so again, I can run your grandmother over at the crosswalk.goout:
Sure. And the control over your own self and the right to determine what is good for your self should be a bedrock philosophy.Vonsalza:
No that’s false.goout:
Truly. Particularly the barbarism of telling women what they must do with their own bodies.
The point of laws is the good of human beings. That’s morality and human rights 101.
Is my grandmother part of your self?
Sorry, but “objective reality” has to creep in here. What you wrote may be your OPINION, but it’s not true. Look it up. The sperm and egg each carry half of the required chromosomes of DNA. It takes time (about 4 days) for the DNA strands to escape their casings, split into chunks, and re-assemble themselves into a brand new, unique DNA sequence. Look it up. (This is one of the common myths of the pro-life supporters.)
Oh, there’s objective truth all right. Can we know it? That’s a religious question. Each group thinks they have the answer. Obviously they can’t all be right. But who’s to say? The group with the biggest army?
Ah, but then you have a benefit! It wouldn’t necessarily make her a good mother, but it wouldn’t make her a murderer, either.
This wasn’t directed at me, but I’ll own it. Jains would think we “trivialize life” because we swat mosquitos. That’s their opinion. It’s not mine. You have your opinions, I have mine. Let’s make a deal: you don’t impose your beliefs on me, I won’t impose my beliefs on you!
But–yet again–that’s the issue. If YOU had an abortion, you would be a murderer, because you believe you are killing a human being. If a woman has an abortion at 4 weeks and believes she is just getting rid of some unwanted cells, she is NOT a murderer because she doesn’t see anything wrong. This is Catholic doctrine. Please don’t pick and choose!
Your position is ignorant of science , human nature, and basic morality.goout:
Is my grandmother part of your self?
Of course not. My position is just rather consistent and rational and you’re getting frustrated by that. I understand, as I’ve been on the receiving end of that plenty of times.
I’m on the side of liberty.
Do you know what liberty is?goout:
I’m on the side of liberty.
This is why you need to be on the forums more.
No one can speak for the fetus and only the mother should speak for herself.Vonsalza:
Do you know what liberty is?goout:
I’m on the side of liberty.
No.
You propose absolute license not liberty.
You have not thought this through have you.
Right because they are voiceless. Right. I understand what youre saying.goout:
No one can speak for the fetus and only the mother should speak for herself.Vonsalza:
Do you know what liberty is?goout:
I’m on the side of liberty.
No.
You propose absolute license not liberty.
You have not thought this through have you.
She must have the liberty to choose.
If name-calling is all you’ve got left, then the debate ends in my favor, goout.
Well let’s talk!goout:
If name-calling is all you’ve got left, then the debate ends in my favor, goout.
I"ll have to jump in on that one! Morality? Maybe. I don’t claim to know absolute truth the way some people do. I may be wrong. I may be right. I think I’m right.
I’ve answered that probably 15 times in this exchange, no exaggeration.
Right. The Richard Dawson theory of morality.goout:
I"ll have to jump in on that one! Morality? Maybe. I don’t claim to know absolute truth the way some people do. I may be wrong. I may be right. I think I’m right.
But history? Sorry, history’s on a train headed away from you. Take a look at the numbers of countries that have legalized abortion in some way (yes, for different reasons and at different stages). Look at the results of referendums–take Ireland as an example.
And, as I’ve said on another thread that you were on, take a look at polls in the US. The essential poll question is one that represents the pro-life movement the best: “Should all abortions be illegal?”
1975: 22% said yes. 2017 or so: only 18% said year. Your side is losing ground. If you want to see someone on the wrong side of history…
Isn’t science wonderful?
Ok, but that that point, she’s not on the wrong side of history - she’s on the wrong side of your perception of history.
Trump card bodily autonomy.goout:
I’ve answered that probably 15 times in this exchange, no exaggeration.
The right of bodily autonomy and self determination ends when it begins to affect another person.
A fetus does not have bodily autonomy that trumps the mothers bodily autonomy and it has no capacity for self determination.
Sure. The mother is a person in a way the fetus is not. I’m extremely interested in preserving her human rights. Thus my position.