Issues other than abortion

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LiveSkype said:
But it seems like I’m being ignored here, as I would have liked these posts to bring about more dialogue about these topics on this very forum thread.
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But if you title the thread “Issues other than abortion”, what do you expect? If you had titled the thread, “Issues other than climate change”, or “Issues other than gun control”, or “Issues other than (insert issue people feel passionately about here)”, then what do you expect? People will discuss the issue in the title, because you have raised it.

If you want to debate a particular issue then perhaps start a thread specifically about that issue.
 
I can still request it to be closed by one who is an admin, Can’t I?
 
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I don’t think so. Once threads are created, they stay there, I believe. The originator of the thread has no more ‘ownership’ of the thread than anyone else who posts on it, as far as I understand.
 
goout said:
You went beyond that. You listed the adverse health consequences of nurturing a child, without thinking of the child ! As if the child is soul-less tumor.

You propose the nurturing of a new life as inherently threatening to the life and well being of a woman, in graphic and excessive detail. Your words. That’s what diseases are, that’s what aggressors do
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That’s what diseases are, that’s what aggressors do. In your words!

No, pregnancy isn’t a disease, it’s a natural process.
Yes, pregnancy is very aggressive (the goal of differentiation is to get a new human being through its early developmental stages and birthed into the world, even if it kills the person who maintained it). From a physiological standpoint, pregnancy can be quite adversarial to the woman’s health. Placentas don’t like to take ‘no’ for an answer.

Don’t like my words, huh? To harsh? Truth hits hard, doesn’t it?

What I described in those words that you highlighted in bold, I hate to tell you this, but I personally lived those experiences, or came so close to having two of those pregnancy-related morbidities that I had exploratory surgery to determine what was happening with my body.

Please don’t minimize my lived pregnancy and post-partum experiences and my current past-pregnancy related health issues. They are what I went through to bring forth unique human beings.

I’m lucky to be alive. Or as some of my pregnancy providers used to say when things came up, “We dodged a bullet!” Funny, but I don’t recall seeing any guns.

That’s why I am pro-choice.
I can’t force a woman to go through a pregnancy, and take those risks, against her will. It’s just too much to ask another human to do.
I don’t have to drive her an abortion clinic and I don’t have to pay for her abortion. But if she meets with her licensed provider, and chooses to terminate the pregnancy, that is her choice.
 
MamaJewel said:
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goout:
You went beyond that. You listed the adverse health consequences of nurturing a child, without thinking of the child ! As if the child is soul-less tumor.

You propose the nurturing of a new life as inherently threatening to the life and well being of a woman, in graphic and excessive detail. Your words. That’s what diseases are, that’s what aggressors do
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That’s what diseases are, that’s what aggressors do. In your words!
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Um, no. Those were your words. Go back and read.
If you can’t even own your own words, we are not going to have a discussion.
You are not fooling anyone.
 
goout said:
What happens to your absolute bodily autonomy claim when someone else claims you have none ?
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Well, when I was a practicing Catholic, I was told that I didn’t have the right of autonomy to my body because of the natural moral law and being a child of God. It nearly cost me my life on a few occasions.

At certain times, under natural moral law, I had to choose to stay in circumstances that were adverse to my health and increased my risk for death.

To this day, because of past pregnancies, I still have serious detrimental consequences to my health/life. I will need more surgery in my future for morbidities resulting from past-pregnancies.

I’ll say it again, I’m lucky to be alive.
 
I did go back and read.
Show me where I wrote those words that you are accusing me of writing.

Those were your own words, based on the conclusion you came to regarding my post. Your words in response to me. You came to that conclusion and tried to accused me of writing it.

goout

1

8h
GoOut: Can you move from making an founded claim, to giving good reason why your right to absolute bodily autonomy is inseparable from your right to life?
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MamaJewel: Where did I claim that childbirth is a disease?
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GoOut: Right here:
MamaJewel: there is another living being within my body hiding under the radar of my immune system , literally using my oxygen, calcium, iron, etc. as well as burdening my bodily systems to the extent that if those systems can’t/don’t compensate, I die!

MamaJewel: Pregnancy may be natural, but it’s very dangerous, and often debilitating or deadly for women. For example, it’s quite natural for women to develop obstetrical fistulas, uterine prolapse, or rectal prolapse as a result of vaginal childbirth . Hey, just walk around leaking urine or feces out of your girl bits . No problem, it’s natural because you gave birth!
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MamaJewel: I stated matter of fact that pregnancy is a natural process that is dangerous, often debilitating, or deadly for women.
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In your words, GoOut: You went beyond that. You listed the adverse health consequences of nurturing a child, without thinking of the child ! As if the child is soul-less tumor.

You propose the nurturing of a new life as inherently threatening to the life and well being of a woman, in graphic and excessive detail. Your words. That’s what diseases are, that’s what aggressors do. Are you backing away from the claim that an unborn child is an inherent threat to the life of a mother? ( I hope so)

No where in my post did I say that pregnancy was a disease.
I do stand firm that pregnancy is aggressive. Pregnancy is a very aggressive, natural process.

I did not state that new life is a disease and an aggressor. You came to that conclusion on your own reading into what I wrote. Sorry if you can’t deal with the truth of pregnancy.

Oh, and btw, a pregnant woman doesn’t even have to have an embryo/fetus present to be pregnant! So not all pregnancies = new human being.

I guess you just learned that a natural human process can be dangerous, debilitating, or deadly without being deemed a disease. And tell me, if pregnancy is natural, and still like a disease and an aggressor, as you pointed out in your response, is it fair to consider pregnancy an aggressive process?

Your arguments are circular.
You’re fooling no one.
 
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Who’re you to decide what’s too high for any woman?

Some risks from pregnancy approach 100%.
Some risks are less than 1%.

You don’t get to be in the drivers seat for anyone’s body besides your own
 
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Other methods besides abortion could be considered first depending on the particular problem and small risks are a bad justification.

I’m still waiting for your justification to kill animals in order for you to survive.

Also how many abortions are because of medical reasons?
 
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VanitasVanitatum said:
Other methods besides abortion could be considered first depending on the particular problem and small risks are a bad justification.

I’m still waiting for your justification to kill animals in order for you to survive.

Also how many abortions are because of medical reasons?
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A very tiny minority it seems.

Florida stats 2017: http://ahca.myflorida.com/MCHQ/Central_Services/Training_Support/docs/TrimesterByReason_2018.pdf

Mostly elective. Only 1% identified a health condition.

And from a prochoice advocacy group.


Only 4% identified their own health as a reason they had the abortion.

The most common reasons overwhelmingly are related to expedience. To me this tells me way too many women are not informed very well of the true choices they have when they are pregnant and the abortion industry in this country wants to keep it that way.
 
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To me, it looks like you might have possibly had some sort of undiagnosed condition that was triggered by such an act by reading what you just wrote. I am really sorry for all of the misinformation you were given beforehand, as this could have made you afraid to get medical treatment, which could have prevented this from getting worse.

Suffering was not something God wanted, yet He still gave us free will.
Free will didn’t stop Adam and Eve from committing Original Sin.
Yet that same free will is what brought Jesus, His only begotten Son, to earth.
He wasn’t being sour while He was sweating in Gethsemane.
He didn’t complain while He carried His Cross through Calvary.
He knew it had to happen in order for the salvation of humanity.
He knew that not all would repent of the evil that they have done.
It didn’t stop Him for forgiving His accusers in advance.
And it doesn’t justify the cruel deeds done in His name.

That’s all I can say at this point.
 
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Sbee0 said:
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VanitasVanitatum:
Other methods besides abortion could be considered first depending on the particular problem and small risks are a bad justification.

I’m still waiting for your justification to kill animals in order for you to survive.

Also how many abortions are because of medical reasons?
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A very tiny minority it seems.

Florida stats 2017: http://ahca.myflorida.com/MCHQ/Central_Services/Training_Support/docs/TrimesterByReason_2018.pdf

Mostly elective. Only 1% identified a health condition.

And from a prochoice advocacy group.
https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/tables/370305/3711005t3.pdf

Only 4% identified their own health as a reason they had the abortion.

The most common reasons overwhelmingly are related to expedience. To me this tells me way too many women are not informed very well of the true choices they have when they are pregnant and the abortion industry in this country wants to keep it that way.
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Our sidewalk counselors are trained to offer the assistance that is available. And there is a lot of it. The abortion facilities and their “helpers” are trained to yell over top of that. We had a woman in December who listened to a counselor, and ended up cancelling the abortion. We adopted this woman and her child through Catholic Charities and helped with money (on our end it was money, in her neighborhood they helped her with practical necessities).

There are some children being saved from the despair of abortion thankfully.
 
I think you’re just upset because you’re a Democrat, and your party is only getting more and more extreme on abortion, so you don’t want people talking about it.
 
No, I am an independent. But what I see is a lot of people who vote Republican solely based on abortion.
When it comes to things that truly help working class or middle class Americans, the Republicans are against those things, including a higher minimum wage, affordable health care, more vacation time, medicare expansion, and increases for social security.
I am opposed to abortion, but I cannot vote for candidates based solely on one issue.
As bad as Democrats are on abortion, the Republicans are bad on most everything else.
The leader of the Republican Party has cheated on his wife, more than once, and spews hate with each and every tweet he makes. Donald Trump makes Bill Clinton look like a saint, by comparison. And Clinton was not a saint during his presidency.
 
Wow. “The murder of millions of innocent human beings per year, an abomination to humanity, is just not enough to sway my vote, I’m thinking of minimum wage and other things.”
Ugh.
 
So you applaud our current President. The things he says and the things he does?
 
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