It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[CPA2]

“Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize. There is no obligation in conscience to obey such laws; instead **there is a grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection (**Pope John Paul II).”

 

[CPA2]

I think now, looking back at the last few posts, its easy to see why this question was asked. So many Catholics seem to want nothing more than someone to validate and justify their vote for pro-death candidates. The last election couldn’t be more simple:

Candidate A (Obama): pro-death candidate

Candidate B (McCain): pro-life candidate

Because so many “pro-life” catholics voted for Obama, we now are looking at 2 new pro-death supreme court justices (first Sotomayer, then the successor to Stevens). We could have had two pro-life justices. But pro-Obama catholics prevailed. And the killing goes on. And on.

Ishii

I agree. Too many Catholics voted with their pocketbook instead of their Catholic beliefs.

 

[CPA2]

Well I don’t know about the states but where I live there wouldn’t b many candidates who would be anti-abortion, so it would amount to dictating whom you would vote for.
I disagree. If someone was anti-abortion but had immoral policies in everything else, I would most certainly not vote for them.

From a moral perspective not all issues are qualitatively equal. Some values carry more weight than others. Some values are more fundamental than others. There is justification for placing more emphasis on some issues than other issues, and there is justification for placing more emphasis on some issues at certain times.

Abortion is the preeminent threat to human life! There is no moral issue that is greater than abortion.

 

[CPA2]

There is another aspect of Roe vs. Wade that we did not discuss: the power of government to tell us who is and who is not a person. When some of you say that the government should not be involved in the abortion decision, I agree. However, I agree from a different perspective. The government got too involved in 1973 when it said that an unborn child is not a person. The world has been down this slippery slope of “non-persons” before.

Could the government ever declare us to be “non-persons?” That idea is not so far fetched as it sounds. I do not think that we have considered the full implication of Roe vs. Wade.

 

[sedonaman]

There is another aspect of Roe vs. Wade that we did not discuss: …

How about this one:
Many women, and many men as well, strongly believe that no one and no government should have the power to dictate how a woman treats her own body. Yet we have just passed legislation which absolutely places government right in the middle of the doctor-patient relationship for every woman, man, and child in America. How can we leave the abortion decision in the hands of every woman while passing legislation which takes that same right away from every woman, man, and child for every aspect of health care, including abortions?

 

[sedonaman]

From a moral perspective not all issues are qualitatively equal. Some values carry more weight than others. Some values are more fundamental than others. There is justification for placing more emphasis on some issues than other issues, and there is justification for placing more emphasis on some issues at certain times.
…

A good example of this is the quartering of troops being an important issue with the 13 colonies, hence the Third Amendment. It is not an issue today.

 

[kage_ar]

Spend time here, and follow what our Bishops instruct us. Ignore what heretical cafeterial Catholics tell you.

faithfulcitizenship.org/

 

[Doc_Keele]

Spend time here, and follow what our Bishops instruct us. Ignore what heretical cafeterial Catholics tell you

Better listen to the official indoctrination officer
Kage_ar, you’d have been perfectly at home in Stalinist Russia

 

[sedonaman]

Better listen to the official indoctrination officer
Kage_ar, you’d have been perfectly at home in Stalinist Russia

Here’s an idea: close all the schools and let everyone think for himself to find his own truth. To hell with Aristotle, Aquinas, Hobbes, Locke, Jefferson, Adams, Lincoln, etc. Just think of all the money we’d save. It would solve the health care “crisis” too, since everyone would “think for himself” and treat his own illnesses. No point in being “indoctrinated” by all those greedy doctors, either.

 

[CPA2]

My pastor is not pro-choice, he is anti-abortion. My pastor said it was not a sin to vote for your preferred candidate regardless of who else is running with that candidate, provided you are not voting with the intention of voting specifically for a pro-choice candidate. He explained that if you believe the candidate you choose is best for the country, and that candidate is pro-choice, you are not sinning by voting for him, and I not only believe his counsel is correct, I agree with it. The Church should not be telling citizens of a country how to vote. Give to Caesar what’s Caesar’s, give to God what’s God’s. When voting there are many considerations besides abortion, and they’re all important issues. And frankly, they are more important than abortions to me. People are going to have abortions, whether or not I agree with them. And they’re going to continue having them regardless of the President’s preferences. Therefore, why ignore all the important issues for this one issue that’s not going to matter one bit? This country has way too many non-Catholics in it to attempt to base laws on Catholic beliefs. We have a responsibilty to all here, not just the unborn.

QUOTE]

There is no issue more important than abortion. We will be brought back to reason thought chastisements. Some of the chastisements will be brought about by own hand, some by nature and some by the power of God. The power of evil will be broken!

“My children, I have come to earth for you, to open your hearts for God. My son, look around you: the world is full of sin, many of your brothers and sisters have been killed through abortion and God does not want this because they are His creatures. For these people He has reserved many punishments. (The Blessed Virgin Mary to Bacco Umberto, Oliveto Citra, Italy, August 6, 1986)”

 

[CPA2]

Better listen to the official indoctrination officer
Kage_ar, you’d have been perfectly at home in Stalinist Russia

Moral Relativism

“Modern man has become passive in the face of evil. He has so long preached a doctrine of false tolerance; has so long believed that right and wrong were only differences in a point of view, that now when evil works itself out in practice he is paralyzed to do anything against it (Sheen).”

Morality (Western Bourgeois)

In the domain of morality, is it not an accepted principle of our Western bourgeois world that there is no absolute distinction between right and wrong rooted in the eternal order of God, but that they are relative and dependent entirely upon one’s point of view? Hence when the Western world wishes to decide what is right and wrong even in certain moral matters, it takes a poll – forgetful that the majority never makes a thing right….The first poll of public opinion taken in history of Christianity was on Pilate’s front porch, and it was wrong (Sheen).”

 

[CPA2]

The Church should not be telling citizens of a country how to vote. Give to Caesar what’s Caesar’s, give to God what’s God’s. When voting there are many considerations besides abortion, and they’re all important issues. And frankly, they are more important than abortions to me. People are going to have abortions, whether or not I agree with them. And they’re going to continue having them regardless of the President’s preferences. Therefore, why ignore all the important issues for this one issue that’s not going to matter one bit? This country has way too many non-Catholics in it to attempt to base laws on Catholic beliefs. We have a responsibilty to all here, not just the unborn. .

Doesn’t abortion destroy a human life? If abortion destroys a human life, then abortion is about violence. It is about bloodshed, and it is about victims. The right to life for the unborn is absolute. We, as a nation, do not recognize those rights. The unborn are the invisible members of our society. We are called to stop the bloodshed of the most helpless members of our society. Abortion is about justice.

The law protects life, despite anyone’s theological beliefs or lack of religious beliefs. I want the protection of all human beings! The law does not care about beliefs. The law just regulates actions. Subjective religious beliefs do not determine the law, nor should it. There is such a thing as Truth with a capital “T.” However, the life of a baby should not hinge upon everyone acknowledging that truth. The freedom of choice and the freedom to be an unbeliever never give anyone the right to destroy others.

 

[csuliman]

(Information based on “Priests For Life”)

If you believe in “abortion rights,” and knowingly and willfully vote for a candidate who promises to protect those “rights,” you have committed a sin. .

This argument does not make sense in a democracy where there are only two parties and each candidate will have some policies that agree with the church and some policies that do not.

EX. Bush was pro life but he started two wars and allowed the torture of detainees. If I had a pro-choice candidate who would not fight the two wars or torture detainees, then I would surely vote for them.

 

[buffalo]

This argument does not make sense in a democracy where there are only two parties and each candidate will have some policies that agree with the church and some policies that do not.

EX. Bush was pro life but he started two wars and allowed the torture of detainees. If I had a pro-choice candidate who would not fight the two wars or torture detainees, then I would surely vote for them.

Bush saved babies and liberated 50 million.

A debate for 15 months went on in congress who then gave Bush the authority to invade and then continued to fund it. Ask your Congressmen why they voted to support it.

 

[estesbob]

This argument does not make sense in a democracy where there are only two parties and each candidate will have some policies that agree with the church and some policies that do not.

EX. Bush was pro life but he started two wars and allowed the torture of detainees. If I had a pro-choice candidate who would not fight the two wars or torture detainees, then I would surely vote for them.

Not all issues are equal . The Pope made it Crystal clear that a Catholic could, in good conscience, support the Iraq war BUT not abortion. The fact you despised Bush did not give you the right to vote for a pro-abortion canidate.

 

[csuliman]

Not all issues are equal . The Pope made it Crystal clear that a Catholic could, in good conscience, support the Iraq war BUT not abortion. The fact you despised Bush did not give you the right to vote for a pro-abortion canidate.

Well, as an Iraqi I would rather save the hundred thousand or so of my countrymen that have died, including relatives, rather than any amount of abortions.

However, I supported the Iraq war initially and have found myself asking forgiveness to God everyday for the mistake of trusting the previous administration.

 

[csuliman]

Bush saved babies and liberated 50 million.

A debate for 15 months went on in congress who then gave Bush the authority to invade and then continued to fund it. Ask your Congressmen why they voted to support it.

What is the 50 million number?

 

[buffalo]

What is the 50 million number?

Afghanistan and Iraq = roughly 50 million.

and

Bush Had Best Pro-Life Record of Any President, Say Pro-Life Groups

Something else that may interest you:

Secret History of the Iraq War

In the months leading up to March 2003, fresh from its swift and heady victory in Afghanistan, the Bush administration mobilized the United States armed forces to overthrow the government of Iraq. Eight months after the president declared an end to major combat operations, Saddam Hussein was captured in a farmhouse in Al-Dawr. And yet neither peace nor democracy has taken hold in Iraq; instead the country has plunged into terrorist insurgency and guerrilla warfare, with no end in sight. What went wrong? In The Secret History of the Iraq War, bestselling author Yossef Bodansky offers an astonishing new account of the war and its aftermath – a war that was doomed from the start, he argues, by the massive and systemic failures of the American intelligence community. Drawing back the curtain of politicized debate, Bodansky – a longtime expert and director of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare – reveals that nearly every aspect of America’s conflict with Iraq has been misunderstood, in both the court of public opinion and the White House itself. Among his revelations:

• The most authoritative account of Saddam Hussein’s support for Islamic terrorist organizations – including extensive new reporting on his active cooperation with al-Qaeda in Iraq long after the fall of Baghdad
• Extensive new information on Iraq’s major chemical and biological weapons programs – including North Korea’s role in building still-undetected secret storage facilities and Iraq’s transfer of banned materials to Syria, Iran, and Libya
• The first account of Saddam’s plan for Iraq, Syria, and Iran to join Yasser Arafat’s Palestinian forces to attack Israel, throw the region into turmoil, and upend the American campaign
• The untold story of Russia’s attempt to launch a coup against Saddam before the war – and how the CIA thwarted it by ensuring that Iraq was forewarned
• Dramatic details about Saddam’s final days on the run, including the untold story of a near miss with U.S. troops and the stunning revelation that Saddam was already in custody at the time of his capture – and was probably betrayed by members of his own Tikriti clan
• The definitive account of the anti-U.S. resistance and uprising in Iraq, as the American invasion ignited an Islamic jihad and Iran-inspired intifada, threatening to plunge the region into irreversible chaos fueled by hatred and revenge
• Revelations about the direct involvement of Osama bin Laden in the terrorism campaigns in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of the Middle East – including the major role played by Iran and HizbAllah in al-Qaeda’s operations

Drawing upon an extraordinary wealth of previously untapped intelligence and regional sources, The Secret History of the Iraq War presents the most detailed, fascinating, and convincing account of the most controversial war of our times – and offers a sobering indictment of an intelligence system that failed the White House, the American military, and the people of the Middle East.

 

[estesbob]

Well, as an Iraqi I would rather save the hundred thousand or so of my countrymen that have died, including relatives, rather than any amount of abortions.

However, I supported the Iraq war initially and have found myself asking forgiveness to God everyday for the mistake of trusting the previous administration.

So you would prefer Saddma was still in power?

 

[CPA2]

This argument does not make sense in a democracy where there are only two parties and each candidate will have some policies that agree with the church and some policies that do not.

EX. Bush was pro life but he started two wars and allowed the torture of detainees. If I had a pro-choice candidate who would not fight the two wars or torture detainees, then I would surely vote for them.

There are just and unjust wars. However, there are no just abortions. Every abortion is a murder.