OK, I am confused by a couple of things here.
And yet we also have your quotes above.
Where you admit it is serious…
And apparently you did it freely.
One can trust the catechism. One can not (usually) trust one’s own ‘feelings’. Too many are either inclined to scrupulosity or to relativity.The OP was asking how anything could warrant an eternity of pain. The posts in reply state that any sin, no matter what it is, equates to a wholesale rejection of God and therefore warrants hell. Basically that’s it right. I can’t understand how a good God could make loving him or punishment the only options. And where are the goal posts exactly ; one reply even suggests playing games (and probably any recreation at all) instead of studying scripture amounts to a rejection, others say such things in moderation are okay. Who ya gonna believe?
That something is wrong and you do it freely? No. Or at least not that I believe. If that were the case than ANYTHING we did wrong while knowing it was wrong would be a mortal sin. Like swearing, or not doing the dishes right away, or telling someone a little white lie, or getting impatient with another person. There are tons of little petty things we do on a daily basis, that we know are wrong but do them anyway. We all sin daily.
Thanks Dave. I think going to mass weekly is very important, and while I think skipping a day of mass is wrong, I wouldn’t consider it (in isolation) worthy of Hell.
Ok, I never said it doesn’t matter to God when I sin. Please don’t put words in my mouth. I just simply don’t think skipping one mass will send someone to Hell. I think they may go to Hell for other sins in conjunction to skipping one mass, or maybe for their whole attitude towards God in general, but I think if someone gets lazy one day and doesn’t go to mass once, while still very wrong, it won’t, in isolation, send that person to Hell. And I still think murder is worse. Just my opinion.
You are correct, knowing something is wrong, and freely choosing it is not quite a mortal sin.
That would complete the 3 requirements for a mortal sin.
You made your position clear, and negated any possibility of it having any validity whatsoever at the same time.
Perhaps you overlooked the previous post where I outlined the 3 conditions for a mortal sin and also outlined how your own words showed that missing Mass fit the criteria.
Well I disagree. I think a person’s intention is deeper than merely knowing whether or not something is wrong, and I think there’s more to it than just that. The stealing scenario I put up was a good example. I can skip mass because I was caught in a moment of weakness and gave in to temptation while I was feeling lazy, or I can skip mass because I’ve made a conscious decision that I no longer want God in my life. I think the second one is worthy of Hell, and the first is worthy of purgatory. Again, that is my opinion. That is why these things are up to God to judge. Nonetheless, I don’t think anyone can say for sure that anyone else is going to Hell for having done something that is considered to be a mortal sin, because it isn’t black and white, and only God knows what their full intentions were.
Yes, but those can also apply to any sin that is not mortal. Just because those 3 requirements were present, doesn’t mean the sin was mortal. Those requirements are present for most venial sins we all commit on a daily basis.
Whether I swing an axe wrong and chop my fit off by accident or I deliberately cut it off; my foot is still off.
Don’t look at it as a comparison between the two acts you outlined, think of it as a direct ‘NO’ to God.
Right. But the effect on the relationship to God is still the same.
As with any sin we would consider mortal, that would all depend upon the circumstances.
You seem to want to steer this into culpability.
Yeh I think it’s cool too. Thank you for your remarks. I have been reading some of these posts and I still think you are right Debora. The intent is very important and is the measuring stick for how grave is the sin. For example a young lady had been sexually abused by her father. She spends alot of years in depression and has rejected all kinds of help. One day she decides to take her life. After taking the overdose she realizes what is going to happen and she says she does not want to go. But it is too late and she dies. Certainly God will not see her intent as serious. Years ago she may not have a funeral. But the Church is more understanding today especially to those who have been abused and to those who are mentally ill. How can God put a young girl who has been through enough suffering into hell? No! She did not kill herself. It was her father and the abuse she did not deserve. Certainly God can see that and will not hold the suicide against her. He will have given her all the lifesaving Graces for her at the moment of her death. This is the kind of God we have. Not a merciless one but One full of Mercy and Compassion. I will give you one more example. Let us say a Bishop commits sexual relationships with a woman and there was a layman who commits fornifiaction. To which one owns the greater responsibilty. The Bishop of course. If they both were judged the Bishop will receive the greater verdict. Remember Moses in the OT and because of his sin the Lord commanded that he will not enter the promise land of Israel. Why? In the eyes of God the sin that Moses committed was greater than if a layman had committed it. Moses is the Prophet and he has been given the greater responsibilty to lead God’s people. Therefore any sins he will committ will be heavier in judgement than if a layman who will commit the same sins. The intent is what counts and so is the responsibilty of your office. Missing Mass is not a serious affair if one has the intent to go anyway. I will think that those who we call the two timers will have a more difficult time in judgement than those who only miss Mass twice a year. There is quite a difference in the two. ( Two timers are those who only go at Christmas and Easter ) I will venture to say that it will not be any bothersome to God when the faithful miss a couple of times. He knows your intent. For goodness sake He should know by all those visits you have given Him. He doesn’t need your apology. He needs the truth. And if you love Him remember the Apostles words that " Love can cover a multitude of sins." So love is the measuring stick as well. No words are necessary for that one. Just off the topic here I see you are from Florida. We here on P.E.I. are famous for sandy beaches in the summer and if you have not visited us here why not you and your husband pay P.E.I. a visit and explore our tiny but wonderful Island. The beaches will remind you of home. You can also attend the beautiful Musical based on Anne of Green Gables. I always like to pitch for my Island because we have so much to offer here.
I read it. How is it contradictory to what I wrote? I was saying that venial sins can ALSO be committed with full knowledge and consent of the will.
Oh my gosh, I LOVED Anne of Green Gables! I watched all the movies and read some of the books. Canada is a little too cold for living in, but I still think PEI is beautiful, and it’d be a good place to go visit over the summer when it’s warm.
But they lack the characteristic of being grave matter - in other words they lack the characteristic of being inherently serious sins. You would never in a million years have said ‘I stole 5 cents, and it was a serious sin’. Because it simply isn’t one. That is what distinguishes it from mortal sin.
I’m not Steve, but. . ahem, since when is articulating solid authentic Catholic teachings being 'too ‘black and white?’ Who says so? If something is wrong, it’s wrong. If it’s mortal sin, it’s mortal sin.