The Church IS free to decree what is right and wrong, and that power was entrusted to her by the Lord. If you dispute that authority, then whose side are you on? Did Jesus lie when He gave this authority to the Church?
Right. Greed replaced Christ, which is why Catholics care about abortion. It MUST be class envy.Beautifully said. My argument precisely. The collapse of all other issues to one. I’m old enough as well to remember when Dems were the Catholic party. I knew of devout Catholics who right next to their statue of the Blessed Mother Mary, had a bust of a Kennedy prominently displayed in their homes.
I think besides Roe perhaps what has also happened is govt policy over the yrs has actually helped many Catholics achieve higher economic status but now having attained their own status, they shun such policy for others. Greed I believe sadly came to be the Word in the 80s under Reagan. And it has presented us with many of the problems we see today.
God bless you and peace.
I am sure there are some who have achieved increased economic status due to governmet policy, but not many.
I think besides Roe perhaps what has also happened is govt policy over the yrs has actually helped many Catholics achieve higher economic status but now having attained their own status, they shun such policy for others. Greed I believe sadly came to be the Word in the 80s under Reagan. And it has presented us with many of the problems we see today.
God bless you and peace.
Christ’s. No of course He did not lie. He may need to correct and reform as human leaders go astray. By their fruits ye shall know them. But no Christ is not a liar. I have faith He will make certain the gates have not prevailed in the end. May He bless you and peace.
To oppose the Church is to oppose Christ. “He who rejects you rejects me, and the one who sent me” To oppose the Church on any position of faith and morals is ver precarious ground to be on. To cast your lot against the Church is to cast it with Satan.
No but I believe perhaps why so many Catholics today are now opposed to a more liberal econ policy and social programs to serve the poor, the hungry, the thirsty, the sick.Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh. And Good Grief!!! Don’t you read the answers to your posts? :banghead::bangheadHi Lypher, no forgiveness needed.
It depends on which saint or Pope from which era of changing Church history you want to believe.
St. Augustine accepted the concept of “delayed ensoulment”. He wrote that a human soul cannot live in an unformed body. Thus, early in pregnancy, an abortion is not murder because no human soul is destroyed.
Pope Innocent III (1161-1216) determined that a monk who had arranged for his lover to have an abortion was not guilty of murder if the fetus was not “animated” at the time.
Early in the 13th century, he stated that the soul enters the body of the fetus at the time of “quickening” - when the woman first feels movement of the fetus. Before that time, abortion was a less serious sin, because it terminated only potential human person, not an actual human person.
While Pope Sixtus V (1588) issued a Papal bull threatening those who carried out abortions at any stage of gestation with excommunication and the death penalty, Pope Gregory XIV (1591) revoked the bull of Sixtus and reinstated the “quickening” test, which he determined happened 16½ weeks or at about 4 mos into a pregnancy.
And then I think still today (but it too could have changed) the Church has a rather complex exception process allowing procedures which abort the fetus to save the life of the mother. However they call it indirect abortion or a double effect. And like to think they don’t know by performing such a procedure that the fetus will likely die. I applaud this as an act of mercy and deserving compassion toward the life of the mother. However I don’t think they should pretend they don’t know that such an act is in all likelihood going to kill the fetus and then be so judging in other circumstances.
Biblically you’re missing Ex 21: 22-24 which clearly suggests the death of a fetus is not quite as serious as if an actual person already born is killed. Some might even Biblically argue body + breath = the soul or human person as found in Genesis 2:7.
And no a lot of Catholics are Catholic according to Church teaching. Maybe they haven’t covered that yet with you in your RCIA classes. About how Baptism according to the rites of the CC makes one a member of the Body of Christ, which is the Church and imprints a permanent bond onto the soul in which no act can cause one to lose membership. A lot of Catholics dissent, this is true. But have not become Lutheran or members of another Protestant church. And thus remain Catholic in the eyes of the Church. But don’t worry a lot of Catholics on CAF don’t seem to know the teaching either. Or else they too dissent and won’t admit it.
Truly God bless you in your journey into the Catholic faith. And as we walk united in Him, let us always remain humble remembering it is He Whom is greater than any differences we might have. God bless you and peace be with you always.
Your still Catholic brother in Christ,
CMatt25
religioustolerance.org/abo_hist_c.htm
religioustolerance.org/abo_hist_c1.htm
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html
o you equate the Scientific knowledge of St. Augustine, Pope Innocent III (1161-1216), Pope Sixtus V (1588), or Pope Sixtus V (1588) with the scientists of today who have discovered THAT for one discovery, HUMAN DNA is made up of four chemicals, abbreviated as letters A, T, G, and C. Much like the ones and zeros, these letters are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. The order in which they are arranged instructs the cell’s actions.Hi Lypher, no forgiveness needed.
It depends on which saint or Pope from which era of changing Church history you want to believe.
St. Augustine accepted the concept of “delayed ensoulment”. He wrote that a human soul cannot live in an unformed body. Thus, early in pregnancy, an abortion is not murder because no human soul is destroyed.
Pope Innocent III (1161-1216) determined that a monk who had arranged for his lover to have an abortion was not guilty of murder if the fetus was not “animated” at the time.
Early in the 13th century, he stated that the soul enters the body of the fetus at the time of “quickening” - when the woman first feels movement of the fetus. Before that time, abortion was a less serious sin, because it terminated only potential human person, not an actual human person.
While Pope Sixtus V (1588) issued a Papal bull threatening those who carried out abortions at any stage of gestation with excommunication and the death penalty, Pope Gregory XIV (1591) revoked the bull of Sixtus and reinstated the “quickening” test, which he determined happened 16½ weeks or at about 4 mos into a pregnancy.
And then I think still today (but it too could have changed) the Church has a rather complex exception process allowing procedures which abort the fetus to save the life of the mother. However they call it indirect abortion or a double effect. And like to think they don’t know by performing such a procedure that the fetus will likely die. I applaud this as an act of mercy and deserving compassion toward the life of the mother. However I don’t think they should pretend they don’t know that such an act is in all likelihood going to kill the fetus and then be so judging in other circumstances.
Biblically you’re missing Ex 21: 22-24 which clearly suggests the death of a fetus is not quite as serious as if an actual person already born is killed. Some might even Biblically argue body + breath = the soul or human person as found in Genesis 2:7.
And no a lot of Catholics are Catholic according to Church teaching. Maybe they haven’t covered that yet with you in your RCIA classes. About how Baptism according to the rites of the CC makes one a member of the Body of Christ, which is the Church and imprints a permanent bond onto the soul in which no act can cause one to lose membership. A lot of Catholics dissent, this is true. But have not become Lutheran or members of another Protestant church. And thus remain Catholic in the eyes of the Church. But don’t worry a lot of Catholics on CAF don’t seem to know the teaching either. Or else they too dissent and won’t admit it.
Truly God bless you in your journey into the Catholic faith. And as we walk united in Him, let us always remain humble remembering it is He Whom is greater than any differences we might have. God bless you and peace be with you always.
Your still Catholic brother in Christ,
CMatt25
religioustolerance.org/abo_hist_c.htm
religioustolerance.org/abo_hist_c1.htm
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html
The problem is, the kind of care bo and his minions are promoting have more than a tinge of communism and socialism interwoven with their “christian” ethics. I personally want the government to keep its hands off my decisions as to who I will and will not care for. We have the Church to lead us in care of the poor. It’s just that human greed, including governmental greed has blindsided her for centuries. Sometimes she has even blindsided herself with inept clergy.
It’s funny how some of us think the DP is too liberal and some of us don’t think it’s liberal enough but too centrist in ways. But I hardly think Mao would have as much trouble distinguishing as you. Peace.
Matt,
It’s funny how some of us think the DP is too liberal and some of us don’t think it’s liberal enough but too centrist in ways. But I hardly think Mao would have as much trouble distinguishing as you. Peace.
The sweeping changes in social plans in the government enslaves the people, making them wholly dependent on the government. Yes the poor should be cared for, but not at the expense of their dignity.
It’s funny how some of us think the DP is too liberal and some of us don’t think it’s liberal enough but too centrist in ways. But I hardly think Mao would have as much trouble distinguishing as you. Peace.
Many just think the government isn’t the right outlet for providing that help. I donate my time and money to many worthy charities. Doesn’t God love a cheerful giver? I don’t consider it “charity” when you take money from people, rich or not, under the threat of imprisonment.
It certainly has moved consistently to the left over the past 30 years. It’s no longer the party of Truman and (Jack) Kennedy.
Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhh. And Good Grief!!! Don’t you read the answers to your posts? :banghead::banghead
What is amazing is that within the tiny space in every cell in your body, this code is three billion letters long!!2
To grasp the amount of DNA information in one cell, "a live reading of that code at a rate of three letters per second would take thirty-one years, even if reading continued day and night."3 Wait, there’s more.
It has been determined that 99.9% of your DNA is similar to everyone’s genetic makeup.4 What is uniquely you comes in the fractional difference in how those three billion letters are sequenced in your cells.
Now ALL of this is present in the just formed combination of sperm and egg. Not human huh? Disprove it scientifically.
The three aforementioned gentlemen were theologians, speaking in the context of what they knew scientifically in their day. As far as I know, the Church has not said Science does not know what it is talking about in the case of DNA. It is only when some off the road “scholar” tries to prove the Church theologically wrong that she then speaks up.
"And the LORD God formed a man’s body from the dust of the ground and breathed into it the breath of life. And the man became a living person. … " Genesis 2:7 I do believe the Bible was talking about Adam and Eve???, fully grown, or am I terribly off base here? And who do you think breathes “life” into those babies? Who has so magnificently prepared the human race to be able to propagate in such an awesome manner? Who else but God the creator has EVER created SOMETHING from NOTHING?
You are spreading misinformation around the globe. Please come back to Earth. Or on second thought…maybe not???
If I didn’t read your answers how else would I know that 2 days ago you didn’t want to talk science as it related to the human soul, I quote you, “Science will never get into the doctrine of ensoulment. How silly.” And today you want to talk science. Christ is going to tell one of them the soul enters the body at 4 mos and another at conception? Come on. Get serious. That is what is silly.A difference in our political philosophies to be sure. And true you don’t need the govt to tell you. Christ told you. But govt already provides you many services for your benefit. Do you pave your own roads? Provide your own fire and police protection? Might you have city water? Anyone here attend a public school? Render unto Caesar. When the Church and individuals have failed in Christ’s mission, then we collectively in the form of a govt have a role to take in helping fill in the gaps the Church and individuals have obviously failed at.
Lypher, I’ve met many homeless on my streets as well. Most of the ones I’ve met have not been drunk. But regardless I’m not going to judge or judge that many don’t care. But if you wish to, that’s up to you. God bless.
If you think the DP has not been more centrist since Bill Clinton began taking it there then you obviously haven’t been a lib long.
Peace. to the first part. And they’re still even Catholic. Progress.I’m actually a recovering liberal since 1997, or as some call it, “Conservatarian”.If you think the DP has not been more centrist since Bill Clinton began taking it there then you obviously haven’t been a lib long.
