Isn't "social justice" really just a dodge?

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Unfortunately I do see quite often where “social Justice” is a cover for some folks in the church, both lay people and religious. They are always in the forefront demonstrating for so called social justice but that never includes the rights of the unborn.
 
Unfortunately I do see quite often where “social Justice” is a cover for some folks in the church, both lay people and religious. They are always in the forefront demonstrating for so called social justice but that never includes the rights of the unborn.
That one works both ways. I’ve seen plenty of people who are willing to protest and speak out against abortion, but are unwilling to provide help to women that are struggling. It’s often far easier to judge than to help.
 
Unfortunately I do see quite often where “social Justice” is a cover for some folks in the church, both lay people and religious. They are always in the forefront demonstrating for so called social justice but that never includes the rights of the unborn.
This is undisputably true. It often does not respect subsidiarity either, or justice which demands the common good be upheld. And despite earlier encyclicals, it no longer seems overly concerned with the state of the soul. (See quote.) An example of this would be the immigration issue in which the many moral ambiguities are not addressed nor spiritual direction given to the plight of those here illegally. It overlaps true “SJ” issues with political ideology and suggests we have religious obligations as to the specifics of satisfying the gospel mandate, when we are free, instead, to practice prudential judgment.
The working man, too, has interests in which he should be protected by the State; and first of all, there are the interests of his soul. Life on earth, however good and desirable in itself, is not the final purpose for which man is created; it is only the way and the means to that attainment of truth and that love of goodness in which the full life of the soul consists.
Pope Leo XIII
Rerum Novarem
 
That one works both ways. I’ve seen plenty of people who are willing to protest and speak out against abortion, but are unwilling to provide help to women that are struggling. It’s often far easier to judge than to help.
The 'ole charitable giving vs government handouts argument with plenty of rhetoric on both sides. I do believe, tho, that in these current times and with this administration especially, we are seeing how the state pillages the truly poor and justice is left to the whims of the elite.
 
The 'ole charitable giving vs government handouts argument with plenty of rhetoric on both sides. I do believe, tho, that in these current times and with this administration especially, we are seeing how the state pillages the truly poor and justice is left to the whims of the elite.
Actually I wasn’t even going to go there. I’ve seen plenty of people who were willing both to protest against abortion and then throw their own daughters out for getting pregnant. Even if she shouldn’t have gotten pregnant there’s no love or charity in that.
 
Actually I wasn’t even going to go there. I’ve seen plenty of people who were willing both to protest against abortion and then throw their own daughters out for getting pregnant. Even if she shouldn’t have gotten pregnant there’s no love or charity in that.
Umm, for every one of THESE extreme examples, there are DOZENS of situations in which parents love their child, even the son or daughter who conceived a child out of wedlock. They EMBRACE their pregnant daughters FAR MORE than toss them out, no? Let’s be fair here.
 
Umm, for every one of THESE extreme examples, there are DOZENS of situations in which parents love their child, even the son or daughter who conceived a child out of wedlock. They EMBRACE their pregnant daughters FAR MORE than toss them out, no? Let’s be fair here.
Is it any less extreme than saying that people use social justice as an excuse to “not care about the rights of the unborn”? If we’re going to stay away from extreme examples please use it on both sides. I’ve spent plenty of time with liberals and what I’m seeing here is a caricature of the extreme positions as though they were mainstream…there are certainly places of legitimate disagreement, but it doesn’t do much good to point to the extreme positions to say “all liberals are evil.”
 
Is it any less extreme than saying that people use social justice as an excuse to “not care about the rights of the unborn”? If we’re going to stay away from extreme examples please use it on both sides. I’ve spent plenty of time with liberals and what I’m seeing here is a caricature of the extreme positions as though they were mainstream…there are certainly places of legitimate disagreement, but it doesn’t do much good to point to the extreme positions to say “all liberals are evil.”
Connect the dots here for me. Not sure what your statement is about. What’s “DarkLight” mean? photography?
 
Is it any less extreme than saying that people use social justice as an excuse to “not care about the rights of the unborn”? If we’re going to stay away from extreme examples please use it on both sides. I’ve spent plenty of time with liberals and what I’m seeing here is a caricature of the extreme positions as though they were mainstream…there are certainly places of legitimate disagreement, but it doesn’t do much good to point to the extreme positions to say “all liberals are evil.”
Is it an extreme example when we find dozens and dozens of groups funding abortions, contraceptives and all manner of things contra to the Church? Even the bishops themselves who unwittingly gave $1.8 million of Catholic money last year to these “social justice” organizations have not ever denied this report. This is just one little example.

reformcchdnow.com/media/CCHD%20Report%20for%20web%2010.3.2011_reported.pdf
 
My problem with what has become of the “social justice” movement is that the term has largely been co-opted and been used by many as the primary focus of our faith, to the extent that many have satisfied themselves with their works of social justice while throwing out their faith in the true doctrine of Christ transmitted through the Church.

Sounds like a Protestant sermon might have much valid criticism here about faith vs. works, eh? 🙂

More than that, the real co-opting going on is that the charitable drive of the Church has been subverted by a “social justice” crowd that pushes for government solutions rather than charitable ones. It attempts to use the government to meet their ends, regardless of the cost or concerns of government intervention, be it law, liberty, constitution, or Church principles of subsidiarity sold out for an easy solution with the vast power of the state.

Here again we seem to have another Protestant sermon with much valid criticism of corruption: just as they have criticized Church control of secular states no matter the circumstances, they too could criticize this idea of using the heavy hand of government to achieve “Church” ends–be it some definition of public welfare.

In fact, the Left might call it a form of theocracy–except they’re too busy using their Catholic patsies to advance their agenda, including the anti-religion and amoral points so high on their list.

I do get the counterargument, though, that many non “social justice” crowd people tend not to live out their faith in works of charity to the extent that they should. I think this is quite false for when it is a criticism targeted at active and faithful Catholics, conservative or not. I think it does apply more broadly to the vast number of lukewarm Catholics in our midst.

However, I don’t think the “social justice” crowd do themselves any favors here. By pushing so hard and openly for the government to solve problems of social welfare, turning a blind eye to concerns about just how it does so or to what other things are being advanced alongside, they have truly helped create a society that believes it is the government’s responsibility to take care of people–not our own!

And so we end abdicating our personal responsibility for charity to the government, and worse, hindering our ability to engage in private charity because the government claims so much of our wealth.

I dearly wish they would turn their attention instead, not to government, but to the Church. Encourage more active, more faithful Catholics. Help get us engaged in caring for our fellow man and building our communities so that we can build the Kingdom. Not sell out the Kingdom of God to the kingdoms of man in which we live, and not pass by the people in need because some government official is supposed to be the one taking care of them.

Our Church practically invented large scale charity, with our schools, hospitals, orphanages, monasteries, convents, etc. IF we had focused on these rather than governments, we might truly be making a much larger impact on the welfare of our fellow brothers and sisters in this world than any governments can hope to.

Imagine if the wealth of the modern age had been turned to charity–NOT government control–by a culture with a spirit as dedicated to Christ as the West once was through the Church. We could be lifting the whole world out of poverty, giving them unprecedented health care, education, and meeting their material and (most importantly!) spiritual needs.

Instead, many liberal Catholics effectively abandon that vision to put too much of their faith in a state-run one (rather than a Christ-run, charitable Church); this triggers the conservative to oppose them, creating internal division and weakening the whole; and it leaves lukewarm Catholics (the majority) believing that it’s primarily the government’s role to take care of people, not our own.
 
Is it an extreme example when we find dozens and dozens of groups funding abortions, contraceptives and all manner of things contra to the Church? Even the bishops themselves who unwittingly gave $1.8 million of Catholic money last year to these “social justice” organizations have not ever denied this report. This is just one little example.

reformcchdnow.com/media/CCHD%20Report%20for%20web%2010.3.2011_reported.pdf
One conservative commentator said (tongue in cheek) that the “patron saint” of “social justice” should be Judas Iscariot:rolleyes:
 
One conservative commentator said (tongue in cheek) that the “patron saint” of “social justice” should be Judas Iscariot:rolleyes:
This is a good example of the other side mixing politics and Christianity, and why I quit listening to conservative radio several years ago. We are supposed to be the salt of the world, not the ones flavored by the world’s sarcastic partisanship.
 
…More than that, the real co-opting going on is that the charitable drive of the Church has been subverted by a “social justice” crowd that pushes for government solutions rather than charitable ones. It attempts to use the government to meet their ends, regardless of the cost or concerns of government intervention, be it law, liberty, constitution, or Church principles of subsidiarity sold out for an easy solution with the vast power of the state.
… etc.
I agree with most of what you say here, and have a concern with giving to the Church’s “charitable” causes for the reasons stated above. A couple of years ago, the bishops “suspended” their funding of ACORN, an Alinsky-ite organization that promotes activity designed to destroy our government, and it wasn’t “suspended” because of the goals of ACORN but because one of the executives embezzled $7 million from it. While that would be justification by itself for de-funding, one wonders why it was even funded in the first place without a modicum of scrutiny of ACORN’s background. I don’t have any evidence, but would bet dollars to doughnuts that the bishops had unknowingly funded abortions through ACORN. Another concern is the word “suspended”. Why not “ceased”?
 
I am a Catholic first and have warned others about blind party loyalties, but it would be a very good thing for us to closely examine some of the associations the Catholic Church claims an alliance with (and funds.) We need to understand how some of these social justice groups (their label, not ours) are antithetical to Church teaching. The phrase social justice now constitutes a sociopolitical program within the Church for those driven by the agenda (call them progressives, call them dissident Catholics, call them whatever you like.)

For starters, you could look at the very detailed 212-page report that recently came from ALL exposing the political goals of these groups which are given Catholic money by the U. S. Bishops Anti-Poverty Arm, under their banner of “Social Justice,” which among other things, promotes school health programs which distribute condoms and refers students to abortion providers. And then there’s the community housing and worker’s rights projects promoting the “Transgender Day of Remembrance” and which openly participate in the Marxist U.S. Social Forum. And please check out the Intercommunity Justice & Peace Center which claims membership with the Internat’l Socialist Organization and chants the need to end oppression and exploitation. All being done in the name of social justice.

We (Catholics) did not assign a different meaning to the term, nor did we ever expect to see government partnering with Christian churches to accomplish specific platforms which only advance humanism (contrary to papal documents.) Where is the gospel message being advanced which speaks of salvation and repentence for sin? How is individual freedom being protected so that people may direct their own lives free from State intervention? And where is the message that love of God and neighbor may be born from right judgments and true charity to better the situations of the poor rather than an ideology that always, but always replaces God with government control.
Absolutely and unequivocally true.

And now we are dealing with the consequences of decades of substituting the state for God.
 
More than that, the real co-opting going on is that the charitable drive of the Church has been subverted by a “social justice” crowd that pushes for government solutions rather than charitable ones.
Which means that, by definition, “social justice” = political “solutions” and political activism, or it’s supposedly not social justice.

I don’t know who is doing the subverting (inside or outside the Church), but what I do know is that Catholic social justice has become informally synonymous with secular, aggressively liberal assumptions and policies, many of which are not being scrutinized by the Church for their harmony with authenitc Church teaching.

(If it “helps people” it must be good. The only problem is, how do you define “help”? Who is doing the “helping” and what is involved in that “help”? And whomever or whatever you assume you’re “helping” via political solutions for human needs, what other people, also in need of help, are being hurt or neglected?)
 
…(If it “helps people” it must be good. The only problem is, how do you define “help”? …
“Help” means anything that makes liberals feel good about themselves. They win by persistence; they never give up. Long after others have gone home out of frustration with liberals on a committee, they are left to vote in their agenda even though they might comprise only a quarter of the committee. I experienced this myself after a knock-down-drag-out argument with an extreme liberal on our food pantry committee. You can’t “help” the poor by facilitating their own self-destructive behavior, but she was adamant that what she thought was Catholic social teaching must be implemented at all costs. I quit in frustration; now she is in charge.
 
I don’t have any evidence, but would bet dollars to doughnuts that the bishops had unknowingly funded abortions through ACORN.
So why would do accuse leaders of the Church of some scandal based on no evidence?

Again, you give a prime example of the other side that puts politics (of the right in this case) ahead of Christianity.
 
Yes, you are on the right track. Social justice allows progressive groups and people in the church to “justify” their path. They can embrace social justice and remain silent on a host of other topics such as: contraception, abortion, divorce/remarriage, same sex relations, etc.

This goes back to Human Vitae in some respects. These same people set out to make a concerted effort to undermine the Pope. They then could stay in the church and dissent at the same time. What a deal!

Removing the pope however leaves a void in catholic life. This was filled by inflating social justice. Now they can contracept and receive the eucharist without even a bruise on their conscience.

They forgot however about particular judgment. This error, or rather heresy, will be their undoing.

RealCatholic TV has a great episode of CIA (Catholic Investigative Agency) that is titled Pope Pius XII and the Jews. This short video lays out the timeline and motivation for displacing the pope for dissent in the church.

realcatholictv.com/free/index.php?vidID=ciax-2011-08-26&ssnID=162

You may have to register to see this show. It is free. It is also fantastic.
Yes because I hang with Tony Campolo, Jim Wallis, Sojourners, Pace E Ben, the Jesuits, and many other progressive Christian organizations I am undermining the Holy Father and his flock! (And I’m not even Catholic!) :rolleyes:
 
So why would do accuse leaders of the Church of some scandal based on no evidence?
I did say “unknowingly”. I don’t think they did their homework, like finding out what kind of people were running ACORN and what it stood for.
Again, you give a prime example of the other side that puts politics (of the right in this case) ahead of Christianity.
I don’t know what you mean by this.
 
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