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Dubay
Guest
No worries only love of the savior Jesus Christ, There is three Catholic churches near my home. I notice variances in all three in words and actions during mass. But the intent and goal is the same.
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Brendan
Guest
Nope, as Christ Himself noted to the two faithful servants “You have been faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your Master’s joy”
Mt 25:30
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smndtupidisaftr
Guest
See, this is when calling ourselves catholic becomes a problem. Catholic means universal. This is why Latin was used, because it was the universal language (once upon a time). We should not have these differences between parishes. It takes the whole meaning of catholic and just disregards it.
At least IMO.
And to respond to all of the previous posts, yes, normally I would disregard the cup/chalice issue, especially since it seems as though it is not intentional since he has says chalice on occasion. It’s really the breaking of the Host at consecration that gets me. When the CDWDS says outright that it is absolutely wrong, that’s when I get a little perturbed.
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buc_fan33
Guest
Friend, I would say this. While no priest has the authority to change the rubrics on his own accord, none of us have the authority to supersede the Gospel. Christ’s call was first to go to the individual, then take two or three brothers, and finally to go to the Church. Those who are suggesting the OP go directly to the bishop seem to be bypassing steps one and two.
And, no offense, but I don’t know of a single bishop who has time to deal with something that, relatively speaking, is pretty small. Right now, due to the HHS mandate, bishops are trying to figure out how they are going to provide health care to their chancery employes, and keep their Catholic schools open. They have countless Confirmations to celebrate, meetings to go to, perhaps an ad liming visit to prepare for and go to, bishops have plenty on their plate.
Take it up in charity with the priest in question.
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superamazingman
Guest
That’s not AT ALL in keeping with the mind of the church. Here’s what redemptonis sacramentum says about it:
"In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected."
See that? “All” abuses. Does that sound at all like “if it’s valid, it’s ok” ??? I don’t think so. It sounds like a polar opposite.
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superamazingman
Guest
I do know of a bishop who would have time (or make time) to deal with a problem like this, because he values the liturgy, and places it in the top priority, as the church asks us to do, especially in issues where the church has stated clearly that it should be corrected “with haste.”
Or, simply put, "Lex orandi, lex credendi.’
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Don_Jackson
Guest
Rubics dont guarantee salvation. The blood of Christ does.
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superamazingman
Guest
And you know what Christ said? He that is faithful in small matters is faithful in large ones.
Those aren’t my words that I was quoting. That was the words of the church, found in redemptonis sacramentum. Just know who you’re going against. It ain’t me.
By the way, that’s a very protestant attitude to have (discarding the ritual for Jesus alone).
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buc_fan33
Guest
superamazingman, no one is arguing with you that following the rubrics of the liturgy is important. I can personally say that I am meticulous about following the rubrics when I celebrate Mass. However, I often make mistakes. If I were doing something consistently wrong, I would hope that someone would A) give me the benefit of the doubt that I simply am unaware that what I am doing is wrong, and B) have the courtesy to bring it up with me personally before going to my bishop.
Yes, the fractioning rite comes during the Lamb of God. It’s wrong to fraction the host where he is doing it. But, when was the priest trained? Does he know better? Is he from a different liturgical rite and helping out at a parish that otherwise would not have a priest, and thus no Mass?
The faithful are entitled to a well-celebrated liturgy, without doubt. Implied in that is a liturgy celebrated according to the rubrics of the Church. But, we are called in liturgy to more than just, “Do the red, say the black.” I know at one point, early in my conversion, that I would over analyze every single thing the priest did at Mass, and as a result, I was in fact the one who was not praying.
I love the liturgy, and, again, I try and celebrate according to the rubrics of the Church. But, I make mistakes. I realize I may do things differently than some of my brother priests. But, I try not to judge them. Many of these men have devoted their entire lives to service of the Church and they deserve our respect.
With respect to RS, yes, we are to correct all abuses, and, as you say, with haste. You won’t find any argument from me there. The question is how do we do so in Christian charity? It does not strike me as charitable to go directly to a man’s bishop, or to openly criticize priests. Sadly, this is what I hear and read often with respect to liturgy.
Maybe it’s the era I grew up in, or rather didn’t grow up in, but I’ve never seen a clown Mass. I’ve never been to a liturgy where I had any doubt about its validity. I’ve never met a priest, bishop, deacon, or seminarian who openly tries to be disobedient (and I’ve met hundreds).
Many blessings to you brother!
Yes, the fractioning rite comes during the Lamb of God. It’s wrong to fraction the host where he is doing it. But, when was the priest trained? Does he know better? Is he from a different liturgical rite and helping out at a parish that otherwise would not have a priest, and thus no Mass?
The faithful are entitled to a well-celebrated liturgy, without doubt. Implied in that is a liturgy celebrated according to the rubrics of the Church. But, we are called in liturgy to more than just, “Do the red, say the black.” I know at one point, early in my conversion, that I would over analyze every single thing the priest did at Mass, and as a result, I was in fact the one who was not praying.
I love the liturgy, and, again, I try and celebrate according to the rubrics of the Church. But, I make mistakes. I realize I may do things differently than some of my brother priests. But, I try not to judge them. Many of these men have devoted their entire lives to service of the Church and they deserve our respect.
With respect to RS, yes, we are to correct all abuses, and, as you say, with haste. You won’t find any argument from me there. The question is how do we do so in Christian charity? It does not strike me as charitable to go directly to a man’s bishop, or to openly criticize priests. Sadly, this is what I hear and read often with respect to liturgy.
Maybe it’s the era I grew up in, or rather didn’t grow up in, but I’ve never seen a clown Mass. I’ve never been to a liturgy where I had any doubt about its validity. I’ve never met a priest, bishop, deacon, or seminarian who openly tries to be disobedient (and I’ve met hundreds).
Many blessings to you brother!
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Elizium23
Guest
Although RS says the practice is “contrary to the tradition of the Church” and “reprobated” it does omit it from the list of “Grave Matters” in #173. So it is not actually considered as serious as many other things listed therein.
Incorrect. The Church asserts that we, the faithful, have a right to a properly celebrated liturgy. Some interpretations will even tell you that we have a duty to correct abuses.
“Redemptionis Sacramentum” said:
So you see clearly the rights and duties of all Catholics enshrined in law. It is unfair and uncharitable for people to complain without reason, and for people to unnecessarily “go over the heads” of clergy involved in abuses; we should always observe the principle of subsidiarity. Correction starts with a discreet conversation with the priest himself. But nobody should be intimidating others into silence. It is the bishop’s duty to the faithful to regulate a properly-celebrated liturgy. If he never hears of abuses then he can never correct them before they get out of hand. The Church has given us rights and we should be free to exercise them when necessary.
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