a miracle to prove he is the Messiah and none used it as a proof.

 

[inJESUS]

Joseph, i don’t know if you think Muhammad was the first one to say Jesus spoke in the cradle, but this is not true. Here :

1. We find what follows in the book of Joseph the high priest, who lived in the time of Christ. Some say that he is Caiaphas. He has said that **Jesus spoke, and, indeed, when He was lying in His cradle said to Mary His mother: I am Jesus, the Son of God, the Logos, whom thou hast brought forth, as the Angel Gabriel announced to thee; and my Father has sent me for the salvation of the world. **

of course Muhammad switched Jesus with the Muslim Isa who used Islamic terminologies

newadvent.org/fathers/0806.htm

Read this gospel from which Muhammad took the baby Jesus talking in cradle . You’ll realize it’s full of superstitions and magic and witchcraft you name it

There are other Quranic passages taken from man-made books, i’ll give another example : Jesus and the clay bird is taken from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas the Israelite

1. This child Jesus, when five years old, was playing in the ford of a mountain stream; and He collected the flowing waters into pools, and made them clear immediately, and by a word alone He made them obey Him. And having made some soft clay, He fashioned out of it twelve sparrows. And it was the Sabbath when He did these things. And there were also many other children playing with Him. And a certain Jew, seeing what Jesus was doing, playing on the Sabbath, went off immediately, and said to his father Joseph: Behold, thy son is at the stream, and has taken clay, and made of it twelve birds, and has profaned the Sabbath. And Joseph, coming to the place and seeing, cried out to Him, saying: Wherefore doest thou on the Sabbath what it is not lawful to do? And Jesus clapped His hands, and cried out to the sparrows, and said to them: Off you go! And the sparrows flew, and went off crying. And the Jews seeing this were amazed, and went away and reported to their chief men what they had seen Jesus doing.

Another funny thing in this gospel:

1. After that He was again passing through the village; and a boy ran up against Him, and struck His shoulder. And Jesus was angry, and said to him: Thou shalt not go back the way thou camest. And immediately he fell down dead.

newadvent.org/fathers/0846.htm

Read the rest of this gospel…and tell me alhamdullilah

 

[exoflare]

correct

Then why is this? Do you take a literalistic view that God created the first man - body AND soul - spontaneously from some dust? If you do, how does this leave room for evolution?

 

[joebaydi]

Then why is this? Do you take a literalistic view that God created the first man - body AND soul - spontaneously from some dust? If you do, how does this leave room for evolution?

My views concerning this matter are still uncertain. How do you define evolution? I have a feeling you are mistakening “Evolution” for the “Origins of Species” idea.

 

[exoflare]

My views concerning this matter are still uncertain. How do you define evolution? I have a feeling you are mistakening “Evolution” for the “Origins of Species” idea.

No, not really. I’m just saying that man’s body could have possibly evolved from other more primitive species, and the man identified as “Adam” represents the first human soul that God created. Therefore Adam could have had a physical father, but his spirit was created by God out of nothing. This is within the range of acceptable interpretations in the Church, as the central issue in Genesis is the creation of man as a spiritual being. It is also in conformity with the theory of evolution (the kind talked about by Augustine and others from his time on… not the “Origin of Species” stuff).

 

[Montalban]

According to the Noble Qur’an, Jesus did not have a Father and the Noble Qur’an narrates the story how it came to be.
Joseph.

So He’s not just like your or me or Muhammed!

 

[Joseph_Alison]

So He’s not just like your or me or Muhammed!

He is like me, you and Muhammad because he is a creation of the Most High, and he is not like me, you, and Muhammad because of the unconventional way he was conceived, but he is still a creation, albeit in a different way.
Can God create a human without father? Yes He can. Proof? Jesus!
Can God create a human without mother? Yes, He can. Proof? Adam and Eve!
Can God create a human without father and without mother? Yes, He can. Proof? Adam and Eve!

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[inJESUS]

Joseph kindly present to us the Quranic passages about Jesus’ birth and explain to us what happened from an Islamic point of view . thx.

 

[Angelos]

He is like me, you and Muhammad because he is a creation of the Most High, and he is not like me, you, and Muhammad because of the unconventional way he was conceived, but he is still a creation, albeit in a different way.
Can God create a human without father? Yes He can. Proof? Jesus!
Can God create a human without mother? Yes, He can. Proof? Adam and Eve!
Can God create a human without father and without mother? Yes, He can. Proof? Adam and Eve!

Salaam.
Joseph.

Hi Joseph

You seem to forget that Jesus was born of a virgin! Adam & Eve were not born, but created directly. In Jesus’ unique case, however, there was a mother, a pregnancy, and a birth without a father. Why was that?

The comparison between John the Baptist and Jesus’ birth will definitely help you answer my question above. Zechariah and Elizabeth wanted more than anything else to have a child (a son!), but they were unable to have **a son **due to their age and the problem of barrenness. Thus, God’ intervention was crucial for John’s birth, which made his parents rejoice. God performed a miracle when it was impossible for Zechariah & John to have a son, and John’s birth was the result of that miracle. Virgin Mary, on the other hand, had nothing to prevent her from having a child or a son in a natural way. Still, she conceived and gave birth to a son (why not **a daughter **rather than a son?) through a unique miracle: God’s direct intervention! It was not Mary who wanted to have Jesus, but only GOD!!!

Question: Why was there such a miracle when Mary could have had a son or a daughter through human means?

Answer: It was impossible for the Son of God to be born of an earthly father since no human was the source of Jesus’ incarnation. God gave Mary and - through her - the entire world His only Son in human form so as to make us rejoice in His love & salvation

Salaam to you & peace to everyone

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Hi Joseph
You seem to forget that Jesus was born of a virgin! Adam & Eve were not born, but created directly. In Jesus’ unique case, however, there was a mother, a pregnancy, and a birth without a father. Why was that?

The comparison between John the Baptist and Jesus’ birth will definitely help you answer my question above. Zechariah and Elizabeth wanted more than anything else to have a child (a son!), but they were unable to have **a son **due to their age and the problem of barrenness. Thus, God’ intervention was crucial for John’s birth, which made his parents rejoice. God performed a miracle when it was impossible for Zechariah & John to have a son, and John’s birth was the result of that miracle. Virgin Mary, on the other hand, had nothing to prevent her from having a child or a son in a natural way. Still, she conceived and gave birth to a son (why not **a daughter **rather than a son?) through a unique miracle: God’s direct intervention! It was not Mary who wanted to have Jesus, but only GOD!!!

Question: Why was there such a miracle when Mary could have had a son or a daughter through human means?

Answer: It was impossible for the Son of God to be born of an earthly father since no human was the source of Jesus’ incarnation. God gave Mary and - through her - the entire world His only Son in human form so as to make us rejoice in His love & salvation

Salaam to you & peace to everyone

Salaam Angelos;
Four questions:

1. Do you agree that a virgin birth is a miracle?
2. Do you agree that a miracle has to be seen?
3. Do you agree that a miracle has a purpose, i.e. intends to achieve something? if so,
4. If you answered yes to question 2, and according to the Biblical account, what was the achievement made through Jesus’s virgin birth miracle?
   Many Thanks.

Note: Remember one important thing when answering question 2: A supposed prophecy is made in the OT about a certain virgin birth.

Salaam as always.
Joseph.

PS: Tomster, if you are still reading this, please forgive this poor sinner for diverting your thread.

 

[joebaydi]

No, not really. I’m just saying that man’s body could have possibly evolved from other more primitive species, and the man identified as “Adam” represents the first human soul that God created. Therefore Adam could have had a physical father, but his spirit was created by God out of nothing. This is within the range of acceptable interpretations in the Church, as the central issue in Genesis is the creation of man as a spiritual being. It is also in conformity with the theory of evolution (the kind talked about by Augustine and others from his time on… not the “Origin of Species” stuff).

I see. You’ve put forward an interesting idea, however I don’t believe Adam had a physical father due to a range of scientific reasons. Evolution is without doubt a fact; I believe in it but the arguement of simple microbes “evolving” into large complex organisms simply falls apart under modern day scientific analysis. This leaves me to believe that God created humans (a specific Homo species) at a specific time at a particular place. The human population must have started with someone and that first human I believe was Adam.

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam Angelos;

Four questions:

 

[exoflare]

I see. You’ve put forward an interesting idea, however I don’t believe Adam had a physical father due to a range of scientific reasons. Evolution is without doubt a fact; I believe in it but the arguement of simple microbes “evolving” into large complex organisms simply falls apart under modern day scientific analysis. This leaves me to believe that God created humans (a specific Homo species) at a specific time at a particular place. The human population must have started with someone and that first human I believe was Adam.

Okay. I just didn’t know whether the Muslim view was supposed to be as literalistic as the “Fundamentalist” Christians, who say that God created the universe word-for-word like in Genesis, even to the last detail. I guess it’s not.

The other point I’m trying to make, though, is that it is not an article of Catholic belief whether or not Adam had a “father”. It is one of those things people are free to interpret as they wish. When you say Adam did not have a father, just be aware it may or may not jibe with any individual Catholic depending on their personal opinion. They won’t necessarily take it as a given.

 

[Montalban]

He is like me, you and Muhammad because he is a creation of the Most High, and he is not like me, you, and Muhammad because of the unconventional way he was conceived, but he is still a creation, albeit in a different way.
Can God create a human without father? Yes He can. Proof? Jesus!
Can God create a human without mother? Yes, He can. Proof? Adam and Eve!
Can God create a human without father and without mother? Yes, He can. Proof? Adam and Eve!
Joseph.

Therefore He’s not like you and me, because we had mums and dads.

So, given that, you’ve got your god who can’t seem to make up his mind.

He promises the Messiah to the Jews, and prophet after prophet is sent to them, then oops, one goes to the Arabs.

He makes prophet after prophet to the Jews as normal humans, then makes Jesus without a Father, then changes his mind and goes back to making a normal human, like Muhammed.

How did Jesus die? Is He different there too? Isn’t He to judge at the end of the world?

 

[inJESUS]

How did Jesus die?

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Montalban:

Therefore He’s not like you and me, because we had mums and dads.

Salaam Motalban;
As a creation of God, Jesus is like me and you. God creates in the way He wishes. We can’t force God to create humans in one way only.
Jesus (PBUH) was created in a special way and Allah (SWT) treated him in a special way: contrary to all of us, He raised him to Himself.

So, given that, you’ve got your god who can’t seem to make up his mind.
He promises the Messiah to the Jews, and prophet after prophet is sent to them, then oops, one goes to the Arabs.

Allah (SWT) answered a prayer made by Abraham, is it found in the Noble Qur’an and there is in the Bible a promise to him from God as well.

Qur’an: **
Abraham said: “Our Lord! Send amongst them a Messenger of their own, who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in scripture and wisdom, and sanctify them: For Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise." [Qur’an 002.129]
**
Bible:
“And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation”. [GEN 17:20]

He makes prophet after prophet to the Jews as normal humans, then makes Jesus without a Father, then changes his mind and goes back to making a normal human, like Muhammad.

Suppose a moment that God was to send another Messenger to the Jews, what more convincing proofs the new messenger would bring which Jesus did not already bring?
What was left after being born from a virgin?
What was left after giving life to the dead?
What was left after healing the blind?
What was left after healing an incurable disease, the leprosy?
Despite all the above wonders they denied him and even sought to kill him.
Jesus (PBUH) was the proof that Allah (SWT) established on the Jews; they no more deserve the prophet hood to stay with them.
It was about time to switch the prophet hood from the Children of Israel to the Children of Ismael.
Thousand of years and despite a great deal of prophets and messengers who were sent to the Children of Israel, the Judaism stayed confined to the minority of the Jews, they did not spay the message of Tawhid (Oneness of God).
In less than hundred years and only one Messenger (PBUH), the Children of Ismael spread the Islamic message of monotheism to the four corners of the GLOBE.

How did Jesus die? Is He different there too? Isn’t He to judge at the end of the world?

As I said before, Jesus’ birth was special and Allah (SWT) treated him differently, He raised him to Himself. He will sent him again.

Salaam.
Joseph.