Isn't it time for this to end?

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AngelusDomini

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There seem to be a great many threads on moral issues to do with sex, gay rights, abortion and marriage, however, I haven’t seen many about current controversies surrounding capital punishment. Is the Catholic Church in the US doing anything to end such abhorrent practices as this, due to be administered to Robert Ladd? In the UK we only really have news of large scale protests and movements against abortion and gay marriage legislation. Surely the church is doing something in the US to campaign against this!

huffingtonpost.com/mark-e-olive-/robert-ladd-execution_b_6566194.html
 
Here at Catholic Answers Forums, we see threads on capital punishment fairly often, but they usually go the same way. Two opposing sides have a shouting match and no one changes his/her mind. I don’t know if it is the same in the Catholic Church in the US.
 
Yes, there are organized campaigns against the death penalty, both nationally and at the diocesan level.

But the Church’s response is both proportional and practical.

The Church teaches that abortion is always, without exception a moral evil. The same absolute does not exist for capital punishment.

Also, abortion takes over 2000 innocent lives a day and damages an equal number (and that’s just in the US) while capitall punishment takes a few dozen lives **a year **and those are not the lives of innocents. (in the case you linked, the man had hammered, strangled and then set on fire a woman while on parole for killing three other people)

Because of that the fight to end abortion must be bigger and more vigorous than the fight to end capital punishment.
 
AngelusDomini said:
There seem to be a great many threads on moral issues to do with sex, gay rights, abortion and marriage, however, I haven’t seen many about current controversies surrounding capital punishment. Is the Catholic Church in the US doing anything to end such abhorrent practices as this, due to be administered to Robert Ladd? In the UK we only really have news of large scale protests and movements against abortion and gay marriage legislation. Surely the church is doing something in the US to campaign against this!

huffingtonpost.com/mark-e-olive-/robert-ladd-execution_b_6566194.html
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I wouldn’t take anything the Huffington post says about anything seriously. They mostly deal with celebrity news, and as such are viewed as fairly unreliable with regard to serious reporting. Very biased. Shock value. That’s about the size of it.

These are indeed hot button issues, but the HP is has not got any credible sources re: Catholic life, beliefs, theology, or activist views.
 
Okay, perhaps “shouting match” is a bit of an exaggeration. Anyway, there are plenty of threads here at CAF. If you search the forums for thread titles containing the words “death penalty” or “capital punishment,” you find many.
 
I noticed that OP is in the U.K.

There, the DP is long gone and likely to so remain, despite periodic attempts to restore it.

Here, it still has s lot of public support including many Catholics.

To many, it just seems a battle not worth fighting.

ICXC NIKA
 
I did search death penalty but there was very little which was recent (and of course reviving old threads is discouraged), especially in relation to the new drug combinations being used in lethal injections.

Having read the CCC I would argue that the church’s response is NOT proportional or practical as there are very practical means available in the US to ‘defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor’ and ‘effectively preventing crime’ (CCC 2267, Bloomsbury, 1999). For me Pro-life means in all cases life from conception to natural death.

Huffington Post was just one of a number of sources that ran this item, there were others but used the HP link as it was one I thought readers in the US would be familiar with as opposed to British publications.
 
AngelusDomini said:
I did search death penalty but there was very little which was recent (and of course reviving old threads is discouraged), especially in relation to the new drug combinations being used in lethal injections.

Having read the CCC I would argue that the church’s response is NOT proportional or practical as there are very practical means available in the US to ‘defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor’ and ‘effectively preventing crime’ (CCC 2267, Bloomsbury, 1999). For me Pro-life means in all cases life from conception to natural death.

Huffington Post was just one of a number of sources that ran this item, there were others but used the HP link as it was one I thought readers in the US would be familiar with as opposed to British publications.
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By practical, I meant the Church’s actions, not the penal possibilities. It is more practical to fight harder against absolute evil than against something that is situationaly evil.

As for proportional, 2000+ per day is proportionately more evil than <40 per year, no matter how you do the math. Of course we are protect life, especially innocent life, from conception to natural death but some fights are more urgent.
 
Also, abortion takes over 2000 innocent lives a day and damages an equal number (and that’s just in the US) while capitall punishment takes a few dozen lives **a year **and those are not the lives of innocents. (in the case you linked, the man had hammered, strangled and then set on fire a woman while on parole for killing three other people)

Because of that the fight to end abortion must be bigger and more vigorous than the fight to end capital punishment.

True.
 
Marty67 said:
Also, abortion takes over 2000 innocent lives a day and damages an equal number (and that’s just in the US) while capitall punishment takes a few dozen lives **a year **and those are not the lives of innocents. (in the case you linked, the man had hammered, strangled and then set on fire a woman while on parole for killing three other people)

Because of that the fight to end abortion must be bigger and more vigorous than the fight to end capital punishment.
Click to expand...
The Church’s position though is that the pervading culture of death numbs peoples hearts and consciences to the dignity of human life thereby giving abortion legitimacy as a medical solution. For the fight against abortion to be effective we need to restore societies sense of the horror of taking a life. Sort of like the principle of vaccination. When one is well, vaccination acts to strengthen the immune system against disease, but when one is sick, introducing that viral injection acts to further destroy ones health.
 
Beryllos said:
Here at Catholic Answers Forums, we see threads on capital punishment fairly often, but they usually go the same way. Two opposing sides have a shouting match and no one changes his/her mind. I don’t know if it is the same in the Catholic Church in the US.
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Wait, you left out the part about the thread then getting shut down by the mods…:rolleyes:
 
pianistclare said:
I wouldn’t take anything the Huffington post says about anything seriously. They mostly deal with celebrity news, and as such are viewed as fairly unreliable with regard to serious reporting. Very biased. Shock value. That’s about the size of it.

These are indeed hot button issues, but the HP is has not got any credible sources re: Catholic life, beliefs, theology, or activist views.
Click to expand...
Marc Barnes, the Franciscan University of Steubenville student who writes the Bad Catholic blog, says that HuffPost puts the “yell” and “low” in “yellow journalism”. 😃
 
If a person is convicted of murder, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the death penalty should be enforced, after a reasonable amount of time for new evidence or DNA etc. Also enough time for the person to repent and turn to the Lord should be given.

They definitely should not be paroled to go out & murder again! :eek:
 
You should consider starting a discussion on capital punishment, and this could be a contribution.
I searched using an alternate search phrase, “death penalty,” and saw there were threads on these forums that started on Jan 19 this year, and Dec. 4, Nov 11 and Nov 10 last year, so this is being discussed to some extent here and recently.
The U.S. bishops speak out often in individual cases against it as someone faces the death penalty in the U.S. I presume you would find many of these instances if you do a google search.
I disagree that the threads here are actually mistakenly disproportionate on such issues, but I understand how you think this.
 
Georgia just this week executed a mentally challenged man.
May God have mercy.
:signofcross:
 
truetofaith said:
If a person is convicted of murder, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the death penalty should be enforced,

They definitely should not be paroled to go out & murder again! :eek:
Click to expand...
Well, there is another alternative. The laws can be changed that “life” actually means life with no parole option. Ever.
 
Irishmom2 said:
Well, there is another alternative. The laws can be changed that “life” actually means life with no parole option. Ever.
Click to expand...
That may not be such a bad deterrent to commit murder, when your punishment will be 3 meals a day, exercise, TV, etc… and all for free!
 
AngelusDomini said:
There seem to be a great many threads on moral issues to do with sex, gay rights, abortion and marriage, however, I haven’t seen many about current controversies surrounding capital punishment. Is the Catholic Church in the US doing anything to end such abhorrent practices as this, due to be administered to Robert Ladd? In the UK we only really have news of large scale protests and movements against abortion and gay marriage legislation. Surely the church is doing something in the US to campaign against this!

huffingtonpost.com/mark-e-olive-/robert-ladd-execution_b_6566194.html
Click to expand...
I think part of this post is in regards to this man being mentally challenged. My cousin has the maturity of a 13yr. old and the intelligience of a 8yr. old. She tried to ram me with her wheel chair for not giving her a pop and then she started to phone the police because she thought she was in the right. I don’t think people like my cousin or this man can be held responsible for their actions the same way as normal people. They should be held responsible but not in the same way.
 
But I would object to letting someone breathe, or not, based on an IQ score.

Either killing is “just” or it’s not.

IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA
 
In this particular case, I believe his lower IQ was addressed at trial. It’s an issue for the trial stage, sufficient mental capability for premeditation, rather than for the penalty phase.

His execution was carried out a few minutes ago. He expressed remorse for his actions before the sentence was carried out. I pray for the repose of his soul.
 
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