It is a Sin to Vote for Pro-Abortion Candidates

[diggerdomer]

What does it matter who’s more vulnerable?

No matter which you choose, in such a ridiculously hypothetical situation, they are both entirely created and loved by God, and have no difference in their inherent worth.

 

[elts1956]

Wait…you’re saying that following the teaching of the USCCB is a personal thing, while following the teaching of someone from a TV show is universally catholic and obligatory?

HELP?

I wish someone would take a poll of the 56% of catholics (small c) who decided by reading the USCCB document on “faithful” voting they could obliterate the issue of bo and abortion from their mind and choose to vote for whatever issue they considered to be of utmost importance rationalizing, they were not DIRECTLY voting for abortion but for another proportional issue. What was proportionate to abortion?. Economics? Why, the number of adults and children involved? The environment? The abuse of our God given planet? Are these “fixed” yet? And yes, I am saying the USCCB document on voting was a convoluted mess, the result of poor catechesis for the past forty or fifty years. And yes, I will listen to those who speak with clarity and understand there is a hierarchy of good and evil. Abortion is at the apex of evil.

The relativity and proportionalism of thought of catholics who voted for bo is outstanding. And those who think this way are no HELP to the cause of life from conception to natural death…

 

[elts1956]

No matter which you choose, in such a ridiculously hypothetical situation, they are both entirely created and loved by God, and have no difference in their inherent worth.

They are of equal worth because they were created by God Almighty. Why do you think we have the Commandment, Thou Shalt Not Kill? Kill who? Who can we allow to be killed and who should we protect? The situations I stated are not hypothetical when you replace disabled, or the drowning adult or child with unborn vulnerable baby. I do believe digger that you operate on out of sight, out of mind. You can’t see the unborn, so you don’t believe they need to be protected. Correct me if I am wrong. I am sure you will whether I am wrong or right.

 

[elts1956]

No matter which you choose, in such a ridiculously hypothetical situation, they are both entirely created and loved by God, and have no difference in their inherent worth.

Wait…you’re saying that following the teaching of the USCCB is a personal thing, while following the teaching of someone from a TV show is universally catholic and obligatory?

HELP?

I did not say the Bishops chose their teachings to be of personal discrimination. But because of lack of clarity that is what half of the catholics here in the US thought they could do. Clarity digger. Clarity.

 

[elts1956]

I don’t have the time to review all 51 pages on this thread, but just in case no one has posted it , here is a link to the USCCB site that answers this question
usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf A quagmire of relativity.
It comes down to an informed conscience, and I can not read anyone else’s mind. I’ve formed mine and others form theirs and we may not agree.
It is not a black and white issue as some here may see it. Unbelievable flaming and excommunications flying about. All in the name of Christ.

another useful links from the US Bishops:
faithfulcitizenship.org/

Do you, or do you not believe in ABSOLUTE TRUTH? Do you or do you not believe in hierarchies of good and evil? Did Pope John Paul II say in Evangelium Vitae the most serious and INTRINSIC evil in existence today is abortion? Did he, or did he not say that? Did he, or did he not say, “A nation that kills its own children is a nation without hope”?

 

[Pitcharan]

(Information based on “Priests For Life”)

If you believe in “abortion rights,” and knowingly and willfully vote for a candidate who promises to protect those “rights,” you have committed a sin. This is especially true for Catholics who have 2,000 years of Church teaching and tradition to back them up (Church’s teaching in the 2nd century). A voter who votes for a candidate who supports abortion has intentionally and deliberately helped someone who promotes a violent and destructive activity. That vote is similar in seriousness to participating in a pro-abortion rally, or writing an editorial that supports abortion.

These are the moral implications of voting. I once belonged to the Democrat Party, then I joined the Republican Party, and I now belong to the Constitution Party. However, my moral obligation is to keep out candidates who support abortion, usually Democrats; therefore, I often vote for Republicans who oppose abortion.

We can commit sin in the voting booth. Everything that we say or do either affirms or denies moral law. We are either getting closer to God, or farther away from Him. Everything that we say or do either strengthens us in virtue or enslaves us in vice. You cannot sing God’s praises in the choir and then say that you believe in abortion.

What if I don’t believe in abortion rights while all political parties and their candidates support abortion rights; whom do I vote? This is the hard reality in India!

Pitcharan

 

[elts1956]

What if I don’t believe in abortion rights while all political parties and their candidates support abortion rights; whom do I vote? This is the hard reality in India!

Pitcharan

The Bishops have stated we Catholics have a duty to vote. When such an instance as yours comes up, we can look at the other issues of each candidate, how they stand, what we agree with and choose from that to vote. I am terribly sorry you are in such a quandry. But you do realize the evil of abortion. Many catholics here in the US don’t.

 

[CallistusPM]

Cmatt, Digger, D. Dan, I have observed this thread and you post with some intrest. I find that in all you post you are addament that those bad old Repubs. are out to destroy you way of life while those glorius Dems ride to the rescue. Political hocum rules the day. If there was a real difference in either party economically or any other way, except life issues, it would be lost in the load of **** put out by washington and the power behind the throne, so to speak. I am not an educated man by todays standards, but have lived a productive life as a farmer and trucker. I have seen a lot of water go under the bridge when both parties were in power. The only real difference in the two is LIFE ISSUES. I have seen this trying to be explained in the positive light of church teaching, by elts, cwbetts, lypher, and others, to you with all kinds of spin being put into play to justify your Dem. leanings, you twist Jesus into something unimportant by saying, FORCE SOMEONE ELSE TO BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE, or A BIG TENT GOSPEL THAT COVERS EVERYONE DIFFERENTLY. What a load of ****.
Your post tell me that you are first, last and always A DEMOCRAT. every other thing comes after that, including Jesus. I am not trying to cut you in any way, however if I saw you about to step on a copperhead, I most certainly would try to warn you in order to save your life. Our const. guarantes first LIFE. Without that no other rights are important. That fundamental right is being denide to a whole generation of our people. This in the land of the free. That very thought is abhorrent to an athiest I know and is found in no other species on the planet. The fact that a child is murdered and you give your vote to those who espouse such an evil boggles the mind. All other animals on earth will die to protect their babies in and out of the womb. In a country that has been given the best of everything by the GREAT GOD OF ABRAHAM, the true GOD, and through his SON JESUS given LIFE forever has a law and PARTY that wishes and supports death not only for its own citizens, but under this admin. to export death to others in foreign lands by using my taxes to pay for it. IT is PURE EVIL. Wake up people. You are being lead down the garden path by lucifer himself. Hitler and his minions were not as bad. Only 11 million under him. 50 plus million by the party of death. You don`t actually believe that the good GOD will allow this to go unpunished, do you?

 I am and have been all my long life a democrat. I will vote for a prolife democrat. They are few and far between, that will actually stand up for all americans, born or unborn. There is one thing politician believe. If they lose they change. Thats the only thing they [either party] understand. Do you want to bring the party back to its roots or are you happy with the homosexual, abortion, agenda put forth by the present people in charge. If they lose they change. How hard is that to understand. THEY LOSE, THEY CHANGE.  I pray that hearts of people will change and love and protection will be granted to all our people from conception to natural death. No other way is acceptable to GOD or his CHURCH. If you espouse any other way, your fooling yourself and denighing LIFE to the most vunerable of our citizens. If you think JESUS would authorize killing one child, your wrong. If you think voteing for a prodeath candidate is justifiable to him, your wrong. I pray your hearts and minds will open to the truth of this before you pass to the judgement. Woe to him who calls good, evil and evil, good.  Do not be political, but BE  CHRISTIAN, FIRST LAST AND ALWAYS.

OH deacon Dan, if you think your post say you are prolife you need to go back and read them again. Blessings Garland. RCIA Dir. for my parish

 

[CallistusPM]

21June: St. Aloysius Gonzaga, C
The Tridentine Mass: The Most Beautiful Thing This Side Of Heaven

Everyone responding in this forum step back a minute. What do you see? A topic which has turned political. We have migrated away from the main subject and are dwelling on conservative vs liberal; Democrats vs Republicans.
The main topic has been thoroughly scrutinized and we are splitting hairs and beating a dead horse. Let’s move on and close this topic. Amen!!!

 

[estesbob]

21June: St. Aloysius Gonzaga, C
The Tridentine Mass: The Most Beautiful Thing This Side Of Heaven

Everyone responding in this forum step back a minute. What do you see? A topic which has turned political. We have migrated away from the main subject and are dwelling on conservative vs liberal; Democrats vs Republicans.
The main topic has been thoroughly scrutinized and we are splitting hairs and beating a dead horse. Let’s move on and close this topic. Amen!!!

At the top of the page there is a “Threads Tools” menu. You can unsubscribe from the thread there which is the best way to leave a thread who’s topic you no longer want to discuss.

 

[CMatt25]

I wish someone would take a poll of the 56% of catholics (small c) who decided by reading the USCCB document on “faithful” voting they could obliterate the issue of bo and abortion from their mind and choose to vote for whatever issue they considered to be of utmost importance rationalizing, they were not DIRECTLY voting for abortion but for another proportional issue. What was proportionate to abortion?. Economics? Why, the number of adults and children involved? The environment? The abuse of our God given planet? Are these “fixed” yet?

The relativity and proportionalism of thought of catholics who voted for bo is outstanding. And those who think this way are no HELP to the cause of life from conception to natural death…

Christ would love small “c” you know. 56% of universals. Afterall it was He Whom created the universal Church! Big “C” doesn’t even appear in writing until about 8 decades after He went to be seated at the right hand of God.

The so called “pro life” side had yrs to mess up Christ’s world. It will take more than 18 mos to fix it. More once the so-called “pro life” folks gain legislative seats.

Christ taught for righteousness to serve the hungry, the thirsty, the homeless, to care for the sick. He taught blessed are the peacemakers. So ok then serving the poor, the downtrodden, the sick, the hungry, the thirsty, the homeless, the jobless, those without adequate affordable health care, striving to end war, and throw in concern for God’s environment, and they have nothing to do with lives from conception to death? REALLY? How many people already have been or will be born into the world whose lives need helped? The fact is these things help life for much longer than just for 9 mos. Peace.

 

[CWBetts]

Christ would love small “c” you know. 56% of universals. Afterall it was He Whom created the universal Church! Big “C” doesn’t even appear in writing until about 8 decades after He went to be seated at the right hand of God.

The so called “pro life” side had yrs to mess up Christ’s world. It will take more than 18 mos to fix it. More once the so-called “pro life” folks gain legislative seats.

Christ taught for righteousness to serve the hungry, the thirsty, the homeless, to care for the sick. He taught blessed are the peacemakers. So ok then serving the poor, the downtrodden, the sick, the hungry, the thirsty, the homeless, the jobless, those without adequate affordable health care, striving to end war, and throw in concern for God’s environment, and they have nothing to do with lives from conception to death? REALLY? How many people already have been or will be born into the world whose lives need helped? The fact is these things help life for much longer than just for 9 mos. Peace.

So you are saying it is better to murder the helpless than to let them participate in the Salvation of Christ?

 

[CMatt25]

So you are saying it is better to murder the helpless than to let them participate in the Salvation of Christ?

I am not saying that at all. And neither is anyone else. What we are saying is no candidate is perfect and there is far more than one life issue to consider and it is not a sin to vote for candidates based on those other issues. And that’s all. God bless you on your faith journey and peace be with you always.

 

[CWBetts]

I am not saying that at all. And neither is anyone else. What we are saying is no candidate is perfect and there is far more than one life issue to consider and it is not a sin to vote for candidates based on those other issues. And that’s all. God bless you on your faith journey and peace be with you always.

Would it be a sin to vote for someone who had what you considered a good economic plan, bur called for the extermination of those of Scottish descent (I chose this group because I ,myself am largely Scottish, I bear the Scots no ill will whatsoever)? Why or why not?

 

[CMatt25]

Would it be a sin to vote for someone who had what you considered a good economic plan, bur called for the extermination of those of Scottish descent (I chose this group because I ,myself am largely Scottish, I bear the Scots no ill will whatsoever)? Why or why not?

I trust you do realize the economy was not the sole reason why someone might have voted for Obama. There are uninsured Americans who can not afford adequate healthcare. Or who have been unable to get coverage due to pre-existing conditions. The other side had ample time to close that loophole but funny thing they never seemed to bring it up when they were in charge prior to 2007. War. All sorts of things realted to life besides only the economy.

I assume you’re referring to Scottish as yourself with a certain soul? Again apples and oranges. Black and white vs gray. As such your question is not even worthy of further answer. Nor is this thread. God bless and peace.

 

[CWBetts]

I trust you do realize the economy was not the sole reason why someone might have voted for Obama. There are uninsured Americans who can not afford adequate healthcare. Or who have been unable to get coverage due to pre-existing conditions. The other side had ample time to close that loophole but funny thing they never seemed to bring it up when they were in charge prior to 2007. War. All sorts of things realted to life besides only the economy.

I assume you’re referring to Scottish as yourself with a certain soul? Again apples and oranges. Black and white vs gray. As such your question is not even worthy of further answer. Nor is this thread. God bless and peace.

You say it is not worthy of an answer, because you do not like where it will lead. If it is OK to vote for a candidate who is 100% behind abortion, then it would also be OK to vote for a candidate who wishes to target another segment of the population for death. I have said before and I will say again that there exist no issue, or combination of issues, that is equal in gravity to the single issue of abortion.

 

[estesbob]

You say it is not worthy of an answer, because you do not like where it will lead. If it is OK to vote for a candidate who is 100% behind abortion, then it would also be OK to vote for a candidate who wishes to target another segment of the population for death. I have said before and I will say again that there exist no issue, or combination of issues, that is equal in gravity to the single issue of abortion.

He cant answer without his whole thesis crumbling about him.

 

[CMatt25]

You say it is not worthy of an answer, because you do not like where it will lead. If it is OK to vote for a candidate who is 100% behind abortion, then it would also be OK to vote for a candidate who wishes to target another segment of the population for death. I have said before and I will say again that there exist no issue, or combination of issues, that is equal in gravity to the single issue of abortion.

Wrong again. It is not worthy of an answer because you won’t accept the truth that we do not know when human ensoulment occurs in the womb. You can pretend otherwise and kid yourself all you want. But that my friend is a matter of faith. And you can not lead to anywhere else because a democratic society thru its govt and its courts have come up with a law of land. So for instance don’t even try to say what if someone does not believe ensoulment occurs until the moment of birth. Roe v Wade was settled nearly 4 decades ago. It’s the law of the land. Get over it already and start to focus on the things Christ actually spoke of. While you’re at it the door’s always open if you want to work to make abortion rarer. Half a loaf my friend is better than none in an imperfect world.

And no estesbob, it is not going to lead to any crumbling.of a thesis because the thesis is ensoulment is a matter of faith… which it is!

There is nothing more to say because when the other party doesn’t know the difference between faith and actual certain knowledge, and can not see a multitude of life issues rather than one, can not see the forest thru one single tree, further discussion is fruitless. God bless you all on your journeys of faith and peace.

 

[Pitcharan]

The Bishops have stated we Catholics have a duty to vote. When such an instance as yours comes up, we can look at the other issues of each candidate, how they stand, what we agree with and choose from that to vote. I am terribly sorry you are in such a quandry. But you do realize the evil of abortion. Many catholics here in the US don’t.

Most of us do realize the evil of abortion, thanks to people like Mother Teresa who have enlightened society (not just catholics but all) on the subject (gargaro.com/mother_teresa/quotes.html). But our Bishops need to do more in guiding the flock.

Pitcharan

 

[CWBetts]

Wrong again. It is not worthy of an answer because you won’t accept the truth that we do not know when human ensoulment occurs in the womb. You can pretend otherwise and kid yourself all you want. But that my friend is a matter of faith. And you can not lead to anywhere else because a democratic society thru its govt and its courts have come up with a law of land. So for instance don’t even try to say what if someone does not believe ensoulment occurs until the moment of birth. Roe v Wade was settled nearly 4 decades ago. It’s the law of the land. Get over it already and start to focus on the things Christ actually spoke of. While you’re at it the door’s always open if you want to work to make abortion rarer. Half a loaf my friend is better than none in an imperfect world.

And no estesbob, it is not going to lead to any crumbling.of a thesis because the thesis is ensoulment is a matter of faith… which it is!

There is nothing more to say because when the other party doesn’t know the difference between faith and actual certain knowledge, and can not see a multitude of life issues rather than one, can not see the forest thru one single tree, further discussion is fruitless. God bless you all on your journeys of faith and peace.

ensoulment is irrelevant. Life begins at conception. We are duty-bound to protect live from conception until natural death. To no be opposed to al abortions is to be opposed to the Church.