Issues other than abortion

[goout]

Sbee0:

It’s not an argument that their right to life should be violated or treated as less worthy than others.

This happens every day. Child die all over the world from lack of food, clean water, medical care, etc. Convicted criminals (ones possibly innocent) are put to death. Kids are taken from their families and die due to lack of care. Yet, are the OP stated, only abortion is talked about.

Did you know that Catholic Charities is one of the largest charities in the world?
Do you know what they do?

 

[Sbee0]

Sbee0:

It’s not an argument that their right to life should be violated or treated as less worthy than others.

This happens every day. Child die all over the world from lack of food, clean water, medical care, etc. Convicted criminals (ones possibly innocent) are put to death. Kids are taken from their families and die due to lack of care. Yet, are the OP stated, only abortion is talked about.

Only talked about by who? Us on this board? Catholics? The Right? I would disagree on all points. I would also say it’s high on the radar and passionately so on both sides of the debate. See Kavanaugh, Brett

 

[goout]

Sbee0:

It’s not an argument that their right to life should be violated or treated as less worthy than others.

This happens every day. Child die all over the world from lack of food, clean water, medical care, etc. Convicted criminals (ones possibly innocent) are put to death. Kids are taken from their families and die due to lack of care. Yet, are the OP stated, only abortion is talked about.

This is a Nazi argument to the core.
AW God, life is hard, and all the handicapped people can’t wipe their drool.
Let’s register them all and kill them.

All you people talking about how Jews are human beings, just shut up already, we have social progress at hand.

 

[laylow]

No, try and follow the discussion.

You are not good at this. A fertilized egg is a person (according to pro-life folk). Many fertilized eggs do not attach to the uterus wall, therefore they die. Humans are doing nothing to attempt to save these eggs, so apparently they are OK with their deaths?

Wait, you weren’t the one who said one human being’s agency has preference over another’s life?
should we go back and look, or would that be a waste of time? (It would be a waste of time)

Oh, wait, because you used a word like “agency” you are not really making an appeal to barbaric power. Because, like, agency is, agency, and like, that word has a special meaning.
You don’t own your own words. You make an appeal to barbaric power, but don’t want it to be too offensive.

When both are in danger of being harmed, one’s agency must be chosen over the other. Are you not in favor of self defense? If someone robs your house, are you justified in killing them? Even if you don’t know if they had any chance or notion of killing you?

 

[goout]

Cause you know, what’s best for us is what’s best for us, and we decide what’s best for us. And bigger issues like who’s a human being and who’s not, just shut up already.

We have social progress at hand.

 

[Sbee0]

ertilized egg is a person (according to pro-life folk). Many fertilized eggs do not attach to the uterus wall, therefore they die. Humans are doing nothing to attempt to save these eggs, so apparently they are OK with their deaths?

That of course is irrelevant to this discussion as that is not a willfully procured abortion. But I think you knew that as well.

 

[goout]

Yes, those drooling handicapped folks are a drain.
Self defense!
Yes self defense. We need to defend ourselves. Only so much to go around.

Because
Agency! My agency.

 

[Sbee0]

When both are in danger of being harmed, one’s agency must be chosen over the other. Are you not in favor of self defense? If someone robs your house, are you justified in killing them? Even if you don’t know if they had any chance or notion of killing you?

That is not the prochoice argument, that is the moderate prolife argument, in fact this was GWB’s opinion on abortion.

The prochoice argument is abortion any time, at any stage, for any reason the woman pleases because it’s her right. Or something.

 

[Vonsalza]

I’m afraid wishful thinking doesn’t make it so.

I guess it’s just a classic case of horses and water, right?

With the idea that life begins at conception? Not with ya on that one I’m afraid. I go with what science says. Science is fun. Science is fascinating. I like science. I like logic too.

Me too. I just wish there were credible, secular scientific articles that actually say what you claim…

Quite simple. So please prochoicers - don’t bring this trash to these debates that abortion is identical to getting rid of “tissue” or a tumor or clump of cells or whatever else you want to call it.

I’ve not made that claim anywhere. I agree that it’s a unique homosapien-in-development.

Unfortunately, this doesn’t literally nothing to offset the reality that it requires the bodily sacrifice of a woman and women have no obligation to perform it against their will.

Science supports my position.

No it doesn’t. From the American College of Pediatricians Website;

“As far as human ‘life’ per se, it is, for the most part, uncontroversial among the scientific and philosophical community that life begins at the moment when the genetic information contained in the sperm and ovum combine to form a genetically unique cell.”

This process occurs about 12 hours in. Furthermore;

“However, what is controversial is whether this genetically unique cell should be considered a human person.”

Science also says newborn infants, like unborn babies, have no self awareness.

Swing and a miss…

Babies Are Born with Some Self-Awareness

Babies are born with the ability to be aware of their bodies, new research suggests.

www.livescience.com

Vonsalza:

…it literally follows the simplest argumentative from of A=B, B=C thus A=C…

The only choice you have is to attack the truth value of the premises. So which one is untrue?
P: women have control over their bodies
P: fetal development requires a woman’s body

Let me know

A=C is logically invalid because C is wrong.

Ok, arguments can be rejected for two reasons; 1. There is an issue with validity. 2. There is an issue with soundness.

Validity deals with whether the argument’s structure is correct. Since I used literally the simplest structure you could use to make an argument, I’m good. Literally no way to screw that up.

As to soundness, you have to show me why my premises are untrue. Since they’re not, you’re just fumbling here…

Choice is simply the most logical outcome and your emotional attachment to the pro-life view makes it difficult for you to accept that - especially as evidenced by your calling me “dude” in combative frustration.

Women do not have control over the development of her fetus, nor is her unborn child part of her body.

Women must have control over their own bodies. If they don’t want any uninvited guests loitering about, they have the right to expel them.

 

[Kei]

I was not making a legal argument. I speak with those outside my “circle” (whatever that is) quite often.
I was not making any argument about abortion. I was trying to help someone out on a personal level.

 

[goout]

Women must have control over their own bodies. If they don’t want any uninvited quests loitering about, they have the right to expel them.

Because with Remax it’s
location location location

That’s what matters. Location.
Oh yes, and the fact that giving birth to a new human being is a horror that no one ever should endure.

 

[Vonsalza]

When it changes your body forever and is potentially lethal, they simply shouldn’t be forced into it.

 

[MamaJewel]

Though I do not mean to minimize the issue of abortion, I would like to say that there are other issues of importance in the USA.
Poverty, physical abuse, drug and other substance abuse, corruption, and so many other things.
I would like to see my brother and sister Catholics address these issues.
We can be concerned and focused on more than on issue at a time.
Love and peace to everyone!

Love and peace to you, too.

I have always wondered why there is so much focus on abortion to the extent that we lose sight of the impact of domestic violence on pregnant women. In my community, we have two crisis pregnancy centers and one domestic violence crisis center. The DV center is often in need of pull-ups, diapers and wipes, while the pregnancy centers in my community have a stockpile of supplies.

Since more pregnant women die or are injured by intimate partner violence than by complications of pregnancy like gestational diabetes or pre-eclampsia, one would think that DV prevention and safety programs receive support. Especially when these programs are known for providing a safe place for women to live, away from the threat of violence and potential death.

I wonder why there is such a lack of concern by many in society (religious and non-religious).

 

[goout]

When it changes your body forever and is potentially lethal, they simply shouldn’t be forced into it.

Childbirth. The new cancer.

 

[goout]

In our community there is tremendous concern for domestic violence. (one flavor of which is abortion, which spills out of the womb also when parents do things like burn kids with cigarettes cause like…"“my agency”" and all.)

In our neighborhood we have housing for women who are abandoned and United Fund has programs to help single parents get back on their feet and get food clothes for the kids. All the Churches participate.

Now, if the human society was starting a home for abandoned kittens, and at the same time your neighbors were clubbing them over the head…wouldn’t that be a little illogical?

 

[Vonsalza]

YourNameHere:

Though I do not mean to minimize the issue of abortion, I would like to say that there are other issues of importance in the USA.
Poverty, physical abuse, drug and other substance abuse, corruption, and so many other things.
I would like to see my brother and sister Catholics address these issues.
We can be concerned and focused on more than on issue at a time.
Love and peace to everyone!

Love and peace to you, too.

I have always wondered why there is so much focus on abortion to the extent that we lose sight of the impact of domestic violence on pregnant women. In my community, we have two crisis pregnancy centers and one domestic violence crisis center. The DV center is often in need of pull-ups, diapers and wipes, while the pregnancy centers in my community have a stockpile of supplies.

Since more pregnant women die or are injured by intimate partner violence than by complications of pregnancy like gestational diabetes or pre-eclampsia, one would think that DV prevention and safety programs receive support. Especially when these programs are known for providing a safe place for women to live, away from the threat of violence and potential death.

I wonder why there is such a lack of concern by many in society (religious and non-religious).

Residue of history.

Historically, women - particularly pregnant women - were chattel.

 

[goout]

Residue of history.

Historically, women - particularly pregnant women - were chattel.

And the answer is to kill children. Smart…
Cause like, if we kill children, and half of those are women, we have less women as chattel.

Brilliant!!
Women’s health. All about it.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Residue of history.

Historically, women - particularly pregnant women - were chattel.

And the answer is to kill children. Smart…
Cause like, if we kill children, and half of those are women, we have less women as chattel.

Brilliant!!

The reasoning behind it is that you liberate women from the control of anyone other than themselves. Their husbands can’t rule them, the fetus they don’t want can’t rule them.

They are their own and no one else’s.

 

[Kei]

Who makes that call?

What if it’s vaginal prolapse? That’s extremely common for women who have had a large number of births.

Vaginal prolapse can even be caused by lifting something heavy, you know. Yet, oddly, when it involves another life, this great concern about a treatable condition can seem grave enough to you to outweigh a living human being?

All sexual intercourse should be open to life, and you take upon yourself responsibility when you do something that inherently carries said responsibility. If you don’t want children, then don’t do the thing that brings forth children.

The great evil of abortion is indeed assisted by the other evil of contraception…so much so that many abortions are after failed contraception, ruining the life of the mother and child together with all the issues an abortion can bring.

It’s unable to give consent either way. For example, a 27 year old man in India sued his parents for giving birth to him.

Are you really trying to make an argument…like, bud, it’s a right. You don’t get to take the right to life, the base of all rights, away from another. If someone can’t speak, hear, or see, do you get to kill the person because you assume they don’t wanna live? No, of course not.

All this dancing around is to ignore the HARD FACT of the matter that A CHILD IN THE WOMB IS A SEPARATE, LIVING HUMAN BEING. Dependency on the mother, yes, a mere tumor or pimple? No

 

[goout]

goout:

Vonsalza:

Residue of history.

Historically, women - particularly pregnant women - were chattel.

And the answer is to kill children. Smart…
Cause like, if we kill children, and half of those are women, we have less women as chattel.

Brilliant!!

The reasoning behind it is that you liberate women from the control of anyone other than themselves. Their husbands can’t rule them, the fetus they don’t want can’t rule them.

They are their own and no one else’s.

Because we are free, Free to kill.
Freedom baby. All about it.

that’s not reasoning, it’s a naked appeal to power, miscast as concern for the welfare of women. That’s a farce.

And here’s the hypocrisy: you undermine the very women’s health you pretend at.