Isn't abortion part of God's plan?

  • Thread starter Thread starter hellopeople
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

hellopeople

Guest
We have free will, right? But also, God has a divine hand in the actions of everyone (in my opinion at least). Also, isn’t child birth always a gift from God? So, when a child is conceived, God knows that the child is going to be aborted…right? So in God’s plan, are these aborted children meant to live? If they were meant to live, wouldn’t God guide the mother so that she did not get an abortion? IF a mother gets an abortion, doesn’t it suggest that they were not supposed to be born?

I am not saying that abortions aren’t morally wrong. I am just saying that they must be part of God’s plan.
 
No, Abortion is not part of God’s Plan.

Your post contradicts itself. You start with:
hellopeople said:
We have free will, right?
Click to expand...
And then you end with:
hellopeople said:
If they were meant to live, wouldn’t God guide the mother so that she did not get an abortion? IF a mother gets an abortion, doesn’t it suggest that they were not supposed to be born?
Click to expand...
This sounds an awful lot like predestination, which is contrary to church teaching.

God has a plan for each and everyone of us, however it is up to us to cooperate with that plan. Since all pregnancies are a gift from God it follows that His plan is for the baby to be born, not aborted. The mother must excersize her free will and decide whether or not to cooperate with God’s plan and carry the baby to term.

Giving birth = cooperation with God’s plan.

Abortion = frustrating (not cooperating with) God’s plan.
 
so a lot of people are murdered every year, or die in car accidents, or of cancer.
because God knows this are you saying they are meant to die, and the drunk driver, the cancer cell, the murderer is carrying out God’s plan? have you thought this through at all?
 
puzzleannie said:
so a lot of people are murdered every year, or die in car accidents, or of cancer.
because God knows this are you saying they are meant to die, and the drunk driver, the cancer cell, the murderer is carrying out God’s plan? have you thought this through at all?
Click to expand...
Yes, I would say it is all part of God’s plan. You don’t believe that? That when someone dies, that it was their time to go? Are you saying that God has nothing to do with how or when any of us die?
 
I think that this attitude comes from those banalities that Christians like to say to each other when things go wrong like: “well, it was meant to be!” or “all things work out, according to God’s plan!” I know those people have good intentions, but sometimes I want to tell them, “NO! THIS was NOT ‘meant to be.’ I had a free choice and I made the wrong one. Now God’s going to try to work with this!” :mad:
 
hellopeople said:
Yes, I would say it is all part of God’s plan. You don’t believe that? That when someone dies, that it was their time to go? Are you saying that God has nothing to do with how or when any of us die?
Click to expand...
Well, there are biological facts in play, there are free will choices being made.

God might not *intervene *to prevent the drunk driver, who is exercising free will, to get in his car and drive.

God has created biology. Sometimes, cells run wild and cancer forms and the person dies. That is not God’s will for that person at that time. He didn’t reach his hand out and make it happen to one person, and to another person he “cured” them. It’s simply biology - the rules God has put in place are playing out to their conclusions.
 
CatofAlexandria said:
I think that this attitude comes from those banalities that Christians like to say to each other when things go wrong like: “well, it was meant to be!” or “all things work out, according to God’s plan!” I know those people have good intentions, but sometimes I want to tell them, “NO! THIS was NOT ‘meant to be.’ I had a free choice and I made the wrong one. Now God’s going to try to work with this!” :mad:
Click to expand...
Personally I think that God has a plan for everyone. We have free will, but at the same time God controls the factors that we cannot control (being in the right or wrong place at the right or wrong time perhaps) and knows which way our free will is going to steer us, so everything we do is part of God’s greater plan. That is the way I see it at least.
 
PaulinVA said:
Well, there are biological facts in play, there are free will choices being made.

God might not *intervene *to prevent the drunk driver, who is exercising free will, to get in his car and drive.

God has created biology. Sometimes, cells run wild and cancer forms and the person dies. That is not God’s will for that person at that time. He didn’t reach his hand out and make it happen to one person, and to another person he “cured” them. It’s simply biology - the rules God has put in place are playing out to their conclusions.
Click to expand...
So people die when God does not want them to? That doesn’t make any sense at all IMO.
 
Yes – God has a plan for everyone. The plan is for us to spend eternity in His presence and know happiness in its fullest sense. But, if you believe in Hell (which, from some of your other posts, I see that you don’t despite the scriptural support), then you know that God’s plan isn’t always what happens BECAUSE of our free choice. (In fact, Hell–which is just being apart from God–MUST exist if we have free will, there must be some way NOT to choose Him). So, just because God knows something is going to happen doesn’t mean it’s part of His plan. When you’re watching a horror movie you often think “oh no! don’t go into the creepy basement!” because you know the killer is down there. You might even know that they’re going to go into the basement anyway (because that’s what always happens in those movies). This knowledge doesn’t mean you planned for the choice to happen.

This linear view of time (future, past, present) is a plague on your reasoning here, anyway (and the reasoning of all predestinationists). For God, there’s just the eternal now.
 
So God doesn’t play a roll in anyone’s life? We are completely free to do whatever we want and there is no plan involved in any of it? All God does is judge us when we have died, but completely stays out of human affairs (minus the intervention of Jesus I guess)? I have never seen it like this to be honest. Is this the view you guys have of God?
 
hellopeople said:
So God doesn’t play a roll in anyone’s life? We are completely free to do whatever we want and there is no plan involved in any of it? All God does is judge us when we have died, but completely stays out of human affairs (minus the intervention of Jesus I guess)? I have never seen it like this to be honest. Is this the view you guys have of God?
Click to expand...
Of course not! You’ve created a false dichotomy here: either everything that happens was planned by God or God plays no role in our lives. God gives us grace, strength and guidance, but it is up to us, ultimately, to make the the decisions about our actions and our relationship with God. God does not plan for a woman to have an abortion, but he can turn the tragedy into strength and healing if we choose to accept His grace.
 
the OP’s statement would also mean that 9/11 and the Hollocaust is God’s plan :eek:

and i agree with everyone else. we have free will. God has a plan for us and offers this plan to us, He doesn’t force anything on us, its up to us to accept His plan or reject it

if God forces things on us, then its meaningless to love God because we are forced to do it, its not true love. we cannot trully love God unless we have free will, that is why God gave us free will, so we can choose Him instead of being compelled to Him
 
hellopeople said:
We have free will, right? But also, God has a divine hand in the actions of everyone (in my opinion at least). Also, isn’t child birth always a gift from God? So, when a child is conceived, God knows that the child is going to be aborted…right? So in God’s plan, are these aborted children meant to live? If they were meant to live, wouldn’t God guide the mother so that she did not get an abortion? IF a mother gets an abortion, doesn’t it suggest that they were not supposed to be born?

I am not saying that abortions aren’t morally wrong. I am just saying that they must be part of God’s plan.
Click to expand...
You ask a difficult question but not one that is completely unanswerable.

Yes a Child is always a gift from God and yes God will always try to give guidance so the mother does not abort. However, such guidance is not force. The mother is free to ignore such guidance.
Now what good God does with our disobedience, and what special plan he has for all of the aborted children we cannot know, so we can best serve Him by simply opposing the evil of abortion as best we can and give no one on the other side an opening to justify it as somehow part of God’s plan.

Peace
James
 
I asked some of another faith regarding abortion, since they thought they were the only Christians (this was not a Catholic either), and they did not believe in abortion. However, she could not tell me where in the Bible it says that abortion is wrong, and she seems to say that it did not say in the Bible about abortion. However, the Bible says “thou shalt not kill” “Thou shall not commit murder”. We seem to have forgotten the 10 Commandments that God gave Moses.
I tried to write a report on Abortion. During my research for this paper, there was a lot of contradiction regarding the subject. My instructor also noted this on my draft that I had handed in. I changed my paper to another subject. However, my position on abortion is how can “Whoever” say abortion is wrong a sin. And on the other hand so it is OK to abort a baby if the mother’s life is in danger or if it is because of incest or rape. They seem to say abortion is OK then. Is that not still taking a life? Is that not still aborting of that fetus? So why is abortion OK in one respect and not in another. This seem like man not God.
 
I think this question is in large a misunderstanding of the very nature of God as well.

God is Love, Eternal Life, Holy, Pure. God can never be the author of sin, it is not within Him or His nature to be the author of this. Anything that we witness in this world that is evil (which abortion absolutely is a horrible evil) is not from the hand of God, but a result of us straying from God and relationship with Him and following after the temptations set before us by Satan and the world. Death and Evil are in this world because the world is sinful. God has a will and a plan for all people which is completed in recieving absolute sanctification and holiness in Heaven for all eternity, but He allows free will, giving us the ability to choose Him and His plan or not.

Death and evil occur because of the sinful state of this world, not because God wills it to happen. To suggest that God is the author of sin is a very wrong and even blasphemous idea.
 
To be honest, I think that 9/11 and the holocaust must have been part of God’s plan. If not, then God has no plan and things don’t happen for any reason at all (other than our free will).

In my opinion, either God has a plan for everyone and he ensures that this plan is carried out or he does not interfere with anyone’s life at all and completely stays out of it. I don’t see how it could be some sort of in between ground where God either intervenes in some peoples lives but not others, or where he doesn’t know what people are going to do in the future.

Let me just ask this question then: God knows what we are going to choose to do, right? So, if God knows that a woman will get an abortion, why does he give her the gift of a child in the first place, unless of course it is part of some greater plan.

The fact of the matter is that God allows horrible things to happen all the time. Either there is some sort of greater plan behind them (even the holocaust and 9/11) or he doesn’t intervene in human’s lives at all, ever.
 
FromTheAshes777 said:
I think this question is in large a misunderstanding of the very nature of God as well.

God is Love, Eternal Life, Holy, Pure. God can never be the author of sin, it is not within Him or His nature to be the author of this. Anything that we witness in this world that is evil (which abortion absolutely is a horrible evil) is not from the hand of God, but a result of us straying from God and relationship with Him and following after the temptations set before us by Satan and the world. Death and Evil are in this world because the world is sinful. God has a will and a plan for all people which is completed in recieving absolute sanctification and holiness in Heaven for all eternity, but He allows free will, giving us the ability to choose Him and His plan or not.

Death and evil occur because of the sinful state of this world, not because God wills it to happen. To suggest that God is the author of sin is a very wrong and even blasphemous idea.
Click to expand...
So God has a plan for us (presumably that we live free from sin). None of us do this though. So God’s plans are never achieved. So then why would he make plans for us?

I can’t see how there logically could be this middle ground. In my opinion, either God completely stays out of human affairs or he is guiding every little detail of every one of our lives. I can’t see how any sort of middle ground would be possible. I can’t see how God would cure one person of cancer but let a hundred people die of starvation…unless it was all part of a bigger plan. And if God loves us all equally, you can’t say that the person cured of cancer was part of the bigger plan and the hundred that died of starvation were not. Logically, in my opinion, a middle ground makes very little sense at all.

EDIT: Also, if sin is never part of God’s plan, explain Paul’s conversion. If Paul had not been persecuting Christians, it could not have happened in such a miraculous way. It seems that Paul killing Christians (which is no doubt a sin) was in fact part of God’s plan all along. And an even better example is Jesus being killed. I can’t imagine that there is a much worse sin than that, but it was obviously God’s will for that to happen. So, there is no doubt about it that sometimes sin is part of God’s plan.
 
hellopeople said:
To be honest, I think that 9/11 and the holocaust must have been part of God’s plan. If not, then God has no plan and things don’t happen for any reason at all (other than our free will).

In my opinion, either God has a plan for everyone and he ensures that this plan is carried out or he does not interfere with anyone’s life at all and completely stays out of it. I don’t see how it could be some sort of in between ground where God either intervenes in some peoples lives but not others, or where he doesn’t know what people are going to do in the future.

Let me just ask this question then: God knows what we are going to choose to do, right? So, if God knows that a woman will get an abortion, why does he give her the gift of a child in the first place, unless of course it is part of some greater plan.

The fact of the matter is that God allows horrible things to happen all the time. Either there is some sort of greater plan behind them (even the holocaust and 9/11) or he doesn’t intervene in human’s lives at all, ever.
Click to expand...
I have a question in trying to apply your logic on the subject. Clearly there are those people who will not go to Heaven, Holy Scripture is very clear on this subject. Some people will go to Hell when they die. At the same time Scripture states that God wills all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. See the verse below.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 says:
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
(Douay-Rheims translation)

So why do some people die and go to Hell rejecting God? Why do people ever even reject God at all or sin at all? Does God cause these things to happen?
 
FromTheAshes777 said:
I have question in trying to apply your logic on the subject. Clearly there are those people who will not go to Heaven, Holy Scripture is very clear on this subject. Some people will go to Hell when they die. At the same time Scripture states that God wills all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. See the verse below.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 says:
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
(Douay-Rheims translation)

So why do some people die and go to Hell rejecting God? Why do people ever even reject God at all or sin at all? Does God cause these things to happen?
Click to expand...
Well from the quote it seems like no one does go to hell. All men are saved apparently. That is why I don’t believe in hell and am more inclined to believe in reincarnation until you finally get it right. But that is for a different thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top