Issues other than abortion

[Vonsalza]

Hey man, if you wanna talk about something different, I’m all game for it. Just define it in the subject line and let’s roll.

Just in the meantime I gotta school these ideologues on women not being property anymore…

 

[Vonsalza]

Sbee0:

And to think that some far left progressives want socialism in the USA when the latter is usually the end result of it.

Empowerment of women (or lack thereof) is the biggest cause for poverty in the world. Once women are empowered, prosperity follows.

Absolutely

 

[Sbee0]

Sbee0:

And to think that some far left progressives want socialism in the USA when the latter is usually the end result of it.

Empowerment of women (or lack thereof) is the biggest cause for poverty in the world. Once women are empowered, prosperity follows.

I’d say inequality (racial, gender and so on) for sure is one big factor. So is poor education. So is political instability. Socialism is nice on paper but in reality doesn’t solve those problems.

 

[Vonsalza]

Actually, public education is the greatest vehicle for social mobility in the USA.

It’s state owned and state run. If it’s not socialist I dont know what is.

If you have a minute, let me tell you about the horrors of privatizing your military…

 

[laylow]

I’d say inequality (racial, gender and so on) for sure is one big factor. So is poor education. So is political instability. Socialism is nice on paper but in reality doesn’t solve those problems.

Pure socialism will never work, but of course, either will pure capitalism. So obviously the answer is somewhere in between. Where the line is drawn, is the subject of all the arguments and disagreements.

 

[Vonsalza]

I agree. Pure capitalism yields oligarchy. The nature of capital itself is to consolidate.

Without a vehicle that forces redistribution in some way, you get the old class systems of India and feudal Europe. We get this done with progressive taxation, taxing corporations separately and taxing estates and property- in addition to direct redistribution via Gov. Employment in administration, the military and aid programs like Medicaid Medicare and social security

 

[laylow]

I’d say inequality (racial, gender and so on) for sure is one big factor. So is poor education. So is political instability. Socialism is nice on paper but in reality doesn’t solve those problems.

Those other items seem to improve quickly once women are brought even with the pack.

 

[Sbee0]

Actually, public education is the greatest vehicle for social mobility in the USA.

It’s state owned and state run. If it’s not socialist I dont know what is.

If you have a minute, let me tell you about the horrors of privatizing your military…

The public schools are not a great illustration of the virtues of socialism. The system is broken right now. Rampant student underperformance especially in the poorest areas. And massive inequality (especially racial and financial) in education, as there are massive gaps in the quality of education received in district to district. The poorest schools are performing the poorest. That should not be so. That’s what happens when things are planned top down from bias - who gets funding, how much and so on. (top down - hey that’s what socialism is!) Hence all the conversations today about vouchers and education choice.

I don’t like the idea of a private military but having it government run shouldn’t leave the door open for socialism.

 

[Sbee0]

Sbee0:

I’d say inequality (racial, gender and so on) for sure is one big factor. So is poor education. So is political instability. Socialism is nice on paper but in reality doesn’t solve those problems.

Pure socialism will never work, but of course, either will pure capitalism. So obviously the answer is somewhere in between. Where the line is drawn, is the subject of all the arguments and disagreements.

In my opinion, too many people get capitalism mixed up with corporatism or cronyism. Pure capitalism works, and it brings out the best in all of us.

 

[laylow]

The public schools are not a great illustration of the virtues of socialism. The system is broken right now. Rampant student underperformance especially in the poorest areas. And massive inequality (especially racial and financial) in education, as there are massive gaps in the quality of education received in district to district. The poorest schools are performing the poorest. That should not be so. That’s what happens when things are planned top down from bias - who gets funding, how much and so on. (top down - hey that’s what socialism is!) Hence all the conversations today about vouchers and education choice.

I agree that the school system is pretty awful right now and in need of repair. However, privatized education has a larger divide between the haves and have-nots.

 

[laylow]

In my opinion, too many people get capitalism mixed up with corporatism or cronyism. Pure capitalism works, and it brings out the best in all of us.

Not for the disadvantaged who are unable to take part and contribute to it.

Also, it operates on the infinite growth paradigm, which fails on a finite planet.

 

[yankeesouth]

We have violence, because people have easy access to weaponry, especially guns.

I look forward to your call to control forceps, scalpels or any other tool used in the violence of abortion.

 

[Vonsalza]

Sure, I wont pretend any complex system is perfect. But privatizing education with vouchers or a similar scheme simply leave the poor kids in school that have fewer resources per kid due to wealthy kids going to the private school. This is because school overhead remains the same.

Privatizing education is essentially just tuition assistance programs for wealthier kids, furthering the classism that public education was fostered to prevent.

And on the military - it doesn’t leave the door open to socialism. It is socialism. As are your public roads, cops, ect

 

[yankeesouth]

As I stated at the top of this thread, there are many other issues out there.

Yes unfortunately now we can add infanticide to the list.

 

[YourNameHere]

Or it could be that their are some obsessive people who post on these forum threads.

 

[JimG]

Yes, there are other issues, for example safety nets. Safety nets, such as SSI, Social Security, tMedicare, and Medicaid, and others are there to help people who may be less able to take care of themselves at certain points in their lives.

Safety nets are supported by current workers. People pay into Social Security while they are working, and the taxes they pay in, go to pay current beneficiaries, who are retired. The current generation supports the older generation. In its turn, the younger generation will age and be supported by the younger generation.
For this to work, of course, there must BE a next generation. Babies grow into adults who through their tax contributions support their aging parents.

But wait a minute. This means that old folks are using the bodies of younger people to support them. What happened to bodily autonomy?

In fact, and old person in a nursing home is as dependent as a baby. He or she is using the bodies of younger people for support. What if the younger people don’t want to lose their autonomy? They don’t want to support safety nets; they would rather keep their own hard earned money?

The same principle applies. If the other person’s body is making too many demands on your own body, demand the right to terminate it. Problem solved, except that the young person exercising that right will soon be in the same position as the older person being terminated.

 

[goout]

The same principle applies. If the other person’s body is making too many demands on your own body, demand the right to terminate it. Problem solved, except that the young person exercising that right will soon be in the same position as the older person being terminated.

Yes. Illustrates the tragic blindness here.
One human life devalued devalues every other human life.
Put another way:
One person’s claim to absolute autonomy over others is a death sentence for the claimant. (metaphorically speaking of course…the powerful will survive in a perfect “clean water” world. )

 

[LiveSkype]

So, @Vonsalza, after reading your statements, I have noticed that you believe that women have the right to bodily anatomy, and that she should have access to get an abortion because:

That fetus isn’t a person in the same way and degree as its mother. And since it relies on her body to live, she gets to rule the situation.

Am I correct?

 

[goout]

Many more people in the world die of starvation or lack of clean water than abortion, so we know it’s not a numbers thing.

Do you have numbers to support this claim? In the US alone about 3500 human beings go to the gas chamber er…abortion clinic waste basket. Every single day.
I’d be curious where your numbers are coming from.

 

[MamaJewel]

Where is the right to have one’s body intact (body systems, vitamins, minerals, nutrients, etc) and free from the direct use of another human being a farce?

With pregnancy, we’re not talking going out to work at a job to support someone. We’re talking about one living being directly taking the oxygen out of the blood and calcium out of the bones of another. Not to mention the additional compensation required of maternal body systems, just so the pregnant woman can stay alive.

Who takes from who in a pregnancy? Who gives use of their body and gets nothing in return from an anatomical and physiological point of view? The pregnant woman. The fetus gets total benefit of the woman’s body to the risk of her life and health.

So I want to ask you again, what person has the right to demand the use of another person’s body for his/her own direct benefit?

My argument is not a farce.