It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[diggerdomer]

This must be newer Catholic teaching then what I have had.??? Where did you buy your CCC???

I don’t know what you mean. The CCC I have is the one approved by the Vatican. Please clarify.

 

[Lypher]

If I am not correct, then please tell me (and all Catholic in the U.S.) which political party are Catholics obliged to vote for, as part of their Catholic faith? Thanks.

I don’t think it’s right to call them “pro-abortion”, they’re pro-choice, myself being one of them. And with many being killed in the bible, including unborn children, I find it silly it’s being considered a religious issue.

I believe they are the opposite of the Pro-Life movement…so I will call them Pro-Death… I want to make sure that everyone knows and remembers the baby has no choice in this decision…just life or death…Simple truth.

 

[CWBetts]

I don’t think it’s right to call them “pro-abortion”, they’re pro-choice, myself being one of them. And with many being killed in the bible, including unborn children, I find it silly it’s being considered a religious issue.

That is because you have blinded yourself from the Truth. It is a religious issue, because we are trying to save the lives of the most innocent of all: the unborn.

 

[Lypher]

If I am not correct, then please tell me (and all Catholic in the U.S.) which political party are Catholics obliged to vote for, as part of their Catholic faith? Thanks.

The title of the threa is “It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Sbortion Candidates”. No where in that thread does it say Party.

I do believe that MANY Republicans are against Abortions as well as Democrates and Green Peace candidates. This is not a PARTY issue it is a Candidates issue and it SHOULD be a Catholics issue. If a “Gold” Candidate believes that abortion is ok in cases of Rape and Incest but a “Silver” candidate holds that in no case should abortion be allowed. I would vote for the “Silver” candidate.

This is a LIFE and Sin issue…and a Catholic that is practicing the teaching of the Church will follow…
That is not correct…the judgment is made by the magisterium, simple Church authority. It is interesting to me, this Lutheran convert, that often times when someone points out that a Catholic is drifting away from Church teaching that the person doing the correcting is called uncharitable…The CCC is pretty clear on this…

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

**1869 **Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. "Structures of sin" are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144

1873* The root of all sins lies in man’s heart. the kinds and the gravity of sins are determined principally by their objects.

1874 To ****choose deliberately ***- that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.

144 John Paul II, RP 16.

With the above said. I have done my part to point out to you that which is wrong. You will, or will not accept this. I am charged in **1868 **to make sure that you know… Now it is up to you. You can no longer claim invincible ignorance you will now make a choice, like 50,000,000 other women, you will make a choice.

Tough CHOICE, but no matter what you will make one, even if you choose not to make one, you still have made a choice…

 

[diggerdomer]

I believe they are the opposite of the Pro-Life movement…so I will call them Pro-Death… I want to make sure that everyone knows and remembers the baby has no choice in this decision…just life or death…Simple truth.

You quoted me but didn’t answer my question.

 

[diggerdomer]

The title of the threa is “It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Sbortion Candidates”. No where in that thread does it say Party. ]

Exactly. Catholics are not obligated to vote for one political party.

 

[Lypher]

Exactly. Catholics are not obligated to vote for one political party.

Glad you see it my way…so long as we vote pro-life when we can we are good to go… Party has nothing to do with it.

 

[diggerdomer]

Glad you see it my way…so long as we vote pro-life when we can we are good to go… Party has nothing to do with it.

Exactly.

 

[RobGeoAnthony]

Let us take the motto of this thread, “It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-abortion Candidates,” and look at it with (1) Church teaching and (2) common sense.

The answer is no it is not a sin. Our elected officials have a civic duty to fulfill–that is–following the law of the land. This question was put to President Kennedy when he was campaigning for the presidency in 1960 and that in terms of would Kennedy take his marching orders from the Pope. His reply was “No, he would follow the US Constitution and US law in running the nation if he were elected.” That is the right proper answer.

The Church may espouse a particular view on an issue of the law. That is its right in its teaching and moral and spiritual authority. The civil authority exists to ensure the orderly functioning of society. As a Catholic, I agree and support the Church’s view on abortion, but I do not, and will not, force my view on others because to do so negates the other parties’ Free Will. By that token, it is harassment of duly elected government officials to threaten excommunication, interdiction or censure because that elected official is following the law of the land.

Now, get this straight. I, therefore, will not vote for either Republican politicians or so-called Tea Party candidates solely on the issue of abortion. Both of those groups have a hidden agenda that is at odds with Gospel as preached by Jesus Christ. There is no concern for others and seeks the creation of an elite. There is a perverse dumbing down of the principle of Just War, i.e. The 2nd Iraqi War pursued for revenge and built on the lies of Weapons of Mass Destruction and bio-chemical warfare.

 

[Lypher]

Let us take …

Church teaching says you can NOT vote for something that is Evil. Abortion is Evil most other issues are politics…

The answer is no …

Kennedy is probably not a very good Catholic to use as an example…to many women and hence did not follow the teachings of the Catholic Church. You can say what you want and keep God out of your life using the same arguements. It is up to you if you decided to vote him out of your country.

The Church may espouse…

Tough…they should abide by the teachings of the Church…if they don’t like the church and want to protest, become a PROTESTant.

Now, get this straight. …I.

Good for you…You become a PROTESTant and I will become a Catholic…Zero sum game… everyone is happy. You are not the Pope, you don’t get to decide what is Church doctrine and if you want to you are not Roman Catholic. To be a Roman Catholic you MUST accept Chruch teaching if you do not then you can CLAIM to be a Roman Catholic, but it is the same as if a Wiccan or Baal worshiper says they are Catholic…All I can say is, Yeah…ok… Read you CCC…this is NOT a political issue it is a religious issue that Margaret Sanger made into a political issue…She espoused many Nazi values and is the founder of Planed Parenthoold. Look it up.

I do believe that MANY Republicans are against Abortions as well as Democrates and Green Peace candidates. This is not a PARTY issue it is a Candidates issue and it SHOULD be a Catholic issue. If a “Gold” Candidate believes that abortion is ok in cases of Rape and Incest but a “Silver” candidate holds that in no case should abortion be allowed. I would vote for the “Silver” candidate.

This is a LIFE and Sin issue…and a Catholic that is practicing the teaching of the Church will follow the magisterium, simple Church authority. The CCC is pretty clear on this…

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.

**1869 **Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. "Structures of sin" are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144

1873* The root of all sins lies in man’s heart. the kinds and the gravity of sins are determined *principally by their objects.

1874* To ****choose deliberately ***- that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.

144 John Paul II, RP 16.

With the above said. I have done my part to point out to you that which is wrong. You will, or will not accept this. I am charged in **1868 **to make sure that you know… Now it is up to you. You can no longer claim invincible ignorance you will now make a choice, like 50,000,000 other women, you will make a choice.

Tough CHOICE, but no matter what you will make one, even if you choose not to make one, you still have made a choice…

 

[DeaconDen]

I don’t have the time to review all 51 pages on this thread, but just in case no one has posted it , here is a link to the USCCB site that answers this question
usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf
It comes down to an informed conscience, and I can not read anyone else’s mind. I’ve formed mine and others form theirs and we may not agree.
It is not a black and white issue as some here may see it. Unbelievable flaming and excommunications flying about. All in the name of Christ.

another useful links from the US Bishops:
faithfulcitizenship.org/

 

[RobGeoAnthony]

Like I wrote above, I will not vote for Republicans. I vote my conscience. I will not be voting strictly on the issue of abortion. To vote solely on a single issue is assinine. I will not be putting liars of the ilk of Shrub or his pal, Dick back in office. In my state, Grassley is up for re-election. You know, the Senator from Iowa who lied about “Death Panels” that don’t exist “pulling the plug on Grandma”–a blantant lie that he got caught in. Just one in a series of lies that Republicans perpetuate on the people.

So, I will use the common sense God graced me with to pull the lever for Democrats because those folks work for the people rather than against them.

 

[estesbob]

One could interpret that many ways. Neither party coheres with all Catholic teaching. A prudential judgment must be made by informed consciences. As the Church teaches. You have no basis for condemning Catholics who voted according to their conscience by accusing them of ignoring or denying the Catechism or Church teaching. At the best, that is uncharitable.

A Catholic is required to form their conscience in accordance with the teachings of the Church. One could not do that and also vote for Obama unless they made a decision to put their politcal views ahead of their faith

 

[estesbob]

If I am not correct, then please tell me (and all Catholic in the U.S.) which political party are Catholics obliged to vote for, as part of their Catholic faith? Thanks.

The Church does not endorse any politcal party.

 

[lndknwls]

(Information based on “Priests For Life”)

If you believe in “abortion rights,” and knowingly and willfully vote for a candidate who promises to protect those “rights,” you have committed a sin. This is especially true for Catholics who have 2,000 years of Church teaching and tradition to back them up (Church’s teaching in the 2nd century). A voter who votes for a candidate who supports abortion has intentionally and deliberately helped someone who promotes a violent and destructive activity. That vote is similar in seriousness to participating in a pro-abortion rally, or writing an editorial that supports abortion.

These are the moral implications of voting. I once belonged to the Democrat Party, then I joined the Republican Party, and I now belong to the Constitution Party. However, my moral obligation is to keep out candidates who support abortion, usually Democrats; therefore, I often vote for Republicans who oppose abortion.

We can commit sin in the voting booth. Everything that we say or do either affirms or denies moral law. We are either getting closer to God, or farther away from Him. Everything that we say or do either strengthens us in virtue or enslaves us in vice. You cannot sing God’s praises in the choir and then say that you believe in abortion.

 

[RobGeoAnthony]

Number 883 is a few bricks shy of a full load. No, I will not become a Protestant because you are misinterpreting the teachings of the Catholic Church and are a demagogue and there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

As for President Kennedy, I will take that man any day because he actually worked for the greatest good. I couldn’t careless about his personal life, which incidentally, was a Hell of a lot more tame than that of certain Popes, like the Alexander, the Borgia who gave the Church his son, Ceasare and his daughter, Lucretia. My personal favorite, not a Borgia, was the miscreant who disentombed his predecessor and put him on trial, had the corpse found guilty, struck off the fingers of the hand that gave the papal blessing and beheaded the corpse, that of a deceased Pope no less. Or let’s take the case of Boniface VIII who conned Celestine, a hermit, before being elected Pope into abdicating/resigning and then imprisoned Celestine while he got his broad behind planted in the See of Peter.

Don’t lecture to me about President Kennedy or either of his brothers. None of those men forgot the Catholic teaching they received regardless of the failings of their personal lives.

If you desire to waste a vote on the likes of that emptyheaded ditz, formerly the Alaskan governor who did not serve out her term and is remarkable for such sterling comments as “Drill baby, drill” be my guest because you obviously have an attention span that can just comprehend assinine sound bites from a professional idiot like Sarah.

 

[estesbob]

Let us take the motto of this thread, “It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-abortion Candidates,” and look at it with (1) Church teaching and (2) common sense.

The answer is no it is not a sin. Our elected officials have a civic duty to fulfill–that is–following the law of the land. This question was put to President Kennedy when he was campaigning for the presidency in 1960 and that in terms of would Kennedy take his marching orders from the Pope. His reply was “No, he would follow the US Constitution and US law in running the nation if he were elected.” That is the right proper answer.

The Church may espouse a particular view on an issue of the law. That is its right in its teaching and moral and spiritual authority. The civil authority exists to ensure the orderly functioning of society. As a Catholic, I agree and support the Church’s view on abortion, but I do not, and will not, force my view on others because to do so negates the other parties’ Free Will. By that token, it is harassment of duly elected government officials to threaten excommunication, interdiction or censure because that elected official is following the law of the land.

Now, get this straight. I, therefore, will not vote for either Republican politicians or so-called Tea Party candidates solely on the issue of abortion. Both of those groups have a hidden agenda that is at odds with Gospel as preached by Jesus Christ. There is no concern for others and seeks the creation of an elite. There is a perverse dumbing down of the principle of Just War, i.e. The 2nd Iraqi War pursued for revenge and built on the lies of Weapons of Mass Destruction and bio-chemical warfare.

The Pope specifically said that ones view of the Iraqi war was not a proportionate reason to vote for a pro-abortion politician. You have built this fantasy view of of the Republican Party as the font of all evil and ironically used that to rationalze rejecting your Faith and voting to support an intrinsic evil.

 

[RobGeoAnthony]

lndknwls:
Well CPA2 I am just enthralled that you think of voting as a sin. Hell’s Bells anything can be a sin and that belief in and of itself is a sin because it presumes to know the mind of God.

In the voting booth you vote your conscience. I am not about to be lured into the trap of single issue voting.

I am voting for Democrats because they actually put the words of the Gospel into action and don’t merely spew platitudes like the Republicans who lied about the reasons for going to war in Iraq.

 

[RobGeoAnthony]

The Pope specifically said that ones view of the Iraqi war was not a proportionate reason to vote for a pro-abortion politician. You have built this fantasy view of of the Republican Party as the font of all evil and ironically used that to rationalze rejecting your Faith and voting to support an intrinsic evil.

=================================================================
Save it friend. I used a single example of the many reasons I don’t and won’t vote Republican.

Waste your vote on the likes of an oil stooge like Barton of Texas who called the $20 billion escrow account BP is setting up “slush fund.”

Next, don’t threaten me or anyone else with excommunication. I am voting my conscience for Democrats who can get the job done in Washington without bankrupting the country like that President Obama’s predecessor.did after inheriting a surplus from President Clinton.

 

[RobGeoAnthony]

Then, you are woefully misinformed.

The whole nation must be apostate in your wobbly view because the majority voted for President Obama. Now, why exactly is your slip showing over Obama? I seriously doubt it is for anything he thinks because he has been rather prudent in office. So that leaves skin color which means you are a bigot.

You vote for whomsoever you please. I will be voting for Democrats not Tea Party morons, backed by big money Republicans for their own purposes. It’s not a grassroots movement.