Issues other than abortion

[Victoria33]

As long as stats are thrown around, how about those showing disproportionate rates of abortion with some minority women? Meaning much higher rates.

Also, some surveys have shown the public wants quite a lot of restrictions on abortion, so one really needs to check out these polls. They are often disputed as to methodology. Some polls say things like the majority of Americans want most abortions made illegal.

 

[Ender]

No, progression. Huge jump at birth.

According to you what distinguishes a person from a non-person is birth. That isn’t a progression. It is an event that includes no significant change in the fetus. Apparently a fetus delivered by cesarean is still a non-person until the cord is cut, at which point it becomes a person. Can you seriously believe that cutting the cord is actually what creates a person? If it wasn’t a person before the cord was cut, and is a person afterward, wouldn’t it have to be that cutting the cord creates the person?

 

[Vonsalza]

As long as stats are thrown around, how about those showing disproportionate rates of abortion with some minority women?

I’m rusty, but last I checked I think they were mostly minorities. But If I’m wrong on any facts, I’m happy to walk them back.

Also, some surveys have shown the public wants quite a lot of restrictions on abortion, so one really needs to check out these polls. They are often disputed as to methodology. Some polls say things like the marity of Americans want most abortions made illegal.

Sure. And some polls show that 90% of democrats favor the right to choose as to 34% of republicans, oddly.

 

[HopkinsReb]

The name-calling is tiresome and inconsistent with someone actually trying to have rational discourse

Name-calling?

You have stated that you believe that fetuses are persons and that you are okay with their being slaughtered. I’m simply repeatedly stating your position. If you object to being called a supporter of genocide, well, stop supporting genocide.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

No, progression. Huge jump at birth.

According to you what distinguishes a person from a non-person is birth. That isn’t a progression.

Of course it is. Personhood is about entitlements to rights. You get more as you grow older. When you get too old, you lose some.

It is an event that includes no significant change in the fetus.

Birth is an event that shows an enormous change in the relation of the fetus to its mother - it’s no longer physically part of her.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

The natural and logical conclusion is that you must be pro-choice and allow the individual to choose for themselves

Have you proven this?

 

[Victoria33]

So what does this say? Abortion is just for nine months?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

No, it’s proof that people in-utero aren’t considered “full persons”.

That’s like saying the enslavement of Africans or discrimination of homosexuals is proof that they are less human.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

You get more as you grow older. When you get too old, you lose some.

Except that those rights are arbitrary.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

The natural and logical conclusion is that you must be pro-choice and allow the individual to choose for themselves

Have you proven this?

I don’t have to, individual liberty is the default.

 

[Vonsalza]

So what does this say? Abortion is just for nine months?

Its says that for 9 months the baby is a part of the mother and thus subject to her will

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

No, it’s proof that people in-utero aren’t considered “full persons”.

That’s like saying the enslavement of Africans or discrimination of homosexuals is proof that they are less human.

No it isn’t. Those are people, participating in this world.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I don’t have to, individual liberty is the default.

So murder and theft are also alright with that and you still fail to prove why liberty is more important than someone’s right to live.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

I don’t have to, individual liberty is the default.

So murder and theft are also alright with that and you still fail to prove why liberty is more important than someone’s right to live.

Murder and theft are crimes against people and thus illegal. Easy.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Those are people, participating in this world

That means that the lack investigations isn’t the proof but “not participating in the world.”

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Those are people, participating in this world

That means that the lack investigations isn’t the proof but “not participating in the world.”

No Africans and homosexuals are individuals. A fetus is not an individual apart from its mother. This its mother has absolute dominion over it.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Murder and theft are crimes against people

You have to prove why these crimes are inadmissible in the face of liberty aka default position.

 

[Victoria33]

Its says that for 9 months the baby is a part of the mother and thus subject to her will

So, you think that even late term abortions should not be illegal? This is why, the next thing up and it’s already been brought up is infanticide. It is more like your definitions are arbitrary, why not at viability and so on?

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Murder and theft are crimes against people

You have to prove why these crimes are inadmissible in the face of liberty aka default position.

Easy they’re constraints against the liberty of other people.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Its says that for 9 months the baby is a part of the mother and thus subject to her will

So, you think that even late term abortions should not be illegal? This is why, the next thing up and it’s already been brought up is infanticide. It is more like your definitions are arbitrary, why not at viability and so on?

Because birth is the moment at which a child becomes truly separate from its mother.