It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

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A new film has been made about the abortion industry
BLOOD MONEY
PLEASE HELP PROMOTE IT BY FORWARDING TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS!

Dear friends :
The following link is to a new independent film which needs our support to
expose the corruption of Planned Parenthood. The movie is called Blood Money
and in order for the producers to get it into the theaters they need to show
that millions of interested people have visited their website. You need only
visit the website; there is no need to sign-up as a supporter unless you are
compelled to do so. The second link is the trailer for the movie. PLEASE
HELP GET THIS IMPORTANT FILM INTO THEATERS BY VISITING THE WEBSITE, then
forward this to your family and friends! Americans NEED to see this…

**bloodmoneyfilm.com/ **

God bless you!
 
Rence said:
I think you’re right about that: I agree that when a valid pro-life candidate is an option, that you should vote for the valid pro-life candidate. However, valid doesnt’ just mean a true pro-lifer, because we’re also voting for a valid leader of this country. So have a valid leader who shows promise in leading the country who is pro-life and I’m sure many pro-lifers and pro-choicers would vote for that person.

It’s unacceptable to tell someone that they have to vote for Palin because she is pro-life. If one believe that woman would destroy the country, one is not going to vote for her no matter how she feels about abortion. I can’t even take someone seriously who makes the claim that I must vote for Palin if the other candidate is pro-choice, when that candidate shows that he would be better than Palin.

So, vote with your conscience, whichever way you vote. That’s the only thing we can do.
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Actually the only thing we can do is follow the teachings of the Church. its really not that complicated in this area. You dont have to vote for anyone-pro-life or not. You cant vote for someone who is pro-abortion UNLESS their opponent is more pro-abotion than they are.
 
estesbob said:
Actually the only thing we can do is follow the teachings of the Church. its really not that complicated in this area. You dont have to vote for anyone-pro-life or not. You cant vote for someone who is pro-abortion UNLESS their opponent is more pro-abotion than they are.
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I don’t find it anymore complicated than you do. It’s very simple actually. I just have a differing opinion and vote differently than you do. Thankfully, we have the right and the freedom to do so 🙂
 
Rence said:
I don’t find it anymore complicated than you do. It’s very simple actually. I just have a differing opinion and vote differently than you do. Thankfully, we have the right and the freedom to do so 🙂
Click to expand...
The Legal right? Yes. The Moral right. no-as Our Church makes very clear. For instance I have the legal right to sleep with my neighbors wife(if she is willing) I dont have the moral right. Were your spouse to have an affair would you just dismiss is as “he has that right”?

The problem with this debate (and not just in this thread) is that those of us who are explaining the Church’s position quote Bishops Cardinals, the Cathecism, Papal Documents etc to show what the Church teaches. What we get in return is “My Priest told me it was OK” or “I have to follow my conscinece”
 
estesbob said:
The Legal right? Yes. The Moral right. no-as Our Church makes very clear. For instance I have the legal right to sleep with my neighbors wife(if she is willing) I dont have the moral right. Were your spouse to have an affair would you just dismiss is as “he has that right”?
Click to expand...
The so-called moral imperative to refrain from voting for a pro-choice politician whenever there is a pro-life politician running is just as “clear” as a Commandment blasted into Moses’ tablet directly from God himself? What color is the sky in your world, Bob?
estesbob said:
The problem with this debate (and not just in this thread) is that those of us who are explaining the Church’s position quote Bishops Cardinals, the Cathecism, Papal Documents etc to show what the Church teaches. What we get in return is “My Priest told me it was OK” or “I have to follow my conscinece”
Click to expand...
I hope your house has fire insurance with all those straw men you seem to have lying about.

I’ve read the Catechism and all papal documents cited herein, and have yet to find a single expression to the effect that there exists no such thing as a “proportionate reason” to vote for a pro-choice politician whenever a pro-life politician is running. If it were so “clear”, it wouldn’t be that hard for the Magesterium to simply come out and say it, would it?

What I have seen is one bishop saying that he personally can think of no reason. Sorry, but that’s not the same as saying that somebody else couldn’t think of some reason. And it’s not Magesterium. And it’s not my Bishop.

What we have here is a burden of proof problem. You (et alia seem to think that it’s my burden to justify my vote to you in any given election. It’s not. It’s your burden to show me how, for a specific election, voting for one politician over another would be a “sin”. But you can’t because the “proportionate reason” test is subjective, not objective. That is, it doesn’t matter if you don’t think that workers’ rights, caring for the poor, stewardship of the earth, world peace, energy conservation, public transportation, fairer marginal rate tax system, and a host of other things are “proportional”.

It’s also up to me (not you) to weigh each candidate’s credibility and likelihood of effecting policy on any of the relevant issues, and choose accordingly.

I don’t care, my bishop doesn’t care, and God doesn’t care what you happen to think of the decision procedure that goes into my voting when I go into that booth.

When I vote, I’ll proportionately weigh all the reasons for and against each candidate. After having done so, I’ll cast my vote, and I’ll do so with a clear conscience, even if the one I voted for happens to be a Democrat.

And if you don’t like it, you’re just simply going to have to continue to not like it. But your personal feelings and your “interpretation” of Church teaching, (way) over and (far) above the substance of those teachings, are not Magesterium.

Nobody, short of the Pope himself, has the authority to come on this board and attempt to scare people into voting Republican. Full stop. Fin d’histoire.

Pic related. It’s a dead horse – who wants to take the next whack?
http://evilnature.com/w_deadhorse.jpg
 
Nyarlathotep said:
The so-called moral imperative to refrain from voting for a pro-choice politician whenever there is a pro-life politician running is just as “clear” as a Commandment blasted into Moses’ tablet directly from God himself? What color is the sky in your world, Bob?

I hope your house has fire insurance with all those straw men you seem to have lying about.

I’ve read the Catechism and all papal documents cited herein, and have yet to find a single expression to the effect that there exists no such thing as a “proportionate reason” to vote for a pro-choice politician whenever a pro-life politician is running. If it were so “clear”, it wouldn’t be that hard for the Magesterium to simply come out and say it, would it?

What I have seen is one bishop saying that he personally can think of no reason. Sorry, but that’s not the same as saying that somebody else couldn’t think of some reason. And it’s not Magesterium. And it’s not my Bishop.

What we have here is a burden of proof problem. You (et alia seem to think that it’s my burden to justify my vote to you in any given election. It’s not. It’s your burden to show me how, for a specific election, voting for one politician over another would be a “sin”. But you can’t because the “proportionate reason” test is subjective, not objective. That is, it doesn’t matter if you don’t think that workers’ rights, caring for the poor, stewardship of the earth, world peace, energy conservation, public transportation, fairer marginal rate tax system, and a host of other things are “proportional”.

It’s also up to me (not you) to weigh each candidate’s credibility and likelihood of effecting policy on any of the relevant issues, and choose accordingly.

I don’t care, my bishop doesn’t care, and God doesn’t care what you happen to think of the decision procedure that goes into my voting when I go into that booth.

When I vote, I’ll proportionately weigh all the reasons for and against each candidate. After having done so, I’ll cast my vote, and I’ll do so with a clear conscience, even if the one I voted for happens to be a Democrat.

And if you don’t like it, you’re just simply going to have to continue to not like it. But your personal feelings and your “interpretation” of Church teaching, (way) over and (far) above the substance of those teachings, are not Magesterium.

Nobody, short of the Pope himself, has the authority to come on this board and attempt to scare people into voting Republican. Full stop. Fin d’histoire.

Pic related. It’s a dead horse – who wants to take the next whack?
http://evilnature.com/w_deadhorse.jpg
Click to expand...
Estes Bob is Pro-Life, Rence is Pro-Death… unless I misread it???😊
 
Lypher said:
Estes Bob is Pro-Life, Rence is Pro-Death… unless I misread it???😊
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Yes, but that’s not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is not whether abortion should be further criminalized; the topic is whether one may vote for a pro-abortion politician in spite of (not because of) his pro-choice position if there are “proportionate reasons” for doing so.

From what I can gather Rence considers himself “pro-choice” in the sense that the government should not prohibit abortion; abortion being a moral, not legal matter. This would be the “libertarian” position, I would imagine.

Personally, I happen to disagree. I, like Estesbob, am pro-life, and favor the criminalization of abortion. If it ever came up for a referendum, I would vote pro-life. If I ever held political office, I would vote pro-life. All things being equal, the Church commands me to vote for the pro-life politician. Even all things being somewhat unequal, the abortion issue may still carry the day. But all things are very rarely equal, or even only somewhat unequal. Sometimes the pro-choice guy really is better than the pro-life guy.

And nobody with any Magesterial authority has ever said differently. So, take another whack at the horse if you want, but I don’t see where this is going, unless we go into hypothetical-election thought-experiments which, aside from turning the Lord of the Universe into a bean-counting utilitarian, cannot possibly hope to capture the complex variables inherent therein.

So, this thread has not only derailed, it has rolled down the mountain, dashed against the rocks, exploded into a fiery inferno, sank into the river, been salvaged, crushed, recycled, and made into cans, which have themselves been recycled.
 
estesbob said:
The Legal right? Yes. The Moral right. no-as Our Church makes very clear. For instance I have the legal right to sleep with my neighbors wife(if she is willing) I dont have the moral right. Were your spouse to have an affair would you just dismiss is as “he has that right”?

The problem with this debate (and not just in this thread) is that those of us who are explaining the Church’s position quote Bishops Cardinals, the Cathecism, Papal Documents etc to show what the Church teaches. What we get in return is “My Priest told me it was OK” or “I have to follow my conscinece”
Click to expand...
👍
 
CPA2 said:
A new film has been made about the abortion industry
BLOOD MONEY
PLEASE HELP PROMOTE IT BY FORWARDING TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS!

Dear friends :
The following link is to a new independent film which needs our support to
expose the corruption of Planned Parenthood. The movie is called Blood Money
and in order for the producers to get it into the theaters they need to show
that millions of interested people have visited their website. You need only
visit the website; there is no need to sign-up as a supporter unless you are
compelled to do so. The second link is the trailer for the movie. PLEASE
HELP GET THIS IMPORTANT FILM INTO THEATERS BY VISITING THE WEBSITE, then
forward this to your family and friends! Americans NEED to see this…

bloodmoneyfilm.com/

God bless you!
Click to expand...
What a great Trailer… I signed up and have passed the information on to my family. this movie lists Father Frank Pavone as a contributor.👍
 
The title of this thread is correct. It is a SIN to vote for pro-abortion candidates. nuff said Blessings Garland
 
Rence said:
I don’t find it anymore complicated than you do. It’s very simple actually. I just have a differing opinion and vote differently than you do. Thankfully, we have the right and the freedom to do so 🙂
Click to expand...
I agree. Not complicated. Very simple: My vote, not the vote of those with a compulsion to control others – whether located on CAF or located elsewhere. The political right, the political and moral freedom.
🙂
 
Elizabeth502 said:
I agree. Not complicated. Very simple: My vote, not the vote of those with a compulsion to control others – whether located on CAF or located elsewhere. The political right, the political and moral freedom.
🙂
Click to expand...
So posting Catholic Teaching on a Catholic Forum is “compulsion to control others” No one in this thread disputes your right to vote for anyone you please. If, however, you vote for a po-aborton canidate do not try and mislead other catholics in believeing such a vote can be in any way reconciled with the teachings of the Church. Faith should trump politics everytime. All rghts are derived from the right to life. One who wants to grant rights only to those lucky enough to escape the womb is offering nothing but death and misery-no matter how much one may like their helth care, immigtation, nantional security propoasals, etc.
 
My conscience is clear, and my posts speak for themselves. I’m not misleading anyone. Are you?
 
estesbob said:
So posting Catholic Teaching on a Catholic Forum is “compulsion to control others” No one in this thread disputes your right to vote for anyone you please. If, however, you vote for a po-aborton canidate do not try and mislead other catholics in believeing such a vote can be in any way reconciled with the teachings of the Church. Faith should trump politics everytime. All rghts are derived from the right to life. One who wants to grant rights only to those lucky enough to escape the womb is offering nothing but death and misery-no matter how much one may like their helth care, immigtation, nantional security propoasals, etc.
Click to expand...
👍👍👍👍
 
Elizabeth502 said:
I agree. Not complicated. Very simple: My vote, not the vote of those with a compulsion to control others – whether located on CAF or located elsewhere. The political right, the political and moral freedom.
🙂
Click to expand...
The “compulsion to control others” bit is a red herring. Even the most libertine agree that there are certain things that a government has a legitimate right to stop, and murder is number 1 on the list.

Abortion = Murder

Voting for a pro-abortion candidate is no different than voting for someone who would decriminalize murder.
 
Major_Tom said:
If the Church were to officially take and announce this policy, I wonder if it’s tax-exempt status should be reconsidered.
Click to expand...
This isn’t about politics, it IS about protecting the unborn lives - and I believe the Church has taken a stand on abortion!
 
I’m just wondering why the poster of post #110 believes there’s some kind of connection between my post which he boxed, and the provocative photo underneath it. Because if he/she believes there’s a connection, it eludes me and serves no useful purpose in being mysterious.

If you have something to say, say it. Otherwise, it’s not helpful to waste cyberspace.
 
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