Israel - should the UN have established it?

[Rau]

A friend of mine remarked recently that there was an injustice done to Arab peoples last century when the (new) State of Israel was established. His argument is: The original Israel was lost many centuries ago and there is no basis in law to re-establish it. While Jewish people were horrendously maligned in the early to mid years of last century, it did not justify confiscating the (long established) land of others so that Jewish people could come together in their own State. Is this view much shared by others? Is there a sound counter-position?

 

[paulrxp]

A friend of mine remarked recently that there was an injustice done to Arab peoples last century when the (new) State of Israel was established. His argument is: The original Israel was lost many centuries ago and there is no basis in law to re-establish it. While Jewish people were horrendously maligned in the early to mid years of last century, it did not justify confiscating the (long established) land of others so that Jewish people could come together in their own State. Is this view much shared by others? Is there a sound counter-position?

It may be hindsight now, but I’d still say NO it should not have been established, but for other reasons. The reasons I’ve heard by Israeli’s as to why it should be established and returned to them is because they believed they were the original owners of the land. Now even if we could confirm historically that their claim and ownership of the land is valid, the precedence for returning the land doesn’t apply in many other places. I’m not sure why they should be an exception.

What I mean is If we apply the same standard justified to establish the state of Israel, then every indigenous people who lost their land has the same justification not only to have the land back, but also to establish a state regardless of who is presently living their now. There are a lot of Indians, Africans and Aborigines who are scratching their heads and probably not convinced by Israel’s explanation for why they have a right to a piece of land, and they(indigenous people) are not afforded the same statehood.

Also, don’t overlook the small detail that the Catholic Church and her New Covenant with God is also the new Israel.

 

[faithfulwannabe]

It may be hindsight now, but I’d still say NO it should not have been established, but for other reasons. The reasons I’ve heard by Israeli’s as to why it should be established and returned to them is because they believed they were the original owners of the land. Now even if we could confirm historically that their claim and ownership of the land is valid, the precedence for returning the land doesn’t apply in many other places. I’m not sure why they should be an exception.

What I mean is If we apply the same standard justified to establish the state of Israel, then every indigenous people who lost their land has the same justification not only to have the land back, but also to establish a state regardless of who is presently living their now. There are a lot of Indians, Africans and Aborigines who are scratching their heads and probably not convinced by Israel’s explanation for why they have a right to a piece of land, and they(indigenous people) are not afforded the same statehood.

Also, don’t overlook the small detail that the Catholic Church and her New Covenant with God is also the new Israel.

If it’s so, why are many people taking side with Israel then? What is the US doing supporting their country & military?

 

[Peebo]

I understand a large part of our involvement with Israel is because of a mainly Evangelical Protestant belief that we as a nation have been blessed by God because of our support for Israel…also many Evangelical Protestants see the forming of the state of Israel as a sign of the end times…of course quite a few Catholics support these views also…I don’t know about other countries but it seems mainly something that Christians here in the US believe…it does seem a fairly recent belief because if you read about what was happening to the Jews in Europe under Hitler no country…including the US wanted to do anything to help…the US even turned away a ship full of Jewish refugees which had to return to Europe and probably extermination by the Nazis.

 

[phil19034]

If it’s so, why are many people taking side with Israel then? What is the US doing supporting their country & military?

America is a Protestant nation. Many protestants (especially the fundamentalists) do not believe that the Church (or Christianity for that matter) is the new Israel. Some even believe that until the Jews have total control of the land given to them, God’s promise hasn’t been fulfilled.

 

[faithfulwannabe]

wow! talk about false beliefs

who will be responsible for this gigantic huge great mistake then?

 

[marymary1975]

I agree with the establishment if Israel and u do totally see the reasoning behind it. Having said that, what I don’t agree with is with the way it was done. Basically it was done with the conquering mentality similar to when the Europeans invaded america and Africa. They came invading people and imposing their own rules on the locals. Not the ideal way.

 

[Peebo]

I don’t know if they are false beliefs or not…I would like to hear what the Catholic Church teaches…if anything… about what many Americans believe about God blessing those that bless Israel…and cursing those who curse Israel…maybe someone here can give a Catholic perspective

 

[phil19034]

I don’t know if they are false beliefs or not…I would like to hear what the Catholic Church teaches…if anything… about what many Americans believe about God blessing those that bless Israel…and cursing those who curse Israel…maybe someone here can give a Catholic perspective

The only teaching I’m aware of regarding this is that the killing of innocent people on both sides (esp. women and children) is never justified.

 

[paulrxp]

If it’s so, why are many people taking side with Israel then? What is the US doing supporting their country & military?

You may want to pose that question to your political leaders, and consider everything I mentioned previously as to whether their reasons jive with the reality

There are few reasons, probably more. First, we have to be careful of a few assumptions. There may be many who support Israel, but just as many who are against Israel. What’s more important are their reasons and if these reasons are justified.

• There are those who support Israel solely because Israel is at odds with Muslim extremism. In this case, those who are anti Islam will support Israel on the belief that Islam is a threat to Israel as it is a threat to them.
• Some show sympathy to Israel because they’re the underdog. A small Jewish state surrounded by Islamic states, most of which are their enemies.
• Israel to some is the only democracy in that region that has had a long standing alliance and relations with the US. As you’ve stated, that sort of begs the question. I’ll leave it to the experts as to whether they truly are a democracy. All I can tell you is the current Israeli President was in the cabinet or held a high office ever since I was in grade school. Now considering I’m in my mid-40’s that’s an awful long time to be in position of power. Can we even question why things never change or get resolved there?
• I’m as perplexed as many as to why they get the support from the US government. Is it for oil, a military base, terrorist intelligence? With the recent wars and conflicts the US has been involved with in the Middle East, I find it a little too coincidental the leaders of those nations we went to war against were enemies of Israel, at least 2 of them have been taken out. Think Saddam and Qaddafi. Then ask yourselves what were the fruits of that endeavor, who benefited more, the US or the Israelis?
• Getting back to the religious reasons. Many Christians , not we Catholics or Orthodox believe that the Israel must exist so that their dispensationalist view of prophecy can occur. Sure the Jews are Gods chosen people, but a New Covenant with his people was established by Christ. Prophecy as it relates to the Rapture(a version the Church categorically rejects) involves events in Israel that needs occur if Christ is to return. At least in their view. Israel not existing, the Temple not being rebuilt throws that dispensationalist view right out the window. So that’s why you see the most fervent supporters are fundamentalist Christians who feel Israel has a role is in their non-Biblical view and understanding of the Rapture.

At the end of the day, much like what’s happening in the Middle East, the Christians suffer the most between the conflict between Jews vs Muslims
It would be beneficial to our fellow Christians in Israel in the Middle East that we understand who we support and why, who benefits , who losses. I totally love how the Holy Father has brought the plight of Christians in the ME, and how he’s shown unity with the Orthodox Patriarch in prayer. This isn’t just Jews vs Muslims, and neither of those sides should receive our support just because we have a bias against one of them.

 

[captainrick]

If it’s so, why are many people taking side with Israel then? What is the US doing supporting their country & military?

I think mostly because Israel is politically friendly to the U.S., as opposed to the surrounding nations.

 

[Hrvatski]

I agree with the establishment if Israel and u do totally see the reasoning behind it. Having said that, what I don’t agree with is with the way it was done. Basically it was done with the conquering mentality similar to when the Europeans invaded america and Africa. They came invading people and imposing their own rules on the locals. Not the ideal way.

You might want to Google “The history of Jewish land purchases in Palestine.”

 

[dee_burk]

The only teaching I’m aware of regarding this is that the killing of innocent people on both sides (esp. women and children) is never justified.

 

[on_the_hill]

IIRC, the UN didn’t create the modern Israel. My understanding is that Britain carved it out of British controlled areas shortly after WWII. But I’m not a student of the happenings in the Levant, so I’m not certain about it.

 

[teeboy]

It may be hindsight now, but I’d still say NO it should not have been established, but for other reasons. The reasons I’ve heard by Israeli’s as to why it should be established and returned to them is because they believed they were the original owners of the land. Now even if we could confirm historically that their claim and ownership of the land is valid, the precedence for returning the land doesn’t apply in many other places. I’m not sure why they should be an exception.

What I mean is If we apply the same standard justified to establish the state of Israel, then every indigenous people who lost their land has the same justification not only to have the land back, but also to establish a state regardless of who is presently living their now. There are a lot of Indians, Africans and Aborigines who are scratching their heads and probably not convinced by Israel’s explanation for why they have a right to a piece of land, and they(indigenous people) are not afforded the same statehood.

Also, don’t overlook the small detail that the Catholic Church and her New Covenant with God is also the new Israel.

The Hebrews were not indigenous to Palestine. Abraham was born South of Babylon. I like the Jewish People, but Jesus is the Messianic King, and I firmly believe that King David even knows that his heir, Jesus, is the Messianic King.

 

[clintonm]

I am not the most well-studied person on the planet but I believe that originally the idea for Israel came from Aurthor Balfour in 1922 with the idea of setting aside permanent lands for a Jewish state that would comprise an area currently much larger than the modern state of Israel.

The British Empire came into possession of the lands following World War I with the Mandate of Palestine and was formally granted the territories of Syria and the Trans-Jordan from the League of Nations. That was about 1920. The British had taken the land from the former Ottoman Empire and then with the support of a Zionist movement Balfour declared the promise of a Jewish homeland. During this time there was ever increasing Jewish immigration into the lands.

In 1947 The United Nations proposed a partition plan in Palestine, but that was rejected by the British and the Unitied Nations at large. This era saw escalating violence between the Arabs and the Jews as the British military forces withdrew. Finally in 1948 Israel announced its independance and declared itself a state. Initially, as Britain, France and the United States were not supportive of the Jewish state the Soviet Union offered aid and support in an attempt to gerner a socialist ally in the Middle East. However Israel rejected the Soviet Union and by 1970 the United States was their closest ally.

Personally, do I hold that the modern state of Israel in biblical in any sense? No, Jesus made the Church the new Israel. Do I think the creation of the state was done well? Nope. However, with all of that said I do realize that Israel is the only state in the region that respects religious liberty and individual liberty in any fashion. I also realize that the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas and ISIS are all very real and dangerous threats to not just the stability in the Middle East but globaly. Israel is the only nation in a position and with the will to resist those forces right now, and pragmatically that means something.

 

[Hrvatski]

On November 29 1947 the UN voted 33-13 to partition Palestine into a Jewish and Palestinian state. The Arabs walked out of the vote. On May 14 1948 Israel declared itself independent. The same day 5 Arab armies invaded to new state.
Ski

 

[clintonm]

I had the understanding that the specific UN Council for the partition approved of the vote, but when brought to the UN at-large it was rejected as there was no British support for the movement. At the time the British were doing everything they could to keep Jewish militants out of the territory.

 

[Hrvatski]

Great Britian abstained but all of the UK’s Commonwealth partners voted in favor of Resolution 181.
Ski

 

[phil19034]

Great Britian abstained but all of the UK’s Commonwealth partners voted in favor of Resolution 181.

        Ski

The British has actually promissed the land to the Arab Muslims in exchange for them fighting along side the British in WW2.