It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

  • Thread starter Thread starter CPA2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes.

But if all the candidates are pro-abortion, then choose the lesser of the evils.

I sure wish we’d call those who are pro-abortion, pro-murder. Things would be so much more clear.
 
And the Church then wants to outlaw choice for even one tenth of 1% who find themselves in that position. That’s what I mean by they will not budge and expects everyone to totally come to their position.

.
“Catholic liberals believe it would be both wise and just for the church to loosen up on doctrinal demands.” That is the same error that Judas made about the teachings of Jesus. Some of the “doctrinal demands” of the Catholic Church are the right to life, opposition to birth control and opposition to “gay” marriages. No pope can change those “doctrinal demands.” Truth is immutable. It does not change. Pope Benedict XVI, formerly Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, will defend the truth. One of the new pope’s key gifts is his ability to articulate the fact that there is such a thing as truth. That does not make him a conservative, moderate or liberal.

A dogma is an idea. Every scientific statement is a dogma. Some people make a religion out of these scientific dogmas. Others practice an indifference to truth with a capital “T.” This is the principal dogma of individualism. I find that these people fall into a surprising inconsistency.

What is truth? That is the question that echoes throughout the ages. “In philosophy, it is contended that there was no such thing as Truth ‘with a capital T’; truth is purely ambulatory-we make it as we go. Truth is merely a point of view for each man. (Truth) is his own measure of what is true and what is good. Naturally, such a system produces as many philosophies as there are heads…(However,) truth is not something that we invent; if we do, it is a lie; rather it is something we discover, like love…To want to speak the truth, it must be loved” (Sheen 326).
 
elts, thank ALLMIGHTY GOD for you and the insight you give to this insane world. It comes down to, do I believe in the JESUS of the CHURCH, or the protestant version that keeps changing his mind on whatever the thought of the day happens to be. If GOD had wanted me to interpet for my self he most certainly would not have said “he who hears you hears me and him who sent me”, I am appalled at the twist and turns people take to justify thier vote for the most evil party and its leaders ever to be in this country. Your words speak of eternal christian TRUTHS, and thiers of politics. Please christian brothers and sisters think of the little ones crying before God for justice. How much innocent blood must be poured on the liberal, progressive,[or any other name, your choice] altar before CHRISTIANS awake to the HORROWS of the party of death and make a choice for true CHANGE. A change that embraces ALL HUMAN LIFE, born and unborn. There are dems who support life. If you vote for them only, you can return the TRUE DEMOCRATIC party to its roots. If there is one thing all politicians understand, its being defeated for a reason. If that reason is pro-abortion, you will see it abandoned quickly if they see their defeat in the making. I pray daily for all and for myself that we can truly be the AMERICA where all people are truly free and respected for being gifts of allmighty GOD to each other. AND THEY WILL KNOW WE ARE CHRISTIAN BY OUR LOVE. Love for the unborn as well as the born. Garland
Welcome to the TRUTH and the LIFE Garland. And thank you for your prayers. I pray to Our Lady of Good Council that I open my mouth at the right time and keep it shut when I should. I feel so very strongly the Chruch needs a good cleansing by the Holy Spirit. Pray to Him and keep Him in your heart. Again, thanks for your words of support. :gopray2:
 
That’s good and ok start and stand up first for what you want. Nevermind Christ did not address the word abortion directly and it never appears in Scripture. While He certainly addressed the others of which you are not starting with.

Were you at the parish around the corner from me standing in protest of war? Christ did speak of the peacemakers being blessed too you know. Or in favor of quality, affordable healthcare to take care of the sick? Oh no you could not have been because they did not have such protests. Only abortion. Other issues are hardly mentioned in several parishes I have frequented. Well I’ll take that back. The priest at the corner parish did say his answer to the poor is simply to get a job. Peace.
I suppose you haven’t read the USCCB doctrine of Social Justice either???

It can be found at www.USCCB.org

catholic.com/library/Abortion.asp

Abortion

The Catholic Church has always condemned abortion as a grave evil. Christian writers from the first-century author of the Didache to Pope John Paul II in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae (“The Gospel of Life”) have maintained that the Bible forbids abortion, just as it forbids murder. This tract will provide some examples of this consistent witness from the writings of the Fathers of the Church.

As the early Christian writer Tertullian pointed out, the law of Moses ordered strict penalties for causing an abortion. We read, “If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [Hebrew: “so that her child comes out”], but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” (Ex. 21:22–24).

Jesus didn’t throw this law under the prophet’s tent. He said he came to “fulfill” the law, not abolish it.

This applies the lex talionis or “law of retribution” to abortion. The lex talionis establishes the just punishment for an injury (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life, compared to the much greater retributions that had been common before, such as life for eye, life for tooth, lives of the offender’s family for one life).

The lex talionis would already have been applied to a woman who was injured in a fight. The distinguishing point in this passage is that a pregnant woman is hurt “so that her child comes out”; the child is the focus of the lex talionis in this passage. Aborted babies must have justice, too.

This is because they, like older children, have souls, even though marred by original sin. David tells us, “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Ps. 51:5, NIV). Since sinfulness is a spiritual rather than a physical condition, David must have had a spiritual nature from the time of conception.

The same is shown in James 2:26, which tells us that “the body without the spirit is dead”: The soul is the life-principle of the human body. Since from the time of conception the child’s body is alive (as shown by the fact it is growing), the child’s body must already have its spirit.

Thus, in 1995 Pope John Paul II declared that the Church’s teaching on abortion “is unchanged and unchangeable. Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his successors . . . I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church” (Evangelium Vitae 62).

The early Church Fathers agreed. Fortunately, abortion, like all sins, is forgivable; and forgiveness is as close as the nearest confessional.

The Didache

“The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child” (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas

“The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. The knowledge, therefore, which is given to us for the purpose of walking in this way, is the following. . . . Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born” (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).

There are other teachings of the Church and the Early Church Fathers which I have already posted. Apparently you haven’t read them. Go to

catholic.com/library/Abortion.asp
if you are interested in hearing the absolute truth. Of course since you don’t believe in anything the Church teaches, I suppose this is a useless effort. 🤷 Jesus spoke the words, the Church has interpreted them in many tomes. Can you prove her wrong according to absolute truth?
 
Knowledge and reason are two different things. I cite reason.

I think that it is reasonable to assume that the unborn baby is a human being. I beg you to answer the question, When does the fetus become a human being? Is it at birth?

When does life “begin?”

Science is beginning to answer that question.
:confused: CPA, I could answer with my faith beliefs and you might be surprised if you think pro choice folks are pro abortion. But it is not alone my faith or reason regarding when the fetus becomes a human being and life begins which should be the law of the land. I am merely 1 of over 309,500,000 in the US. Nor was I a member of the Supreme Court in 1973. I have one vote just about like the rest of us and I don’t use it to force my religious beliefs on this to make it the law of the land. You can if you so choose. But do let me know when science answers about the soul.
 
…Judas Iscariot, the Patron Saint of Social Justice, where people are concerned with humanity but ignore the truths of God…—Bishop Fulton Sheen

There is only one God, but there are many religions. God is not responsible for the many religions. Man caused the division among believers. Jesus did not come to abolish the “Law,” but to fulfill it. Man is the one who messed up, not God.

How many denominations of Christians do we have? The number of different Christian Churches boggles my mind. Every church interprets the bible differently. Sometimes it is nice to have a pope and the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. It is also nice to be a Catholic. The teaching of the Catholic Church has not changed since its inception. We do not have to keep rediscovering the meaning of the bible.

The people that I really admire are Christian preachers who have become Catholic priests. Some of these people hated the Catholic Church, taught in Protestant seminaries, etc. I cannot imagine what struggles these people had. I do find a common thread, however. They all had to study Church teaching in the third or fourth century, well before the Reformation.
 
No the question is if you and others accept the Church’s definition of who is a Catholic. And if not, and many here seem not to, how is that not dissent?
One who has been baptized in the Catholic rite is Catholic, always. That is what makes it such a terrible act to deny the teachings of the Church. Many churches accept all rites of Baptism. The Catholic Church has a definite ritual that must be followed in order for the Baptism to be accepted. To be truly Catholic and avoid sin, one must follow Church Teachings.

And because you do not agree with the teachings of the Church, but have your own program, are you accusing us of dissenting with your theology?
 
One who has been baptized in the Catholic rite is Catholic, always…
And because you do not agree with the teachings of the Church, but have your own program, are you accusing us of dissenting with your theology?
No Elts, not at all. I am simply beyond thrilled at the moment :extrahappy: about who is always Catholic :amen: and I only hope everyone else on CAFassents with us on ID. Alleluia! :grouphug:
 
No the question is if you and others accept the Church’s definition of who is a Catholic. And if not, and many here seem not to, how is that not dissent?
:confused: CPA, I could answer with my faith beliefs and you might be surprised if you think pro choice folks are pro abortion. But it is not alone my faith or reason regarding when the fetus becomes a human being and life begins which should be the law of the land. I am merely 1 of over 309,500,000 in the US. Nor was I a member of the Supreme Court in 1973. I have one vote just about like the rest of us and I don’t use it to force my religious beliefs on this to make it the law of the land. You can if you so choose. But do let me know when science answers about the soul.
Science will never get into the doctrine of ensoulment. How silly. Force your beliefs? How about abortion being FORCED on millions of babies per year. Pro Choice means ignoring the right of the human baby to live, thus it is pro abortion. There is no such thing as Pro Chioice being logical and according to the tenents of Natural Law. Ignore Natural Law and face dire logical consequences.
 
Orthodox ,Lutherans, Calvinists, and Baptist all dissent with Church teaching and they don’t seem to have any problems… … 😊🤷
 
Science will never get into the doctrine of ensoulment. How silly.
Which is exactly why it is silly, less fruitful, less realisitic to take the extreme position and spend so much time, effort, energy, and resources on trying to overturn this law based on faith and beliefs and instead we should be spending the time, effort, energy, and resources on things we can more readily affect. Working instead to make abortion rare. Programs to aid mothers and their children after birth. We could do so much more to aid humankind if we were not so one issue oriented and even in that if we were not so to the one sided extreme. God bless and peace.
 
Which is exactly why it is silly, less fruitful, less realisitic to take the extreme position and spend so much time, effort, energy, and resources on trying to overturn this law based on faith and beliefs and instead we should be spending the time, effort, energy, and resources on things we can more readily affect. Working instead to make abortion rare. Programs to aid mothers and their children after birth. We could do so much more to aid humankind if we were not so one issue oriented and even in that if we were not so to the one sided extreme. God bless and peace.
Wrong answer!

Where does the “Rule of Law” originate and derive its power?

Have you read the Declaration of Independence? It is not just a historical document. It is an unchanging document that holds the key to our freedom. We have lost sight of this document and have put our freedom into the precarious hands of the so-called “majority.”

I compare the Declaration of Independence to the articles of incorporation of a company, and the Constitution to the by-laws of a company. The moral laws of right and wrong are contained in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

The source of the “rule of law” goes back to Divine Law. The Declaration of Independence uses the words, the “equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them.” What do these words really mean?

The ideas of the source of legitimate law were being formulated by the Catholic Church before the Magna Carta. Truth always goes back to the source of truth, which is public revelation, commonly known as the Holy Scriptures.

ANY LAW IN TRANSGRESSION OF DIVINE LAW IS INVALID! **An unjust law is no law at all! ** Such laws are to be defied because they do not exist. There is no basis for them. A recent example is Spain’s “laws” on marriages and adoptions. Pope Benedict has ordered citizens of Spain who work in adoption agencies to defy Spain’s new laws of illicit marriages and adoptions. Workers in adoption agencies are to refuse to fill out any paperwork or grant adoption of children to illicit and unnatural marriage unions. Spain’s new law disobeys natural law. **NO HUMAN LAW AGAINST NATURAL LAW IS VALID! **

I repeat myself again. There is Divine Law, Natural Law and Civil Law, in that order. Man only has control over civil law. Each type of law is separate and you cannot substitute one type of law for another type of law.

The Supreme Court has NO jurisdiction over abortion because abortion is about divine law. Roe versus Wade is not worth the paper that it is written on. An unjust law is no law at all. The emperor has no clothes.

No one needs to obey an invalid law; in fact, you have a moral obligation to oppose invalid laws such as abortion.
 
Wrong answer!

Where does the “Rule of Law” originate and derive its power?

Have you read the Declaration of Independence? It is not just a historical document. It is an unchanging document that holds the key to our freedom. We have lost sight of this document and have put our freedom into the precarious hands of the so-called “majority.”

I compare the Declaration of Independence to the articles of incorporation of a company, and the Constitution to the by-laws of a company. The moral laws of right and wrong are contained in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

The source of the “rule of law” goes back to Divine Law. The Declaration of Independence uses the words, the “equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them.” What do these words really mean?

The ideas of the source of legitimate law were being formulated by the Catholic Church before the Magna Carta. Truth always goes back to the source of truth, which is public revelation, commonly known as the Holy Scriptures.

ANY LAW IN TRANSGRESSION OF DIVINE LAW IS INVALID! **An unjust law is no law at all! **Such laws are to be defied because they do not exist. There is no basis for them. A recent example is Spain’s “laws” on marriages and adoptions. Pope Benedict has ordered citizens of Spain who work in adoption agencies to defy Spain’s new laws of illicit marriages and adoptions. Workers in adoption agencies are to refuse to fill out any paperwork or grant adoption of children to illicit and unnatural marriage unions. Spain’s new law disobeys natural law. NO HUMAN LAW AGAINST NATURAL LAW IS VALID!

I repeat myself again. There is Divine Law, Natural Law and Civil Law, in that order. Man only has control over civil law. Each type of law is separate and you cannot substitute one type of law for another type of law.

The Supreme Court has NO jurisdiction over abortion because abortion is about divine law. Roe versus Wade is not worth the paper that it is written on. An unjust law is no law at all. The emperor has no clothes.
Although heated…that was a well written post…Cheers:thumbsup: 👍 👍
 
Wrong answer!

Where does the “Rule of Law” originate and derive its power?

Have you read the Declaration of Independence? It is not just a historical document. It is an unchanging document that holds the key to our freedom. We have lost sight of this document and have put our freedom into the precarious hands of the so-called “majority.”

I compare the Declaration of Independence to the articles of incorporation of a company, and the Constitution to the by-laws of a company. The moral laws of right and wrong are contained in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

The source of the “rule of law” goes back to Divine Law. The Declaration of Independence uses the words, the “equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them.” What do these words really mean?

The ideas of the source of legitimate law were being formulated by the Catholic Church before the Magna Carta. Truth always goes back to the source of truth, which is public revelation, commonly known as the Holy Scriptures.

ANY LAW IN TRANSGRESSION OF DIVINE LAW IS INVALID! **An unjust law is no law at all! ** Such laws are to be defied because they do not exist. There is no basis for them. A recent example is Spain’s “laws” on marriages and adoptions. Pope Benedict has ordered citizens of Spain who work in adoption agencies to defy Spain’s new laws of illicit marriages and adoptions. Workers in adoption agencies are to refuse to fill out any paperwork or grant adoption of children to illicit and unnatural marriage unions. Spain’s new law disobeys natural law. **NO HUMAN LAW AGAINST NATURAL LAW IS VALID! **

I repeat myself again. There is Divine Law, Natural Law and Civil Law, in that order. Man only has control over civil law. Each type of law is separate and you cannot substitute one type of law for another type of law.

The Supreme Court has NO jurisdiction over abortion because abortion is about divine law. Roe versus Wade is not worth the paper that it is written on. An unjust law is no law at all. The emperor has no clothes.

No one needs to obey an invalid law; in fact, you have a moral obligation to oppose invalid laws such as abortion.
Ok then you want to throw out the Constitution I guess. Good luck.
 
You are twisting my words. I am surprised at you. Objective TRUTH digger.

According to Rev. Thomas D. Williams, L. C. there are six characteistics distinguishing abortion from related social phenomena.
  1. Abortion deals spcifically with the destruction of human life.
    2 The sheer magnitude of the problem
  2. It’s legal status. Unlike other forms of killing of human life which have laws to prevent such , abortion enjoys legal sanction.
  3. The arbitrary division of human beings into those worthy of life and those unworthy.
  4. Abortion even distinguishes itself from other forms of medical ethics, such as euthanasia and assisted suicide, by the absence of any possibility of informed consent.
  5. Finally abortion differs from other major social ills such as unemployment and divorce because of it invisibility.
Father Thomas D. Williams, L.C. is Dean of Theology and profesor of Catholic Social Doctrine at Rome’s Regina Apostolorum University and auth of, most recently, Spiritual Progress: Becoming the Christian you Want To Be (2007)

Check for the website of Infant in My Womb Leaped For Joy if you want to read the full context.
I had no intention of twisting your words, sorry if it came across that way. I was really just trying to understand what you said, and the logical implications of what you said.

I don’t understand how your quotes from Rev. Williams (no matter who he is) responds to my question regarding your post I responded to.

You posted:
But then I woke up and looked at the hierarchy of good and evil and decided the unborn need more protection than a likely criminal on death row.
I just don’t see where the Catholic Church teaches that some human lives are in more need of protection than others.
Thanks.
 
I read it well enough to know it gave an easy out for Cafeteria catholics to vote their feelings rather than Church teaching. Show me where it says one should not support a candidate who has an abortion platform.
See #34
Show me where it outright said the #1 issue in this past POTUS election was abortion.
It doesn’t. That’s the point. Show me where Catholic teaching requires it should? Note…I’m not asking you to say where the Church says abortion is intrinsically evil, of course it is. I’m asking you to say where the Church teaches that abortion is the first and only issue one should consider in political elections.
I Abortion has been shoved under the table.
What? Are you kidding? By the U.S. Bishops? Come on, get serious. See #22 and #42. Also see in general usccb.org/prolife/issues/abortion/index.shtml
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top