Issues other than abortion

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So, the big question is: Are the unborn individual persons with a right to life?
 
One of the great things about birth is that it causes the baby to no longer be inside her. It’s a great solution to pregnancy.
 
HopkinsReb said:
One of the great things about birth is that it causes the baby to no longer be inside her. It’s a great solution to pregnancy.
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It’s a solution with tremendous costs physically and financially. So she should be forced to bear those?
 
Vonsalza said:
I’m not pro-abortion. I’m pro choice.

Let. The. Woman. Choose.
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But this doesn t make a woman more “ woman”…nor empowers her nor sets her free…It is a mirage…
Say for example: “ Let The Man Choose” to hit one down to pieces or send somebody do it for him. This is freedom. The “ nuisance” has disappeared. After all at what exact point does a woman have exactly the same rights as a man ?
And the child is voiceless…who answers for the child? How would you answer with duck tape on your mouth ?
Do you realize the violence and nonsensical of all this?
This a power game. A terrible one…
 
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Vonsalza said:
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HopkinsReb:
One of the great things about birth is that it causes the baby to no longer be inside her. It’s a great solution to pregnancy.
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It’s a solution with tremendous costs physically and financially. So she should be forced to bear those?
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Why should a baby be murdered because mom and dad couldn’t keep it in their pants?
 
But what does abortion do? It kills an innocent, living being. Why should women have the right to end the life of their children for economic or personal reasons? They can’t kill their born children for these reasons. Why does the fact that the unborn are in the womb negate their right to life?
 
Not at all. It’s about freeing a woman from a body and life-changing burden that she doesn’t want.
 
The Holocaust was going to save the Nazis from a burden they didn’t want, too.
 
lagerald24 said:
But what does abortion do? It kills an innocent, living being. Why should women have the right to end the life of their children for economic or personal reasons?
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Because just like you, a woman should have control over her body.
They can’t kill their born children for these reasons.
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Sure. The born children aren’t physically part of her.
Why does the fact that the unborn are in the womb negate their right to life?
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Because their right to life doesn’t trump her right to not want to be pregnant.
 
Vonsalza said:
At birth, the fetus obtains a critical degree of personhood. Present law reflects this.
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Birth is pretty much an irrelevancy to the fetus in terms of what it actually is. It no more changes its essence then than when it becomes a teenager; we just use different terms to describe it. What the law recognizes is also an irrelevancy in regard to what a fetus is, which is why an assault in Kentucky (Iowa? Maine?..) that kills a fetus is a murder while the identical act in New York is simply an assault.

At birth the fetus obtains (for now at least) only the full protection of the law. What it actually is is unaffected by state legislatures.
 
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There is no magic birth canal that gives a child a right to life, contra popular thought. Being a human person gives someone a right to life. Why should women infringe on this right of all rights? People are much more important than money, houses, or the polar bears and their plight after all…
 
Vonsalza said:
Because their right to life doesn’t trump her right to not want to be pregnant.
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Ah, here we go. You admit that there is a right to life, but that you think that right trivial. But only persons have rights; tumors and parasites don’t have rights. So you have admitted fetal personhood, and you have admitted that you simply think it’s okay to kill innocent people to spare some difficulties.
 
Ender said:
Birth is pretty much an irrelevancy to the fetus in terms of what it actually is.
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I can tell you from thrice personal experience that they start breathing with their own lungs, eating with their own mouths and pooping and peeing into diapers instead of into the mother’s uterus.

Birth creates an enormous step of biological independence from its mother.
 
HopkinsReb said:
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Vonsalza:
Because their right to life doesn’t trump her right to not want to be pregnant.
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Ah, here we go. You admit that there is a right to life, but that you think that right trivial.
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Not at all. It’s just not as important as a mother’s right to not have to carry a baby she doesn’t want and face the permanent change pregnancy brings.
 
Vonsalza said:
I can tell you from thrice personal experience that they start breathing with their own lungs, eating with their own mouths and pooping and peeing into diapers instead of into the mother’s uterus.

Birth creates an enormous step of biological independence from its mother.
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See above.
 
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