"It is finished"?

[Isa_Almisry]

What did saying that prove?



I’m still waiting for a counter-example to the meaning of τε-τελε-σ-ται.

BTW: are you coming or going from the moon?

Or barking at it?

We can thank Anselm for this jurisdical atonement theory, which gives OSAS and the like their thunder.

So, I’m interested in whom Moondweller thinks got the payment of “It is finished”?

It seems Christ was still busy, as He went to the depths of Hell to preach to the Spirits and despoil it, and to the Hights of Heaven to the Holy of Holies to offer that Blood.

 

[moondweller]

Huiou Theou:

What did saying that prove?

It makes a concrete point. It was on the cross, not subsequent to it, that Jesus said the words. Not after He rose from the dead; not after He ascended back into heaven; not after sitting down at the right hand of God - but while on the cross.

I’m still waiting for a counter-example to the meaning of tetelestai.

You don’t need a “counter-example” but a definition:From the root word telos and the primary word tello; to end, that is, complete, execute, conclude, discharge (a debt): - accomplish, make an end, expire, fill up, finish, go over, pay, perform (Strong). The same root word is used in Matt. 13:53; 19:1; 26:1; 2 Tim. 4:7; Rev. 10:7; 11:7; 20:5. His sacrificial death accomplished, finished what the Father sent Him into this world to do in respect to His work as a suffering Servant (Is. 53). After His resurrection He said to the men whom He interrupted on their way to Emmaus:

Luke 24:25-27 "…“O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures. That is, those Scriptures which revealed Himself as the suffering Messiah and His work of redemption, reconciliation and propitiation through His sacrificial death. IOW, He explained to them the cross and the work He was sent to do and finished by His sacrificial death. “Tetelestai” is the Victor’s cry! See Jn. 4:34; Jn. 17:4; Rom. 10:4: Gal. 3:13; Heb. 10:5-10.

BTW: are you coming or going from the moon?

My house sits on the side of a mountain called “Moon.” Hence the name “moondweller.” I am constantly coming to and going from my home. :tiphat:​

 

[moondweller]

Isa Almisry:

Sooo He didn’t enter the more perfect tabernacle not made with hands to offer His Own Blood after He said “It is finished,” so that we may enter the Holy of Holies to stir up love and good works? Heb. 9:11-2, 10:19-25.

Yes, He did enter the heavenly Tabernacle, but He didn’t offer His blood He presented it.Heb 9:24-28 "For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a {mere} copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself (IOW, “it is finished”). And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this {comes} judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many (IOW, “it is finished”) will appear a second time for salvation without {reference to} sin, to those who eagerly await Him.You’re right in that He entered the heavenly Tabernacle AFTER He said “it is finished.” But I disagree that He entered it for the reason that “we may enter the Holy of Holies to stir up love and good works?”

Jesus accomplished three works on the cross. One being sinward, one manward and one Godward. His work of redemption was the perfect Divine solution for sin. Reconciliation the perfect Divine solution for the sinner. Propitiation the perfect Divine solution for the offended holiness of God because of sin.

A definition of propitiation is: *The offering of a gift or sacrifice of sufficient value in order that the wrath of another might be fully satisfied.*1 Jn. 2:2 “And He Himself is the propitiation (complete satisfaction) for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world”

1 Jn. 4:10 "In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation (complete satisfaction) for our sins."Propitiation undertakes the problem of an offended God. The death of Christ satisfied God’s anger toward a sinful world and averted His wrath, thereby, enabling God to receive into His family those who place their faith in the One who satisfied Him (Jesus Christ). The propitiated one (in this case, God) is the one whose wrath has been turned into pleasure by the offering of a gift so desirable that he can no longer find reason to continue in anger. The propitiatory gift, designed to turn away the wrath of the offended one, must precede the offender. Christ is Himself the priceless GIFT of PROPITIATION, so therefore, it was necessary for Him to precede us sinners into the presence of God. If we were to go before the Gift had been accepted, we would have been slain (Heb. 10:19-20).

Jesus, on the cross, offered Himself without blemish to God, and after His bodily resurrection entered the heavenly, holy place (through His own blood) for us, once for all, having obtained eternal redemption (Heb. 9:11-22). The propitiatory gift of Christ (through His shed blood) preceded us into heaven and thereby procuring the assurance of the believer’s entrance into the presence of God without fear of Divine wrath. First through prayer while we’re still on earth (Heb. 4:16), and then upon death going immediately and directly into His presence (2 Cor. 5:6-8).

The propitiatory work of Christ on the cross is another confirmation of the believer’s eternal security. It is another reason that “there is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 8:1).

So how do we “always carrying about in the Body the dying of the Lord Jesus,…?” II Cor. 4:10-12.

Paul said this in reference to the persecution he and his companions, and the other Apostles, endured taking the word of reconciliation to the Jews and Gentiles.2 Cor 4:7-12 "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves; {we are} afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus (that is, having, like Jesus, the sentence of death constantly hanging over them), so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh (It was made obvious that it was the resurrected Christ who sustained them). So death works in us, but life in you."Death would eventualy catch up to the Apostles for the sake of the gospel, but the preaching of it would bring life eternal to those who believed.

 

[moondweller]

Or barking at it?

We can thank Anselm for this jurisdical atonement theory, which gives OSAS and the like their thunder.

So, I’m interested in whom Moondweller thinks got the payment of “It is finished”?

It seems Christ was still busy, as He went to the depths of Hell to preach to the Spirits and despoil it, and to the Hights of Heaven to the Holy of Holies to offer that Blood.

He didn’t preach anything, He proclaimed His triumph over sin and death. He didn’t offer His blood in heaven He presented it. His “offering” was done on earth and was accepted, confirmed by His subsequent bodily resurrection and ascension back to glory.

 

[Foreigner]

What exactly did Jesus mean by these words?

I always thought it meant that his suffering was done. His time on earth, and what he came to do here, was done.
My Baptist friends try to tell that it means Jesus did all there was to do for us. All our sins are forgiven and that is that. We don’t have to do anything more but believe.
Please help me respond to them with what Jesus really meant.

From the same Gospel:

Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. (John 4:34).

You are right, the Baptist is wrong.

Jesus is still not finished doing everything there is to do. That is why he has us servants running around doing HIS WORK in his name.