It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[estesbob]

I’ll have to research that more. This may not be the case with your source, but I do not trust conservative sources for information on high-profile Democrats like Obama.

Still, what I say stands. I am not forcing pregnant women to choose abortion by voting for a candidate that happens to be pro-choice, like Obama. They are responsible for their decisions, and I, quite often, engage them when and where I can to explain to them that what they are doing is callous and irresponsible. I also pray for them. Obama’s other positions heavily aligned with my Catholic values, and so I chose to vote for him. The alternative, as I explained earlier, was unacceptable. This is not convoluted at all.

You voted for Obama and were not aware he had vowed to rescind the Mexico City Policy(which kept US funds from intererntional abortion providers) as soo as he took office!!!

Obama doesnt “happen” to be pro-chocie-his support of unresricted taxpayer abortions on demand was a key component of his campaign!! What positions of Obama are aligned with Catholics values? His support of Cloning? His suppirt of fetal stem cell research? His support of homosexual marriage? His support of abortion? His cutting off funds to absitnence programs? His support of open homosexuals in the military?His support of condom distribution in our schools?

Perhaps it would help it you formed your “Catholic” values by reading the Cathecism of the Catholic Church instead of the Democrat Party Platform.

 

[estesbob]

What you are quoting is the Seamless Garment Theology by Bernadin in which all issues are of equal seriousness. This is not so. There is a hierarchy of evil which Bernadin, in his attempts to describe a Utopia, failed to discern and teach. This theory has caused difficulties of great magnitude among those who wish to follow the teachings of Mother Church. It has been disavowed by many Bishops and Archbishops.

Correct The “seamless garment” has nveer been a teaching of the Church. The Pope made this clear when he stated that support of the Iraq war and/or the death penatly were not a violation of Catholic teaching.

The idea that the Bishops have moved right and left the Democrat party behind is nonsense. the problem is that the democrat party moved sharply to the Left, categorically rejecting core moral teachings of the Church. The modern Democrat Party bears no resemblance to the Party our Parents embraced. It is sad that some Catholics still buy into the myth that the Democrat party stands for Catholic valuses.

 

[elts1956]

I’ll have to research that more. This may not be the case with your source, but I do not trust conservative sources for information on high-profile Democrats like Obama.

Still, what I say stands. I am not forcing pregnant women to choose abortion by voting for a candidate that happens to be pro-choice, like Obama. They are responsible for their decisions, and I, quite often, engage them when and where I can to explain to them that what they are doing is callous and irresponsible. I also pray for them. Obama’s other positions heavily aligned with my Catholic values, Which ones, economy, free help for the poor from our pockets? I thought giving was supposed to be a Christian thing, not mandated by the government? War? enviroment? You are definitely not thinking along the lines of Chruch doctrine.and so I chose to vote for him. The alternative, as I explained earlier, was unacceptable. This is not convoluted at all.

Go to his records. They are online. It was in the newspapers. How conservative is too conservtive for you the website Priests for Life? Life International? How could you not see this?

 

[elts1956]

I’ll have to research that more. This may not be the case with your source, but I do not trust conservative sources for information on high-profile Democrats like Obama.

Still, what I say stands. I am not forcing pregnant women to choose abortion by voting for a candidate that happens to be pro-choice, like Obama. They are responsible for their decisions, and I, quite often, engage them when and where I can to explain to them that what they are doing is callous and irresponsible. I also pray for them. Obama’s other positions heavily aligned with my Catholic values, and so I chose to vote for him. The alternative, as I explained earlier, was unacceptable. This is not convoluted at all.

Correct The “seamless garment” has nveer been a teaching of the Church. The Pope made this clear when he stated that support of the Iraq war and/or the death penatly were not a violation of Catholic teaching.

The idea that the Bishops have moved right and left the Democrat party behind is nonsense. the problem is that the democrat party moved sharply to the Left, categorically rejecting core moral teachings of the Church. The modern Democrat Party bears no resemblance to the Party our Parents embraced. It is sad that some Catholics still buy into the myth that the Democrat party stands for Catholic valuses.

You are dead right estes. My parents would not recognize the Dem. party now. Thank the Lord they can’t be bothered by it. I really think many of our Bishops and clergy have followed the left Democrats as far as they can without saying they out and out refuse to follow the teachings of the Church. ie. giving communion to pro abort pols. And look at the division caused by CHA wherein Keehan says abortion is not part of the Health Care package in direct opposition to the USCCB. May God have mercy on us all.

 

[elts1956]

Sigh.

In one of the earliest general election forums, Obama said that he was pro-choice but opposed abortion, saying that we should all take measures to help pregnant women seek alternatives. Outlawing abortion will not stop abortions; it will only create a dangerous black market. I think people on this board vastly underestimate this horrific possibility. At least with the current laws, abortions can be performed more visibly and can possibly be prevented by a just as visible community of pro-life people. I don’t think, with such a view in mind, a vote for a candidate like an Obama is a vote for abortions. I’M not forcing women to go in there and have abortions, that is THEIR choice. I will try to persuade and pray for them not to, but I am not responsible for their decision. God, in my heart of hearts, knows this.

The alternative, McCain, to my mind, was unacceptable. Hypocrisy, incompetence, shady politics, race-baiting, leading bigoted throngs of people, grand-standing foolishness (do you remember when he called his campaign off for the economic issue? so stupid), a shallow and irresponsible choice as a running mate (who, unless you’re hopelessly biased, has shown herself only to look out for herself and for money), callousness towards the poor, and I could go on and on.

Sigh, you said it. But I really thought you were describing bo. When are Catholics going to start voting moral issues instead of party? McCain wasn’t the greatest, but he was more pro life than bo and in the past election abortion was the greatest issue being dealt with. We were clearly told that we were to vote for the candidate who was most likely to prevent the spread of abortion, or over rule it. Too bad most Catholics couldn’t see the tree for the forest. Read Bernadin’s equal issue theory which has been dismissed as nonsense by the Vatican. With men like Bernadin, the Catholic Church doesn’t need enemies.

“YOU CAN’T BE PRO CHOICE AND CATHOLIC. GET IT STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL,” Father John Corapi.

 

[donna_jean]

A few years back a woman came to our church and gave a talk about sex to the teens. This woman was here on this earth as a product of a rape. She goes all over the country doing this…a true blessing yet had her mother aborted her…

when it comes to robbery, rape, incest,etc, they make no sense even in human terms and I wouldn’t support any such candidate.

As far as Obama giving money for abortion in different countries…Did he do this for woman’s health care and the places that perform the best health care in these countries also perform abortions at the facilities? Or are you saying that Obama just wants women to have abortions and he doesn’t care about the health care??? Is the information resourced from legalistic Republicans?

 

[CWBetts]

No they don’t.

How in the world do you support such a statement?

Catholics are 25% of the population. That is a significant voting block. If all Catholics would actually pay attention to what the Church teaches, instead of claiming the label when it is convenient, we could change the world.

 

[CPA2]

Catholics are 25% of the population. That is a significant voting block. If all Catholics would actually pay attention to what the Church teaches, instead of claiming the label when it is convenient, we could change the world.

Amend!!!

 

[Garland]

All, I am amazed at the number of posters who don`t know about the mexico city policy. Mr. o also voted to let any aborted baby, that survived the murder attempt, lay on a table and die for lack of care, three times. Are the catholic voters on this thread who support such heinous attacts on life with thier votes blind and deaf? garland

 

[estesbob]

All, I am amazed at the number of posters who don`t know about the mexico city policy. Mr. o also voted to let any aborted baby, that survived the murder attempt, lay on a table and die for lack of care, three times. Are the catholic voters on this thread who support such heinous attacts on life with thier votes blind and deaf? garland

If CAF is any indication very few Catholics who voted for Obama took the time to research where he stood on life issues and what the Teachings of the church were on voting for pro-abortion canidates. When a Catholic tells you Obama opposes abortion it just takes your breath away.

 

[CMatt25]

If CAF is any indication very few Catholics who voted for Obama took the time to research where he stood on life issues and what the Teachings of the church were on voting for pro-abortion canidates. When a Catholic tells you Obama opposes abortion it just takes your breath away.

Perhaps those Catholics who voted for Obama did so because they understand life does not begin at conception and end at birth.

 

[CWBetts]

Perhaps those Catholics who voted for Obama did so because they understand life does not begin at conception and end at birth.

Life begins at conception and ends at natural death. The Obama definition is that life begins at birth and ends when it is no longer useful

 

[CPA2]

Perhaps those Catholics who voted for Obama did so because they understand life does not begin at conception and end at birth.

Those “Catholics” voted with their pocketbook.

The irony is that they also failed to see that the gospel of socialism is envy, and the philosophy of socialism is failure. The Euro is toast and the dollar is sure to follow. That is the price that we pay for trying to build a world without God. If Obama did not get abortion right, how do you expect him to get anything else right?

 

[BryanM27]

Not sure if this has been posted or cited yet (didn’t want to read 45 pages of posts) but I’m gonna say it anyways.

From Donum vitae III as quoted in Paragraph 2273 of CCC:

“The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place it’s power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined.”

From this you could argue many different ways. The question now becomes, do you believe that the mother of an unborn child has certain rights that must be protected? If you do, what rights are those?

For us here in the United States, we must ask ourselves as Americans what we feel are the limitations of the First and Ninth Ammendments. Where do our rights stop and others begin? Does my right to hold my religious beliefs give me the right to stop you from believing as you do? Does the fact that my religion teaches abortion as mortal sin give me the right to prevent someone who does not believe as I do from commiting this act?

Another thing I would like to know from someone more educated in the faith than I am, is what about the scenario where abortion is made illegal? Isn’t it just as awful to force these women who are dead-set on abortion to pursue other means that place in jeopardy the lives of both mother and child?

And just for the record, I am pro-life, but I vote in the interest of the common good of my society. That means I search for three things in a candidate: respect for the person, social well-being and development, and peace and security.

 

[elts1956]

Not sure if this has been posted or cited yet (didn’t want to read 45 pages of posts) but I’m gonna say it anyways.

From Donum vitae III as quoted in Paragraph 2273 of CCC:

“The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place it’s power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined.”

From this you could argue many different ways. The question now becomes, do you believe that the mother of an unborn child has certain rights that must be protected? If you do, what rights are those?

For us here in the United States, we must ask ourselves as Americans what we feel are the limitations of the First and Ninth Ammendments. Where do our rights stop and others begin? Does my right to hold my religious beliefs give me the right to stop you from believing as you do? Does the fact that my religion teaches abortion as mortal sin give me the right to prevent someone who does not believe as I do from commiting this act?

Another thing I would like to know from someone more educated in the faith than I am, is what about the scenario where abortion is made illegal? Isn’t it just as awful to force these women who are dead-set on abortion to pursue other means that place in jeopardy the lives of both mother and child? No, lets just keep abortion legal so over a million babies a year can be aborted. Do I feel sympathy for the women who go through an illegal abortion, yes, but not as much as I feel for the child.And just for the record, I am pro-life, but I vote in the interest of the common good of my society. That means I search for three things in a candidate: respect for the person, social well-being and development, and peace and security.

Just for the record, abortion was the NUMBER ONE issue in this past POTUS election. Can you name one positive thing that has come out of bo’s administration? And don’t you dare mention Health Care to me. That was forced through by the Dems behind as many closed doors as there are doors in the White House. It is a travesty of justice to those of us who had no say in the matter. Right now I am funding, unwillingly, abortion in the US, in Africa, and other European and Asian Nations, because 56% of US Catholics didn’t know which end was up during this past election. Am I angry about this? You bet. We now have the most pro abot POTUS who has ever lived and this is the result of sound thinking? I think not. Bernadin’s Seamless Garment theory is a stench that smells like sulpher.

Also for the record, “YOU CAN’T BE CATHOLIC AND BE PRO CHOICE, GET IT STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL”. Father John Corapi Believe him.

 

[elts1956]

Not sure if this has been posted or cited yet (didn’t want to read 45 pages of posts) but I’m gonna say it anyways.

From Donum vitae III as quoted in Paragraph 2273 of CCC:

“The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place it’s power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined.”

From this you could argue many different ways. The question now becomes, do you believe that the mother of an unborn child has certain rights that must be protected? If you do, what rights are those?

For us here in the United States, we must ask ourselves as Americans what we feel are the limitations of the First and Ninth Ammendments. Where do our rights stop and others begin? Does my right to hold my religious beliefs give me the right to stop you from believing as you do? Does the fact that my religion teaches abortion as mortal sin give me the right to prevent someone who does not believe as I do from commiting this act?

Another thing I would like to know from someone more educated in the faith than I am, is what about the scenario where abortion is made illegal? Isn’t it just as awful to force these women who are dead-set on abortion to pursue other means that place in jeopardy the lives of both mother and child?

And just for the record, I am pro-life, but I vote in the interest of the common good of my society. That means I search for three things in a candidate: respect for the person, social well-being and development, and peace and security.

A few years back a woman came to our church and gave a talk about sex to the teens. This woman was here on this earth as a product of a rape. She goes all over the country doing this…a true blessing yet had her mother aborted her…

when it comes to robbery, rape, incest,etc, they make no sense even in human terms and I wouldn’t support any such candidate.

As far as Obama giving money for abortion in different countries…Did he do this for woman’s health care and the places that perform the best health care in these countries also perform abortions at the facilities? Or are you saying that Obama just wants women to have abortions and he doesn’t care about the health care??? Is the information resourced from legalistic Republicans?

Get it straight “HEALTH CARE = ABORTION” in Planned Parenthood lingo. bo has no excuse. He repealed all protection from US citizens being forced to give to Internationl funding of abortion. He gives oodles of money to Planned Parenthood.

And please get off the Dem. Repub. grandstand. This is a moral issue, not a political one.
I, for one, am sick of hearing the political excuse, of oh, you are just against Dems, or Repubs. This is about Church teaching. I hope you do check it out.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Perhaps those Catholics who voted for Obama did so because they understand life does not begin at conception and end at birth.

How do you tell slave owners before emanication that they are wrong in the eyes of God and man?

We all know that they were…

Apply the same answer here…

Yes, it is the same thing. I’ll be happy to prove it.

 

[CMatt25]

Also for the record, “YOU CAN’T BE CATHOLIC AND BE PRO CHOICE, GET IT STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL”. Father John Corapi Believe him.

Perhaps Fr Corapi needs to study who the Church defines as a Catholic. I believe perhaps he instead meant to say something to the effect you can not be a fully faithful 100% practicing Catholic.

 

[BryanM27]

Just for the record, abortion was the NUMBER ONE issue in this past POTUS election. Can you name one positive thing that has come out of bo’s administration? And don’t you dare mention Health Care to me. That was forced through by the Dems behind as many closed doors as there are doors in the White House. It is a travesty of justice to those of us who had no say in the matter. Right now I am funding, unwillingly, abortion in the US, in Africa, and other European and Asian Nations, because 56% of US Catholics didn’t know which end was up during this past election. Am I angry about this? You bet. We now have the most pro abot POTUS who has ever lived and this is the result of sound thinking? I think not. Bernadin’s Seamless Garment theory is a stench that smells like sulpher.

Also for the record, “YOU CAN’T BE CATHOLIC AND BE PRO CHOICE, GET IT STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL”. Father John Corapi Believe him.

I am pro-life, not pro-choice, thank you. And IMHO there is something positive that has come out of the current administration. We did not blindly hand ourselves over to emotion and remove our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. Thank God Obama at least checked his ego at the door on that one.

Health care? Well there are some positives to that one but I agree that it comes at a terrible price.

And please get off the Dem. Repub. grandstand. This is a moral issue, not a political one.
I, for one, am sick of hearing the political excuse, of oh, you are just against Dems, or Repubs. This is about Church teaching. I hope you do check it out.

From a moral standpoint, you’re right and I agree wholeheartedly. However it has unfortunately become a political issue.

And as others have stated already this is a more complex issue politically than it is morally. There are numerous people that are involved in this process. It starts with electing someone brave enough to introduce anti-abortion legislature in Congress, and then with electing other who will support them and push that bill through both houses. Only then can the President sign off on it. If he does, then comes the legal challenge and the President must be able to appoint justices who will support the new law, whether that is for or against abortion.

In reality, the President has little control over the major issues. It will take a vast amount of change throughout the US government.

 

[BryanM27]

How do you tell slave owners before emanication that they are wrong in the eyes of God and man?

We all know that they were…

Apply the same answer here…

Yes, it is the same thing. I’ll be happy to prove it.

Can you please? I would love to see this proof! Honestly! I don’t doubt it, I just want to see it.