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estesbob
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Both the leaders you mention and the pro-abortion canidate support mass murder-I couldnt vote for any of them.
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Lypher
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Me too…ME TOO…
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donna_jean
Guest
Many thanks for this question and giving feedback to the posts. It has been a blessing and truly made my confidence increase after being bashed by some in the congregation I belong for not voting for a candidate they feel is better suited to be pro-life in the last election.
After having this dialog and reading the posts, I am better able to see that my choices were in complete teaching of the church and how to proceed to defend my position from an area of strength. When being attacked, it is often difficult for me to defend even if I know in my heart, I have done good.
For those of you on this post that continually fight for the best candidate for pro-life; it is a great cause. What is even more exciting, is the ability to be able to start planning how to put PRO-LIFE changes into law. It is my hope that some of the people that talk so strongly will take some action. No need for comments on the inability to do so because of this or that…there is always an ability…FOR THERE IS GOD.
The action that I have seen from the destruction of the fight for who is the right candidate is the separations in our churches. I have seen many leave the church because of the strong words of others: the best candidate for pro-life, or words of the horrific sin of abortion (perhaps these words are heard from someone who just had the courage to ask for forgiveness and rejoin the church)… This is sinful and sad. Although this is not a death on the same levels of abortion, it is a death of someone’s faith life, AND RIGHTLY WITHIN THE WORDS OF OUR CATECHISM, A SIN. Be careful… please.
Praying outside of abortion clinics may not be “walking the talk”, praying within a small group and then taking actions sounds like a more Godly way to me…
May God bless you all
After having this dialog and reading the posts, I am better able to see that my choices were in complete teaching of the church and how to proceed to defend my position from an area of strength. When being attacked, it is often difficult for me to defend even if I know in my heart, I have done good.
For those of you on this post that continually fight for the best candidate for pro-life; it is a great cause. What is even more exciting, is the ability to be able to start planning how to put PRO-LIFE changes into law. It is my hope that some of the people that talk so strongly will take some action. No need for comments on the inability to do so because of this or that…there is always an ability…FOR THERE IS GOD.
The action that I have seen from the destruction of the fight for who is the right candidate is the separations in our churches. I have seen many leave the church because of the strong words of others: the best candidate for pro-life, or words of the horrific sin of abortion (perhaps these words are heard from someone who just had the courage to ask for forgiveness and rejoin the church)… This is sinful and sad. Although this is not a death on the same levels of abortion, it is a death of someone’s faith life, AND RIGHTLY WITHIN THE WORDS OF OUR CATECHISM, A SIN. Be careful… please.
Praying outside of abortion clinics may not be “walking the talk”, praying within a small group and then taking actions sounds like a more Godly way to me…
May God bless you all
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Garland
Guest
Being truly Catholic is to minister to CHRIST in every person, unborn included, we have contact with. Through prayer we can be in contact with every person that ever existed or that will ever exist, unborn included. Mother Teresa of calcutta never ministered to any one other than JESUS. She saw him in the poorest of the poor and every where she was, there he was. When we enter the voteing booth we must vote the prolife ticket, or we fail JESUS and the child that dies in the money driven abortion mills that are every where in this" home of the free and the brave". To be truly free and certainly brave, forget political parties and first last and always listen to Holy Mother Church, and vote your CHRISTIAN point of view.
If we realy trust and obey, it will be JESUS placing the X by the candidate for political office. I know he is PROLIFE. Blessings. Garland
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Back in the mtns. of eastern Ky. we sang a hymn called Trust and obey. The words are relevant to LIFE now and always.
Trust and obey
for theres no other way
to be happy in JESUS
but to trust and obey
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CPA2
Guest
Read your bibles. I try to recognize the signs of the times by reading my bible every day. I also read Our Lady’s messages every day. It is where I get “my take” on everything that I hear or read. It is how I form my Christian view on every issue.
We are to renounce disobedience to God and sin. God leads us to freedom, not oppression. God also leads us to joy, not sadness.
“Courage, little children! I decided to lead you on the way to holiness. Renounce sin and set out on the way of salvation, the way which my Son has chosen. Through each of your tribulations and sufferings God will find the way of joy for you…(Mary – March 25, 2006).”
We are to renounce disobedience to God and sin. God leads us to freedom, not oppression. God also leads us to joy, not sadness.
“Courage, little children! I decided to lead you on the way to holiness. Renounce sin and set out on the way of salvation, the way which my Son has chosen. Through each of your tribulations and sufferings God will find the way of joy for you…(Mary – March 25, 2006).”
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CWBetts
Guest
No one is required to accept apparitions
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Lypher
Guest
You are so rght…angry militant actions at Church is not acceptable. Having people come to Church is half the battle for Catechesis to start working. The slow loving care and calm conscience formation of a loving community will do more to change hearts then hateful words… The goal is a life devoted to life, not one election cycle.:heaven:
God Bless you…
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Rence
Guest
Of course Catholics have as much right to influence law as any other individual, that’s what my post was all about. Catholics OF COURSE should work to influence law - as they believe will make an impact on what courses of actions will make a difference in our country, without being coerced by the Church. The Church needs to dictate in the Vatican. Here in the U.S., the Vatican should not be dictating and coercing citicizens on how to vote for whom to vote anymore than Italy, German or England should be dictating to our citizens. If a citizen wants to lobby, it should be their choice, for the issue that makes a difference for them.
If a citizen, who happens to be Catholic, wants to lobby for a certain issue, they SHOULD, no matter what that issue is. The problem is when that Cathlolic American dictates to other Americans that they must join them because the Vatican says so. That’s a breach of that other American’s rights. They have the right to lobby for issues of concern to them as well - without coercison.
Yeah, like that
But I’ve already talked to my priest about it, and I’m pretty comfortable with my choices. IMOHO it’s a waste of time to beat dead horses when you can make a difference in other areas.
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Lypher
Guest
I believe that Green Peace is a global organization. So is Doctors without borders. I find absolutely no reason why the Catholic Church cannot call its members to vote according to its agenda any differently then any of these other Non-Profit Groups?
I believe if you are a member of PETA and you are eating steak while wearing a baby seal coat that organization might revoke your membership. The Catholic Church should be able to revoke the membership of any “Catholic” politician that cause the death of the unborn by using his vote. I don’t think PETA would allow a senator that constantly participated in the seal hunt to be a member. What is really sad is that most Americans can understand that logic, but when applied to Roman Catholics to follow the rules of the Club…Oh no…cant mix abortion with politics. I guess I will never understand that perspective. Can you explain why the lefts Non Profit NGO’s can lobby morals but the RCC is not allowed?
Maybe horses don’t matter but other life issues that Ms. Pelosi votes on need to be addressed.Yeah, like that
God Bless you…
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Rence
Guest
Some of the members of this forum are saying that one is excommunicated if they don’t vote for the politician that the Church tells one to. My priest says that’s false. My priest says that one has the right to choose the candidate they believe is best for the job, and that the Church suggests/recommends Catholics vote for a prolife candidate, but allows Catholics to use their conscience when voting. This is a big difference.I believe that Green Peace is a global organization. So is Doctors without borders. I find absolutely no reason why the Catholic Church cannot call its members to vote according to its agenda any differently then any of these other Non-Profit Groups?
Green Peace and Doctors without Borders don’t coerce people into voting for the candidates of their choice. And even if they tried to do so, they couldn’t “excommunicate” people who don’t vote the way GP and DwB tells them to vote.
PETA is a bogus association with off-the-deep-end supporters who eventually drop them when they realize how over-the-top PETA is. Though I understand your analogy, you have to admit that being expelled from PETA won’t be skin off too many people’s nose. There is no comparison between PETA and the Church.I believe if you are a member of PETA and you are eating steak while wearing a baby seal coat that organization might revoke your membership. The Catholic Church should be able to revoke the membership of any “Catholic” politician that cause the death of the unborn by using his vote. I don’t think PETA would allow a senator that constantly participated in the seal hunt to be a member. What is really sad is that most Americans can understand that logic, but when applied to Roman Catholics to follow the rules of the Club…Oh no…cant mix abortion with politics. I guess I will never understand that perspective. Can you explain why the lefts Non Profit NGO’s can lobby morals but the RCC is not allowed?
Remember that Ms. Pelosi met with the Pope himself and is still in good standing with the Church. Her status as a Catholic is really between her and the Pope, and even her Bishop. Also consider, she represents all Americans, which comprise many different religions and creeds, not just Catholics. By voting with Catholic rules and regulations as her sole guide, she will be betraying the rest of the U.S. population for whom she is responsible for representing. I understand your disappointment in Ms. Pelosi, but she represents everyone, not just Catholics…
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Lypher
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CPA2
Guest
www.priestsforlife.org/ Read what the “Priests for Life” have to say.
The “Priests for Life” never tell you WHO to vote for. However, they are well within Divine law and Natural law when they tell you the moral implications of voting. Abortion is about murder and justice. You promote the violence of abortion when you vote for someone who supports abortion.
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CWBetts
Guest
Any politician who votes supports an intrinsic moral evil, yet claims to be Catholic, has a severe problem. They are letting the issues of the temporal (getting re-elected) override the issues of the eternal. “What does ift profit a man if he gains the world but loses his own soul?” I think I read that somewhere.
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CPA2
Guest
Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, stated: “Regarding the **grave sin of abortion **or euthanasia, when a person’s formal cooperation becomes manifest (understood, in the case of a **Catholic politician, as his consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion **and euthanasia laws), his Pastor should meet with him, instructing him about the Church’s teaching, informing him that he is not to present himself for Holy Communion until he brings to an end the objective situation of sin, and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist.”
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Lypher
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Rence
Guest
Cool. I’m glad they would never tell me who to vote for. All I want is the freedom to excercise my right to vote without coersion and I don’t think that’s too much to ask
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CWBetts
Guest
And I don’t think it is too much to ask to be given the freedom to say that voting for someone who supports evil is actually in a very real way participating in that evil.Cool. I’m glad they would never tell me who to vote for. All I want is the freedom to excercise my right to vote without coersion and I don’t think that’s too much to ask
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Rence
Guest
I think you have the freedom to say whatever you like?
But so do I, and this is what I say: the abortion issue is way too complex an issue to say it’s going to just go away by voting for a pro-life candidate. It’s naive to think that making it illegal is going to solve all the problems of abortion. On the contrary, it’s going to worsen the situation. Also, when you take into account that pro-lifers don’t want to stop with abortion, but want to also outlaw birth control, it makes even less sense to think the problem of abortion will be resolved by voting for a candidate that is pro-life. Therefore, why should I waste my vote on a pro-life candidate that I believe won’t be good for the country when looking at the whole picture?
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Lypher
Guest
Because God does not want you to kill the unborn…
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CPA2
Guest
It was not my purpose in starting this thread to talk about my beliefs concerning life and abortion. Arguments about our beliefs can easily get very abstract. I would hope that you have the right beliefs. However, it does not matter if you are pro-life or not. **Abortion is about bloodshed and victims. ** Over 4,000 babies are being killed every day, and we are not doing anything about it. Babies in the womb should be protected. **The failure to protect life is a betrayal of human decency. **I think you have the freedom to say whatever you like?
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