Isn't it Better for Your Soul to be Unbaptized?

[Melodeonist]

If someone is baptized and they are in a state of mortal sin, then they need to see a priest to get their sins absolved.

If someone is unbaptized but believe in Christ all they need to do is get baptized, and anyone is capable of baptizing anyone.

Thus, this leads me to my confusing conclusion: why is it better to be baptized if only a priest can save you? If you are dying in a state of mortal sin (and a priest can’t come in time) then it would seem that you would be going to Hell. On the other hand, if the same person was unbaptized then all they would need to do is ask someone to baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Please help me clear up my confusion!

 

[LightBound]

If someone is baptized and they are in a state of mortal sin, then they need to see a priest to get their sins absolved.

If someone is unbaptized but believe in Christ all they need to do is get baptized, and anyone is capable of baptizing anyone.

Thus, this leads me to my confusing conclusion: why is it better to be baptized if only a priest can save you? If you are dying (and I priest can’t come in time) then it would seem that you would be going to Hell. On the other hand, if the same person was unbaptized then all they would need to do is ask someone to baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Please help me clear up my confusion!

No, dear. Let’s look at what you said from a practical standpoint: “if the same person was unbaptized then all they would need to do is ask someone to baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”. What happens if you die suddenly in a vehicle accident? A freak accident? A mass shooting or bombing? You throw a clot and die instantly? Do you really think it’s a good idea to go against Church teaching to be baptized and take a chance that you’ll always be conscious and alert enough to ask for an emergency Baptism? Nope, not here. Not now. You are far better off to get baptized and try your best to avoid mortal sin. You also would do well to speak with your confessor about these obsessions of yours. It’s not healthy to your spiritual life.

 

[Wesrock]

I had something all typed up, and my browser crashed, so I’ll see if I can write it up again.

What if death came suddenly, like a thief in the night? Why would you not to be ready when the bridegroom comes? What if you were putting off initiation into Christ’s death, burial, resurrection, and ascension just to hold on to a get-out-of-jail-free card? If you were convinced, how could you not want to join Christ’s body, the Church, the Kingdom, as soon as possible and live in Christ as long as possible? Why would you keep yourself from the reaffirming and strengthening power of the Spirit received through Baptism and the sacraments? And it’s not as if Confession is really any more burdensome than Baptism, it restores you fully into life in Christ. Sincere, perfect contrition in the absence of a priest is sufficient for the forgiveness of sins.

Why would you insist on eating table scraps and sleeping in the barn when the Master has invited you to His table and is preparing a bed for you?

Here is some additional reading: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19801020_pastoralis_actio_en.html

 

[Ad_Orientem]

To Wesrock’s answer, I add two points.

First, to defer the sacraments is not only to defer the medicine of immortality which gives life to our souls; it is also to defer the indwelling of the Blessed Trinity, whom we ought to love with all our hearts. It is like an absurdly long wedding engagement that lasts for years, and perhaps never comes to fruition.

Second, at death, one’s level of grace and merit is fixed forever. Those who have grown in grace throughout their lives and go to meet God, will see him more clearly, love him more, and enjoy him more–for all eternity. Everyone in heaven will of course be completely fulfilled and happy, but some will have a deeper knowledge of God and thus a deeper joy, and perhaps more influence on earth.

 

[AKDee]

Well, people used to think that way and did just that- waited until late in life to be baptized.

But personally, I wouldn’t want to take that chance with my soul- what if you got hit by a bus? Nor would I want to pass up the graces that are available to me through confirmation, confession, and the Eucharist…none of which are available to an unbaptized person.

Plus, the whole thing smacks of the sin of presumption, the same as if you sin thinking, “Oh, I’ll just go to confession and it’ll be forgiven.” If you live a life of sin thinking, “Oh, I’ll just get baptized on my deathbed and all will be forgiven.”…Well, maybe it will be, but I just suspect God would really frown on that type of attitude. God is the God of Mercy…but also the God of Justice…I would expect a really LONG time in purgatory for that stunt.

 

[RPRPsych]

If someone is baptized and they are in a state of mortal sin, then they need to see a priest to get their sins absolved.

If someone is unbaptized but believe in Christ all they need to do is get baptized, and anyone is capable of baptizing anyone.

Thus, this leads me to my confusing conclusion: why is it better to be baptized if only a priest can save you? If you are dying in a state of mortal sin (and a priest can’t come in time) then it would seem that you would be going to Hell. On the other hand, if the same person was unbaptized then all they would need to do is ask someone to baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Please help me clear up my confusion!

Your post shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Catholic dogmas regarding salvation.

Please discuss this with a priest or catechist rather than making such shocking assertions in a public forum.

 

[surritter]

To the OP… While it may seem better to just wait and get baptized on one’s deathbed, there is a big problem with that: How do you know when you will die??

Pretty big gamble!

 

[Don_Ruggero]

If someone is baptized and they are in a state of mortal sin, then they need to see a priest to get their sins absolved.

If someone is unbaptized but believe in Christ all they need to do is get baptized, and anyone is capable of baptizing anyone.

Thus, this leads me to my confusing conclusion: why is it better to be baptized if only a priest can save you? If you are dying in a state of mortal sin (and a priest can’t come in time) then it would seem that you would be going to Hell. On the other hand, if the same person was unbaptized then all they would need to do is ask someone to baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Please help me clear up my confusion!

First, if one is dying in the absence of a priest, one makes an act of perfect contrition and trusts in the Lord and His mercy. It is the Lord who saves. If one cannot receive from a priest the apostolic pardon at the hour of death, one invokes the name of Jesus to receive the same plenary indulgence, which comes from the treasure to which the Church has access.

The Lord has not bound Himself to only give grace through the sacraments. He can give it otherwise – and does.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ to help our human nature to perceive the communication of grace through sacramental signs. The Lord Jesus at times used touch and gestures and other actions to communicate healing in the Gospels, acting through means perceptible to the senses. At other times, He did so simply by His Divine Power, through an act of the will with no external expression. And so it remains.

As to the issue you raise in the first half of your post, this is an issue the Church confronted in its youth and an attitude that has continued in various manifestations, unfortunately. It is not a proper response.

In the era of Constantine, for example, there was a behaviour pattern among some to defer baptism until end of life so that one arrived at the threshold of eternity freshly baptised and with a goal to be free from sin…original and actual.

This is to over-focus on sin. Life is more than sin and its avoidance. Life in Christ is also oneness with Him…thanks to baptism. It is about growth in holiness, about growth in the infused virtues – theological and moral – and of life with the indwelling Trinity…thanks to baptism. It is about living with the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit, which we possess thanks to baptism. It is about incorporation into the Mystical Body of Christ and sharing in the triple munera of Christ – as Priest, .Prophet and King – which are to be lived out and expressed in one’s daily life…thanks to baptism. It is about a Spirit led life, the Spirit descending upon the soul at baptism. It is about growth in holiness and in sanctifying grace, which is infused at baptism.

One’s participation in the liturgy is linked to being baptised – for, thereby, one is made a participant in Christ’s priesthood – offering prayer and sacrifice to the Lord.

These are the aspects of the Christian life meant to be lived and realised in the decades between baptism and death.

Your approach denies you of the years of living the sacramental life: Of being enriched by Confirmation to better live your life. Of being one with the Lord sacramentally in the Eucharist, even daily. Of being one with the liturgical assembly across the seasons of your life in its offering of the liturgy of the Church to the Father through Christ in the Spirit.

For most people, their very vocation in life is tied to the sacraments…of marriage or of Holy Order or of consecrated life, which is a radical living of the baptismal consecration.

What you propose would be to consciously choose to live ontologically apart from Christ until one’s last moments. That is to deny the real purpose of the life to which one had been called.

These are but the broadest outlines of why the Church rejects the concept you propose of how the Christian life is to be lived.

Such a mindset is also to make fear of sin the driving force of one’s life. The driving force of life is love of God and love of the neighbor for the sake of God…for in the neighbor, and above all if s/he be of the least, we find Christ.

It is, above and beyond all of that, to frankly make a warped and distorted concept of sacraments and sacramental life.

 

[fladreamer]

How would that make sense?

That the same person living the same life with the same sins/good deeds…would have a better chance to go to heaven if they are *not *baptized (and dying, and there’s no priest around)?
So you might say…the baptized person is punished.

Do you truly think this would happen? That the baptized person would have* less *of a chance of going to heaven because they’ve been baptized?

That does not sound like a good set up. Not at all.

.

Clearly not an argument a pro-baptism apologist would want to use!

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Prodigal Son.

Like the father of the prodigal son. Look up that parable. Very valuable and important lesson therein.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15%3A11-32

The father was out there desperately waiting and hoping to catch sight of his younger sinful son.

20 “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him."

“‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

“‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

everything I have is yours. 32

You also have to understand God’s INFINITY.

It is different from mathematical infinity.

Billions of people … can SHARE in God’s INFINITY.

Some of my friends INSIST that there is only so much good stuff to go around … and if you get something good, then there is less for them.

But that’s not the way it works.

ALWAYS … the sinner is ALWAYS welcomed back.

All prayers are welcomed at all times.

And the prayers don’t need to be elaborate.

No special format.

“God … please help me.”

 

[Gliggle]

If someone is baptized and they are in a state of mortal sin, then they need to see a priest to get their sins absolved.

If someone is unbaptized but believe in Christ all they need to do is get baptized, and anyone is capable of baptizing anyone.

Thus, this leads me to my confusing conclusion: why is it better to be baptized if only a priest can save you? If you are dying in a state of mortal sin (and a priest can’t come in time) then it would seem that you would be going to Hell. On the other hand, if the same person was unbaptized then all they would need to do is ask someone to baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Please help me clear up my confusion!

I asked a priest this question. He said “Why would you want to live a lie?”

Maybe it is a bigger risk - but it is also a bigger gain.

“No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

 

[pianistclare]

First, if one is dying in the absence of a priest, one makes an act of perfect contrition and trusts in the Lord and His mercy. It is the Lord who saves. If one cannot receive from a priest the apostolic pardon at the hour of death, one invokes the name of Jesus to receive the same plenary indulgence, which comes from the treasure to which the Church has access.

The Lord has not bound Himself to only give grace through the sacraments. He can give it otherwise – and does.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ to help our human nature to perceive the communication of grace through sacramental signs. The Lord Jesus at times used touch and gestures and other actions to communicate healing in the Gospels, acting through means perceptible to the senses. At other times, He did so simply by His Divine Power, through an act of the will with no external expression. And so it remains.

As to the issue you raise in the first half of your post, this is an issue the Church confronted in its youth and an attitude that has continued in various manifestations, unfortunately. It is not a proper response.

In the era of Constantine, for example, there was a behaviour pattern among some to defer baptism until end of life so that one arrived at the threshold of eternity freshly baptised and with a goal to be free from sin…original and actual.

This is to over-focus on sin. Life is more than sin and its avoidance. Life in Christ is also oneness with Him…thanks to baptism. It is about growth in holiness, about growth in the infused virtues – theological and moral – and of life with the indwelling Trinity…thanks to baptism. It is about living with the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit, which we possess thanks to baptism. It is about incorporation into the Mystical Body of Christ and sharing in the triple munera of Christ – as Priest, .Prophet and King – which are to be lived out and expressed in one’s daily life…thanks to baptism. It is about a Spirit led life, the Spirit descending upon the soul at baptism. It is about growth in holiness and in sanctifying grace, which is infused at baptism.

One’s participation in the liturgy is linked to being baptised – for, thereby, one is made a participant in Christ’s priesthood – offering prayer and sacrifice to the Lord.

These are the aspects of the Christian life meant to be lived and realised in the decades between baptism and death.

Your approach denies you of the years of living the sacramental life: Of being enriched by Confirmation to better live your life. Of being one with the Lord sacramentally in the Eucharist, even daily. Of being one with the liturgical assembly across the seasons of your life in its offering of the liturgy of the Church to the Father through Christ in the Spirit.

For most people, their very vocation in life is tied to the sacraments…of marriage or of Holy Order or of consecrated life, which is a radical living of the baptismal consecration.

What you propose would be to consciously choose to live ontologically apart from Christ until one’s last moments. That is to deny the real purpose of the life to which one had been called.

These are but the broadest outlines of why the Church rejects the concept you propose of how the Christian life is to be lived.

Such a mindset is also to make fear of sin the driving force of one’s life. The driving force of life is love of God and love of the neighbor for the sake of God…for in the neighbor, and above all if s/he be of the least, we find Christ.

It is, above and beyond all of that, to frankly make a warped and distorted concept of sacraments and sacramental life.

So beautifully stated.
And yes, this is a warped viewpoint.
It totally denies a relationship with the Creator.
A sad way to be, especially when one should know better.
Life with Christ? Or life without Him?
Easy choice.

 

[Melodeonist]

First, if one is dying in the absence of a priest, one makes an act of perfect contrition and trusts in the Lord and His mercy. It is the Lord who saves. If one cannot receive from a priest the apostolic pardon at the hour of death, one invokes the name of Jesus to receive the same plenary indulgence, which comes from the treasure to which the Church has access.

The Lord has not bound Himself to only give grace through the sacraments. He can give it otherwise – and does.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ to help our human nature to perceive the communication of grace through sacramental signs. The Lord Jesus at times used touch and gestures and other actions to communicate healing in the Gospels, acting through means perceptible to the senses. At other times, He did so simply by His Divine Power, through an act of the will with no external expression. And so it remains.

As to the issue you raise in the first half of your post, this is an issue the Church confronted in its youth and an attitude that has continued in various manifestations, unfortunately. It is not a proper response.

In the era of Constantine, for example, there was a behaviour pattern among some to defer baptism until end of life so that one arrived at the threshold of eternity freshly baptised and with a goal to be free from sin…original and actual.

This is to over-focus on sin. Life is more than sin and its avoidance. Life in Christ is also oneness with Him…thanks to baptism. It is about growth in holiness, about growth in the infused virtues – theological and moral – and of life with the indwelling Trinity…thanks to baptism. It is about living with the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit, which we possess thanks to baptism. It is about incorporation into the Mystical Body of Christ and sharing in the triple munera of Christ – as Priest, .Prophet and King – which are to be lived out and expressed in one’s daily life…thanks to baptism. It is about a Spirit led life, the Spirit descending upon the soul at baptism. It is about growth in holiness and in sanctifying grace, which is infused at baptism.

One’s participation in the liturgy is linked to being baptised – for, thereby, one is made a participant in Christ’s priesthood – offering prayer and sacrifice to the Lord.

These are the aspects of the Christian life meant to be lived and realised in the decades between baptism and death.

Your approach denies you of the years of living the sacramental life: Of being enriched by Confirmation to better live your life. Of being one with the Lord sacramentally in the Eucharist, even daily. Of being one with the liturgical assembly across the seasons of your life in its offering of the liturgy of the Church to the Father through Christ in the Spirit.

For most people, their very vocation in life is tied to the sacraments…of marriage or of Holy Order or of consecrated life, which is a radical living of the baptismal consecration.

What you propose would be to consciously choose to live ontologically apart from Christ until one’s last moments. That is to deny the real purpose of the life to which one had been called.

These are but the broadest outlines of why the Church rejects the concept you propose of how the Christian life is to be lived.

Such a mindset is also to make fear of sin the driving force of one’s life. The driving force of life is love of God and love of the neighbor for the sake of God…for in the neighbor, and above all if s/he be of the least, we find Christ.

It is, above and beyond all of that, to frankly make a warped and distorted concept of sacraments and sacramental life.

Thanks for the reply! That really cleared it up!

The reason I posted this thread was because the idea popped into my head. I don’t really know why though.

 

[pianistclare]

Thanks for the reply! That really cleared it up!

The reason I posted this thread was because the idea popped into my head. I don’t really know why though.

Is there not some online Catechism class you could enroll in from a Catholic university? There’s lots of good programs out there. I feel like your RCIA experience was not the greatest.

 

[BobCatholic]

I had something all typed up, and my browser crashed, so I’ll see if I can write it up again.

What if death came suddenly, like a thief in the night? Why would you not to be ready when the bridegroom comes?

And then if you’re alone, you’re worse off because nobody could baptize you. So you’re dependent on ANYONE for one’s salvation and they’re not there…game over.

Why would you insist on eating table scraps and sleeping in the barn when the Master has invited you to His table and is preparing a bed for you?

Because we are supposed to be in the barn here on earth. The bed is in heaven, not here on earth. Here on earth we are supposed to suffer, no exceptions, no rest.

 

[pianistclare]

Because we are supposed to be in the barn here on earth. The bed is in heaven, not here on earth. ** Here on earth we are supposed to suffer, no exceptions, no rest**.

No, this is not Catholic teaching. There is plenty of joy to be had while on earth. We are to glorify God in all things. That includes happiness and love.
Earthly life is not meant to be a dire situation.
Such negativity does not please God, nor give Him honor.
We are eat at the table of the Lord and rejoice in it.

 

[BobCatholic]

No, this is not Catholic teaching. There is plenty of joy to be had while on earth.

Not for me. If it is not in God’s will game over.

Earthly life is not meant to be a dire situation.

Yes it is. We are supposed to carry the cross.

We are eat at the table of the Lord and rejoice in it.

That table is in heaven, so yes, that is when we are permitted to rejoice.

 

[pianistclare]

Not for me. If it is not in God’s will game over.

**No, you’re placing limits on God’s mercy. No bueno. **

Yes it is. We are supposed to carry the cross.

**With grace. And gratitude, and peacefulness, not bitterness. **

That table is in heaven, so yes, that is when we are permitted to rejoice.

The table of the Lamb is at Mass. Go there. Eat. Drink. Lay your burden down. Your negativity isn’t doing you any good. There is nothing to be gained or anyone you can influence with such misrepresentation of our Catholic life. .

 

[goout]

If someone is baptized and they are in a state of mortal sin, then they need to see a priest to get their sins absolved.

If someone is unbaptized but believe in Christ all they need to do is get baptized, and anyone is capable of baptizing anyone.

Thus, this leads me to my confusing conclusion: why is it better to be baptized if only a priest can save you? If you are dying in a state of mortal sin (and a priest can’t come in time) then it would seem that you would be going to Hell. On the other hand, if the same person was unbaptized then all they would need to do is ask someone to baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Please help me clear up my confusion!

The word “IF” causes more problems…
Speculation is the tool of Satan, because it leads to pointless anxiety, and pointless anxiety is not a part of the Christian life. .

Just live your life as God has given it to you, and don’t worry about alternate universes.

 

[BobCatholic]

No, you’re placing limits on God’s mercy. No bueno.

I’m not placing limits on God’s mercy when it comes to spiritual things, because he doesn’t do so.

God places limits on his mercy when it comes to temporal things. When God says “no” to prayers for good things, he places the limits, not me.

God is limited by his will.

With grace. And gratitude, and peacefulness, not bitterness.

How can I be at peace when bad things hit me and hurt me? Why would I be grateful when bad things happened? I’m not a masochist. “Thank you sir, may I have another” is what plebes tell their “frat brothers” during hazing, not what a beloved son tells his loving father.

The table of the Lamb is at Mass. Go there. Eat. Drink. Lay your burden down. Your negativity isn’t doing you any good. There is nothing to be gained or anyone you can influence with such misrepresentation of our Catholic life. .

Can’t lay my burden down. Not allowed. Must carry the cross, nothing optional about that.