It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[estesbob]

If there was a choice between an anti-abortion candidate with immoral policies on absolutely everything else, and a pro-choice candidate with moral policies on everything else, I’d have to vote for the latter as a matter of conscience.

And in doing so you would be in defiance of the teachings of the Catholic Church. Since you are not Catholic I doubt that bothers you but Catholics need to know what their Church teaches. We are supposed to form our consciences in accordance with the teachings of the Church-not our political leanings.

 

[buffalo]

A Catholic Guide to Catholic Teaching and Voting

 

[Doc_Keele]

And in doing so you would be in defiance of the teachings of the Catholic Church. Since you are not Catholic I doubt that bothers you but Catholics need to know what their Church teaches. We are supposed to form our consciences in accordance with the teachings of the Church-not our political leanings.

Well my posts haven’t mentioned political leanings at all

I would be voting with my conscience. The Church cannot require someone to act against their conscience.

 

[Major_Tom]

I categorically said you could NOT vote for either. If explaining the teachings of the Church makes me arrogant so be it.

You know, I misread that post of yours. But now that you write this, let me make sure that I understand. In post #8, you suggested that a Catholic could in good conscience vote for McCain. Above, you state that they could not vote for either…?

 

[buffalo]

Well my posts haven’t mentioned political leanings at all

I would be voting with my conscience. The Church cannot require someone to act against their conscience.

The Church asks that you have a fully formed conscience, one that is informed by truth, not a conscience of convenience.

 

[Doc_Keele]

The Church asks that you have a fully formed conscience, one that is informed by all truth, not a conscience of convenience.

Yes, all truth, not just one issue! I’m not sure you can have a conscience of convenience?

 

[estesbob]

Well my posts haven’t mentioned political leanings at all

I would be voting with my conscience. The Church cannot require someone to act against their conscience.

The Church can not require someone to do anything. But if one is Catholic they must form their conscience in accordance with the teachings of the Church:

[1785](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1785.htm’) In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others **and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55 **

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a6.htm#1798

 

[kage_ar]

The Church asks that you have a fully formed conscience, one that is informed by truth, not a conscience of convenience.

Exactly!

Some people have a conscience that encourages sin.

 

[buffalo]

Yes, all truth, not just one issue! I’m not sure you can have a conscience of convenience?

There are five non-negotiable issues:

1. Abortion
2. Euthanasia
3. Homosexual Marriage
4. Cloning
5. Fetal Stem Cell Research

Quality of life issues do not trump life issues.

 

[estesbob]

You know, I misread that post of yours. But now that you write this, let me make sure that I understand. In post #8, you suggested that a Catholic could in good conscience vote for McCain. Above, you state that they could not vote for either…?

He could in good copnscinece vote for McCain. What the Church teaches is you can never vote for a pro-abortion canidate UNLESS his opponent is more pro-abortion than they are. This does not, however, mean one was required to vote for Mccain-just that they could not vote for Obama.

 

[Doc_Keele]

The Church can not require someone to do anything. But if one is Catholic they must form their conscience in accordance with the teachings of the Church:

[1785](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1785.htm’) In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others **and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55 **

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a6.htm#1798

That sounds less like a formed conscience and more like a substituted judgment!

 

[Doc_Keele]

There are five non-negotiable issues:

1. Abortion
2. Euthanasia
3. Homosexual Marriage
4. Cloning
5. Fetal Stem Cell Research

Sounds a great way to stop Catholic voting!

Quality of live issues do not trump life issues.

…which doesn’t make any sense at all

 

[Major_Tom]

He could in good copnscinece vote for McCain. What the Church teaches is you can never vote for a pro-abortion canidate UNLESS his opponent is more pro-abortion than they are. This does not, however, mean one was required to vote for Mccain-just that they could not vote for Obama.

Thanks for clarifying.

I still maintain that the policy is not that clear. You introduced the idea that policies on war have some weight. Do I, (if I was a Catholic voter) have to rely on the Church’s opinion of how a candidate stands on an issue of war? What if I, in my heart, fully believed that a pro-life candidate was going to start a deadly, UNJUST war. Wouldn’t that give me reason to vote against him? Thus, your “you can vote for him, but not him” may not be relevant.

Put more simply: does the Church, and/or should the Church, issue a vote card that lists acceptable candidates?

 

[buffalo]

Sounds a great way to stop Catholic voting!

…which doesn’t make any sense at all

typo - Quality of life issues do not trump life issues.

 

[Doc_Keele]

typo - Quality of life issues do not trump life issues.

I wasn’t referring to the typo, which I hadn’t noticed in all honesty

 

[buffalo]

Thanks for clarifying.

I still maintain that the policy is not that clear. You introduced the idea that policies on war have some weight. Do I, (if I was a Catholic voter) have to rely on the Church’s opinion of how a candidate stands on an issue of war? What if I, in my heart, fully believed that a pro-life candidate was going to start a deadly, UNJUST war. Wouldn’t that give me reason to vote against him? Thus, your “you can vote for him, but not him” may not be relevant.

Put more simply: does the Church, and/or should the Church, issue a vote card that lists acceptable candidates?

If you were certain a pro-life candidate would launch nukes unprovoked and the pro-death candidate would not, then for proportionate reasons you would vote for the pro-death guy.

The Church and other organizations do disseminate the voting records of the candidates which is appropriate.

 

[buffalo]

I wasn’t referring to the typo, which I hadn’t noticed in all honesty

OK - Then what don’t you get?

 

[Major_Tom]

If you were certain a pro-life candidate would launch nukes unprovoked and the pro-death candidate would not, then for proportionate reasons you would vote for the pro-death guy.

The Church and other organizations do disseminate the voting records of the candidates which is appropriate.

Got it. Thus, my candidate choice on your first point could contradict the second point, which would be allowable.

 

[Doc_Keele]

OK - Then what don’t you get?

If you don’t care for quality of life, you don’t really care for life. If QoL is always trumped by what you deem “life” issues, then that is a really incoherent way of promoting life. Keep people alive at all costs, but never mind their QoL?

 

[estesbob]

Thanks for clarifying.

I still maintain that the policy is not that clear. You introduced the idea that policies on war have some weight. Do I, (if I was a Catholic voter) have to rely on the Church’s opinion of how a candidate stands on an issue of war? What if I, in my heart, fully believed that a pro-life candidate was going to start a deadly, UNJUST war. Wouldn’t that give me reason to vote against him? Thus, your “you can vote for him, but not him” may not be relevant.

Put more simply: does the Church, and/or should the Church, issue a vote card that lists acceptable candidates?

Then you wouldnt vote for him. The problem arises when we take such an opinion and use it to rationalize supporting a pro-abortion canidate.