It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[CWBetts]

Then, you are woefully misinformed.

The whole nation must be apostate in your wobbly view because the majority voted for President Obama. Now, why exactly is your slip showing over Obama? I seriously doubt it is for anything he thinks because he has been rather prudent in office. So that leaves skin color which means you are a bigot.

You vote for whomsoever you please. I will be voting for Democrats not Tea Party morons, backed by big money Republicans for their own purposes. It’s not a grassroots movement.

Prudent in office? Are you out of your ever-loving mind??? He is driving up the debt so fast you can actually HEAR it!!! And he is still doing everything within his power to expand abortion and euthanasia (see health care bill). He has been anything but “prudent” he has been a typical tax and spend democrat, and is driving our country into ruin. I dare you to call me a bigot.

 

[DeaconDen]

Nothing Christian going on here. Arguments that produce more heat than light.
One may visit the link below for guidance.
The name of this forum itself is inflammatory and displays a gross ignorance on Church teaching. Yes, it MAY be a sin or it may NOT be a sin.
For me to comment on someone else’s conscience would require me to have mind reading abilities

usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf

 

[CWBetts]

Nothing Christian going on here. Arguments that produce more heat than light.
One may visit the link below for guidance.
The name of this forum itself is inflammatory and displays a gross ignorance on Church teaching. Yes, it MAY be a sin or it may NOT be a sin.
For me to comment on someone else’s conscience would require me to have mind reading abilities

usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf

Give me a break. No one one this thread has come close to showing that reasons they voted for Obama come even close to the gravity of abortion. Mot voted their pocketbook. Tell me, how much money is the life of a child worth?

 

[DeaconDen]

Give me a break. No one one this thread has come close to showing that reasons they voted for Obama come even close to the gravity of abortion. Mot voted their pocketbook. Tell me, how much money is the life of a child worth?

Just curious, I didn’t read anything in the Bishops statement that anyone HAD to show prove their reasoning to you or anyone else. Did I miss something? We will all have to account to God (only)

 

[estesbob]

Just curious, I didn’t read anything in the Bishops statement that anyone HAD to show prove their reasoning to you or anyone else. Did I miss something? We will all have to account to God (only)

Speaking for myself, I do not know any proportionate reason that could outweigh more than 40 million unborn children killed by abortion and the many millions of women deeply wounded by the loss and regret abortion creates.To suggest - as some Catholics do - that Senator Obama is this year’s ‘‘real’’ prolife candidate requires a peculiar kind of self-hypnosis, or moral confusion, or worse. To portray the 2008 Democratic Party presidential ticket as the preferred ‘‘prolife’’ option is to subvert what the word ‘‘prolife’’ means. Anyone interested in Senator Obama’s record on abortion and related issues should simply read Prof. Robert P. George’s Public Discourse essay from earlier this week, ‘‘Obama’s Abortion Extremism,’’ and his follow-up article, ‘‘Obama and Infanticide.’’ They say everything that needs to be said.

Archbishop Chaput

Can you show a statement from a single member of the Magestrium stateing there were proportionate reasons that would allow a Catholic t vote for Obama?

 

[DeaconDen]

*Speaking for myself, …
Archbishop Chaput

Can you show a statement from a single member of the Magestrium stateing there were proportionate reasons that would allow a Catholic t vote for Obama?*

I don’t have time to research and see no reason why I should have to

 

[CathFaith1]

Nothing Christian going on here.

In your judgment, is that exclusive to this thread or the entire forum?

 

[DeaconDen]

In your judgment, is that exclusive to this thread or the entire forum?

I’ve enjoyed reading other forums on this site, but this particular one:
It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates
is a Spy vs Spy flame battleground.
I believe it is possible to express views in a spirit of Christian charity.
Don’t see a lot of it here.
-Just my opinion.

 

[Alan55]

Speaking for myself, I do not know any proportionate reason that could outweigh more than 40 million unborn children killed by abortion and the many millions of women deeply wounded by the loss and regret abortion creates.To suggest - as some Catholics do - that Senator Obama is this year’s ‘‘real’’ prolife candidate requires a peculiar kind of self-hypnosis, or moral confusion, or worse. To portray the 2008 Democratic Party presidential ticket as the preferred ‘‘prolife’’ option is to subvert what the word ‘‘prolife’’ means. Anyone interested in Senator Obama’s record on abortion and related issues should simply read Prof. Robert P. George’s Public Discourse essay from earlier this week, ‘‘Obama’s Abortion Extremism,’’ and his follow-up article, ‘‘Obama and Infanticide.’’ They say everything that needs to be said.

Archbishop Chaput

Can you show a statement from a single member of the Magestrium stateing there were proportionate reasons that would allow a Catholic t vote for Obama?

If you cherry-pick your favorite arch-conservative bishops you can fashion a Catholic position that supports almost any position. Just for the record, Abp. Chaput does not represent either the Church or its Magisterium (outside his diocese). The US Catholic bishops, in their guidance to voters, pointedly avoiding saying that every Catholic should vote for Republican candidates or based on a single issue, even abortion. Individual bishops were far less restrained in their enthusiasm for Republicans, using abortion as a wedge issue.

Not drinking that Kool-Aid. Not voting for Republicans, particularly of the Tea Party brand.

 

[CathFaith1]

I’ve enjoyed reading other forums on this site, but this particular one:
It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates
is a Spy vs Spy flame battleground.
I believe it is possible to express views in a spirit of Christian charity.
Don’t see a lot of it here.
-Just my opinion.

Thank you Deacon.

 

[CWBetts]

Just curious, I didn’t read anything in the Bishops statement that anyone HAD to show prove their reasoning to you or anyone else. Did I miss something? We will all have to account to God (only)

Sounds like a cop-out, because deep down, you KNOW voting for a pro-abortion candidate for the sake of economics is nothing but a manifestation of greed and selfishness.

 

[CWBetts]

If you cherry-pick your favorite arch-conservative bishops you can fashion a Catholic position that supports almost any position. Just for the record, Abp. Chaput does not represent either the Church or its Magisterium (outside his diocese). The US Catholic bishops, in their guidance to voters, pointedly avoiding saying that every Catholic should vote for Republican candidates or based on a single issue, even abortion. Individual bishops were far less restrained in their enthusiasm for Republicans, using abortion as a wedge issue.

Not drinking that Kool-Aid. Not voting for Republicans, particularly of the Tea Party brand.

Actually, the bishops put forth a list of non-negotiable issues, wherein it was said that to vote for someone in favor of abortion, when a pro-life candidate was available is wrong. Rationalize all you want. A vote for BO was a vote for evil.

 

[DeaconDen]

Sounds like a cop-out, because deep down, you KNOW voting for a pro-abortion candidate for the sake of economics is nothing but a manifestation of greed and selfishness.

Let the mind reading begin…LOL

 

[DeaconDen]

Actually, the bishops put forth a list of non-negotiable issues, wherein it was said that to vote for someone in favor of abortion, when a pro-life candidate was available is wrong. Rationalize all you want. A vote for BO was a vote for evil.

Cite source please…

 

[estesbob]

If you cherry-pick your favorite arch-conservative bishops you can fashion a Catholic position that supports almost any position. Just for the record, Abp. Chaput does not represent either the Church or its Magisterium (outside his diocese). The US Catholic bishops, in their guidance to voters, pointedly avoiding saying that every Catholic should vote for Republican candidates or based on a single issue, even abortion. Individual bishops were far less restrained in their enthusiasm for Republicans, using abortion as a wedge issue.

Looks like you are Cherry picking yourself. here what the Bishops actually said"
*As Catholics we are not single-issue voters. A candidate’s position on a single *
*issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter’s support. **Yet a candidate’s position on a ***
***single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the ******promotion of racism, ***
***may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from ***receiving support.

Not drinking that Kool-Aid. Not voting for Republicans, particularly of the Tea Party brand.

If I am cherry picking you should have no problem finding a Bishop that agree’s there were proportionate reasons that would have allowed a catholic to vote for Obama.

I am always amused the way these dicsussions go:

Catholic Abortion supporter Canidate apologist:

“The Bishops were not specific enough”

Pro-life Catholic :

“Thats not true here what Bishop so and so specifically said”

Catholic Abortion supporter Canidate apologist :

“He was only speaking for himself”

The truth is if the magestrium had issued a statement saying you cant vote for Obama the Catholic Abortion supporter Canidate apologist’s would have claimed they were talking about another Obama.

A Catholic who voted for Obama either wilfully disregarded the teachngs of the Church or did not do due diligence in seeking out the Church’s teachings on abortion and voting.

 

[Alan55]

The sweeping changes in social plans in the government enslaves the people, making them wholly dependent on the government. Yes the poor should be cared for, but not at the expense of their dignity.

The current administration is not enslaving people or making them wholly dependent on the government. What a crock…

 

[estesbob]

The current administration is not enslaving people or making them wholly dependent on the government. What a crock…

But it does support unrestricted taxpayer funded aboriton in demand and has released US funds to pay for abortions and ,often forced, sterilizations overseas.

 

[Alan55]

Actually, the bishops put forth a list of non-negotiable issues, wherein it was said that to vote for someone in favor of abortion, when a pro-life candidate was available is wrong. Rationalize all you want. A vote for BO was a vote for evil.

For the second time in this thread, I quote from the document provided in 2007 by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops to guide Catholic voters:

Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship: A Call to Political Responsibility from the Catholic Bishops of the United States (USCCB 2007):

1. Two temptations in public life can distort the Church’s defense of human life and dignity:
2. The first is a moral equivalence that makes no ethical distinctions between different kinds of issues involving human life and dignity. The direct and intentional destruction of innocent human life from the moment of conception until natural death is always wrong and is not just one issue among many. It must always be opposed.
3. The second is the misuse of these necessary moral distinctions as a way of dismissing or ignoring other serious threats to human life and dignity. Racism and other unjust discrimination, the use of the death penalty, resorting to unjust war, the use of torture, war crimes, the failure to respond to those who are suffering from hunger or a lack of health care, or an unjust immigration policy are all serious moral issues that challenge our consciences and require us to act. These are not optional concerns which can be dismissed. Catholics are urged to seriously consider Church teaching on these issues. Although choices about how best to respond to these and other compelling threats to human life and dignity are matters for principled debate and decision, this does not make them optional concerns or permit Catholics to dismiss or ignore Church teaching on these important issues. Clearly not every Catholic can be actively involved on each of these concerns, but we need to support one another as our community of faith defends human life and dignity wherever it is threatened. We are not factions, but one family of faith fulfilling the mission of Jesus Christ.

The bishops taught that Catholics should avoid single-issue voting. Voting for Democratic candidates – including Obama – is morally permissible. I am aware of Church teaching on the subject. I’ll continue to vote for Democratic candidates, thank you very much.

 

[Lypher]

Number 883 is a few bricks shy of a full load. No, I will not become a Protestant because you are misinterpreting the teachings of the Catholic Church and are a demagogue and there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church…

The CCC is Pretty Clear…Twist all you want…a vote for death in Life is a vote for death in Spirit.

I never made the claim their is no salvation outside the Catholic church. You are just trying to change the subject. The CCC says their IS salvation outside the Catholic Church for those that are Invincibly Ignorant… Might apply to you…although many people have provided a lot of information to you concerning this subject. That judgment will be made by God and I have NO idea how he will decide.

As for President Kennedy, I will take that man any day because he actually worked for the greatest good. I couldn’t careless about his personal life, which incidentally, was a Hell of a lot more tame than that of certain Popes, like the Alexander, the Borgia who gave the Church his son, Ceasare and his daughter, Lucretia. My personal favorite, not a Borgia, was the miscreant who disentombed his predecessor and put him on trial, had the corpse found guilty, struck off the fingers of the hand that gave the papal blessing and beheaded the corpse, that of a deceased Pope no less. Or let’s take the case of Boniface VIII who conned Celestine, a hermit, before being elected Pope into abdicating/resigning and then imprisoned Celestine while he got his broad behind planted in the See of Peter…

All men can be Evil, I just would choose to pick a better example to follow… I guess you could pick any one of the twelve Apostles and try to follow that example and hold it up to the world and say I follow Apostle (X), I like Paul. Some others might actually try and make a claim that Judas was OK to pattern their life, except for the very end. I would choose otherwise… each of us has free will…

Don’t lecture to me about President Kennedy or either of his brothers. None of those men forgot the Catholic teaching they received regardless of the failings of their personal lives…

You are absolutely correct that they never forgot their Catholic teaching… To each of us we will have to account for our actions… Obviously I have no idea what God’s Judgment will be, but they do have a lot of sins that will need to be looked at. Maybe fewer then me, maybe not, but I am pretty confident that held up next to Vatican proclaimed Saint they have more… That is IF you believe that the Church can make calls on this subject. With your comments with regards to the Church’s ability to make calls on faith and morals, but then NOT accept them. I don’t know what to say. I guess I could call myself a tree if I want, but others just might not believe me.

If you desire to waste a vote on the likes of that empty headed ditz, formerly the Alaskan governor who did not serve out her term and is remarkable for such sterling comments as “Drill baby, drill” be my guest because you obviously have an attention span that can just comprehend assinine sound bites from a professional idiot like Sarah.

I NEVER told you who I would vote for… and I vote ALL sides of the political spectrum. I am NOT so simple minded or politically wedded to a party as you. I follow the teachings of my faith and then look at the candidates that can best create the moral conditions I want my children to live in. If you choose to vote for death I will not JUDGE the outcome of that decision with regards to what God will or will not do, but I can JUDGE that sin…and IAW the CCC as I pointed out in previous posts we are required to show you. You have been shown what the CCC says so really brother you have knowledge and you are making a Choice. I wish I could find candidates that were Pro-Life and Pro-Immigrant…but I am having a hard time. That being said I have to weigh the gravity of the votes my candidate will have with regards to severity. As much as I want the social justice for immigrants seeking a better life I CANNOT vote for a Pro-Death candidate as Millions of lives are more significant when compared to immigration. Find me a Blue Dog Democrat in my District and I would likely vote that way… They are few these days.

 

[Lypher]

The Pope specifically said that ones view of the Iraqi war was not a proportionate reason to vote for a pro-abortion politician. You have built this fantasy view of of the Republican Party as the font of all evil and ironically used that to rationalze rejecting your Faith and voting to support an intrinsic evil.

How true Bob… unfortunately he might be eating Ala carte?