"It is finished"?

[cydonian]

What exactly did Jesus mean by these words?

I always thought it meant that his suffering was done. His time on earth, and what he came to do here, was done.
My Baptist friends try to tell that it means Jesus did all there was to do for us. All our sins are forgiven and that is that. We don’t have to do anything more but believe.
Please help me respond to them with what Jesus really meant.

 

[jean8]

What exactly did Jesus mean by these words?

I always thought it meant that his suffering was done. His time on earth, and what he came to do here, was done.
My Baptist friends try to tell that it means Jesus did all there was to do for us. All our sins are forgiven and that is that. We don’t have to do anything more but believe.
Please help me respond to them with what Jesus really meant.

God the Father did not turn away from Christ on the cross. See Ps.22:1

God bless,
jean8

 

[patrick457]

What exactly did Jesus mean by these words?

I always thought it meant that his suffering was done. His time on earth, and what he came to do here, was done.
My Baptist friends try to tell that it means Jesus did all there was to do for us. All our sins are forgiven and that is that. We don’t have to do anything more but believe.
Please help me respond to them with what Jesus really meant.

There are various interpretations of this word (more accurately translated as “Completed” or “Done”, without any added nuance):

1.) One view, popularized by Scott Hahn, is that Jesus is here referring to the fourth cup at Passover. The ‘sour wine’ that Jesus drank served as the fourth cup (the drinking of which He had skipped at the Last Supper, or so this interpretation holds), thus in this interpretation, Jesus has ‘completed’ or ‘finished’ the Passover while on the cross.

2.) Another interpretation holds that Jesus shows here that He is the master of His own fate in that He has laid down His life by His own will. St. Augustine says thus:

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished." What, but all that prophecy had foretold so long before? And then, because nothing now remained that still required to be done before He died, as if He, who had power to lay down His life and to take it up again, had at length completed all for whose completion He was waiting, “He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.” Who can thus sleep when he pleases, as Jesus died when He pleased? Who is there that thus puts off his garment when he pleases, as He put off His flesh at His pleasure? Who is there that thus departs when he pleases, as He departed this life at His pleasure? How great the power, to be hoped for or dreaded, that must be His as judge, if such was the power He exhibited as a dying man!

However, even if Jesus meant that ‘The work of redemption is done’, that does not mean that it was all finished on the cross; Jesus still needed to rise from the dead to truly finish His work of redemption!

Paul says that: “Christ our Passover lamb is sacrificed for us: therefore let us keep the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth." (1 Corinthians 5:7)

He does not say “Christ our Passover lamb is sacrificed for us: let us do nothing any more but just believe,” He says “keep the feast.”

 

[mammallama]

Thanks for asking that question.I have nothing to add,just reading and learning.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I second the recommendation to read the Scott Hahn article linked by Patrick 457. Also, remember, just because you discover one meaning of a verse, it does not mean you have exhausted all meanings of that verse. Scripture is much deeper and richer, and there could be several meanings to a passage!!

 

[cydonian]

Thank you for suggesting the Scott Hahn article!
That helps me alot!

 

[colliric]

I always thought these words by Christ refer to the fact that at his Crucifixion the Salvational plan of God came to a sense of full Fruition because it was the Moment that the “ruler of this world” was judged… it is perhaps better translated as “it is accomplished”(or “Done”) as others have stated.

 

[Skip_Wiley]

What exactly did Jesus mean by these words?

I always thought it meant that his suffering was done. His time on earth, and what he came to do here, was done.
My Baptist friends try to tell that it means Jesus did all there was to do for us. All our sins are forgiven and that is that. We don’t have to do anything more but believe.
Please help me respond to them with what Jesus really meant.

I found the bolded words to be the most telling.

You say that you don’t know what Jesus meant, you just know that whatever Baptists say must be wrong.

So, are you really interested in finding out what Jesus meant? Or do you just want to defeat Baptists in a debate to convince yourself that Catholicism must be right?

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Or do you just want to defeat Baptists in a debate to convince yourself that Catholicism must be right?

Perhaps, he is a Catholic who has seen and understood enough of the 2000 year consistent teaching of the Church to know that the Church has the fullness of the truth?

Perhaps he knows that Jesus founded the Church so when in doubt he naturally runs to the Church Jesus founded, the Catholic Church.

Sounds like he is prudent and secure knowing that the gates of hell, disorder and error, will not penetrate the Church’s teachings on faith and morals and seeks to help his fellow Christians who lack the fullness of the truth. There is where the frustration lies. To see so many who are hard hearted to the truth because they were raised in ecclesial communities founded by fallen men is a source of continuing sadness for Catholics and why so many theologians have pondered how the mercy of God may one day be extended to them as they are outside the normative means of reconciliation with Christ.

He is right to be upset, but not as you imply, but in fear and trembling of their salvation.

peace

 

[Skip_Wiley]

Perhaps, he is a Catholic who has seen and understood enough of the 2000 year consistent teaching of the Church to know that the Church has the fullness of the truth?

And that’s exactly what I mean. How can he know that your church has the “fullness of the truth” (a fancy way of saying “NAH NAH NAH I’m in the special club and you’re not!”) when he doesn’t even know what the truth is?

Perhaps he knows that Jesus founded the Church so when in doubt he naturally runs to the Church Jesus founded, the Catholic Church.

Again, this is exactly what I’m talking about. Does he really want to know what Jesus meant? Or does he just want to go to the Catholic church and find out what they want him to believe Jesus meant?

Sounds like he is prudent and secure knowing that the gates of hell, disorder and error, will not penetrate the Church’s teachings on faith and morals and seeks to help his fellow Christians who lack the fullness of the truth.

If he was being prudent, then he wouldn’t have said “help me defeat the Christians” but “I’m seeking to find out what the Bible says about this”.
(Edited)

 

[Church_Militant]

I found the bolded words to be the most telling.

You say that you don’t know what Jesus meant, you just know that whatever Baptists say must be wrong.

So, are you really interested in finding out what Jesus meant? Or do you just want to defeat Baptists in a debate to convince yourself that Catholicism must be right?

Maybe if some Baptists didn’t trash talk the Catholic faith so much then such problems wouldn’t come up so much.

I know because I was Southern Baptist and nearly went into their ministry. I still have some Baptists that I know and some I used to know who just couldn’t see me and not have some kind of wise remark to make about my faith. It got real old after about the 2nd time, believe me.

The few times we actually got into these kind of discussions, I pretty well proved that not only did they not know much about the Catholic faith, but that I also knew the Word of God better than they did, which seemed to surprise them.

Still, they seemed to think of this as their way of “witnessing” to me and now I simply treat it as a chance to counter evangelize and educate them. If they don’t like it…maybe they shouldn’t bring it up.

What exactly did Jesus mean by these words?

I always thought it meant that his suffering was done. His time on earth, and what he came to do here, was done.

You’re right my friend.

My Baptist friends try to tell that it means Jesus did all there was to do for us. All our sins are forgiven and that is that.

They are also right so far as this goes.

We don’t have to do anything more but believe.

This is where they go way wrong. here they are telling you about their belief in the errant doctrine of “Sola Fide”, (“Faith Alone”) which didn’t even exist until some 500 years ago when it was developed by the Protestant Reformers.

Here are some links that should help you respond with facts and accurate doctrine.
Sola Fide - Salvation By Faith Alone? (MP3 Bible Study) and notes.

**Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
**
How Is A Catholic Saved?

Baptism~ Necessary or Not?

I hope those helps some.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[cydonian]

I found the bolded words to be the most telling.

You say that you don’t know what Jesus meant, you just know that whatever Baptists say must be wrong.

So, are you really interested in finding out what Jesus meant? Or do you just want to defeat Baptists in a debate to convince yourself that Catholicism must be right?

First of all I don’t appreciate your inferences. Second, l don’t have to convince myself that Catholicism is the fullness of truth. I believe that with all my heart!
I stated in my original post what I believe Jesus meant by those words. (and btw, I did not say that Baptists were wrong.)
I am looking for others to comment on this so that I (and others) can gain more knowledge and pass on the fullness of the truth.

As for the last sentence I am seeking help to form a response as I am not always great at forming a decent one myself.
Peace.

 

[Skip_Wiley]

First of all I don’t appreciate your inferences.

Second, l don’t have to convince myself that Catholicism is the fullness of truth. I believe that with all my heart!
I stated in my original post what I believe Jesus meant by those words. (and btw, I did not say that Baptists were wrong.)
I am looking for others to comment on this so that I (and others) can gain more knowledge and pass on the fullness of the truth.

As for the last sentence I am seeking help to form a response as I am not always great at forming a decent one myself.
Peace.

Back to my question: Do you really want to know what Jesus meant? Or do you just want to defeat Christians in a debate?

 

[Skip_Wiley]

Maybe if some Baptists didn’t trash talk the Catholic faith so much then such problems wouldn’t come up so much.

And yet, you seem to have no problem with the way Catholics talk to Christians.

I know because I was Southern Baptist and nearly went into their ministry. I still have some Baptists that I know and some I used to know who just couldn’t see me and not have some kind of wise remark to make about my faith. It got real old after about the 2nd time, believe me.

 

[cydonian]

And yet, you seem to have no problem with the way Catholics talk to Christians.

On behalf of Baptists everywhere, thank you for not going into the ministry.

Your combative and negative comments are not welcome here.

peace.

 

[Church_Militant]

And that’s exactly what I mean. How can he know that your church has the “fullness of the truth” (a fancy way of saying “NAH NAH NAH I’m in the special club and you’re not!”) when he doesn’t even know what the truth is?

Oh, give it a rest Skip! Sheesh! I don’t see anywhere in here that anyone has said that. We are entitled to our beliefs and if you disagree that is on you. If you don’t like what we believe then don’t be a Catholic and we’ll all just let God judge that.

But in the meantime, quit :crying: :crying: :crying: because Catholics make an apologetic defense of our faith and quit projecting that arrogance trash onto us. The few who make that kind of remark are about the same level and number as there are n-Cs who try to tell us that we cannot be Christians simply because we are Catholics. BOTH are wrong.

Again, this is exactly what I’m talking about. Does he really want to know what Jesus meant? Or does he just want to go to the Catholic church and find out what they want him to believe Jesus meant?

This could simply be rephrased and applied to you here as well Skip.

Do you really want to know what Jesus meant? Or do you just want to go to the Whatever church and find out what they want you to believe Jesus meant? So far that sounds like an prize winning description of a lot of your posts here.:yup:

If he was being prudent, then he wouldn’t have said “help me defeat the Christians” but “I’m seeking to find out what the Bible says about this”.

He didn’t say that at all, and you are dead wrong to characterize him as having said so.

Please help me respond to them with what Jesus really meant.

(Edited)

Congratulations…you just got yourself reported to the moderator for that remark because it is completely out of line and I think you know it.

Moreover, let’s have a quick look at what the Word of God says about such talk huh?

Psalm 19:[14] Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my redeemer.

Matthew 12:[35] The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.
[36] I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter;
[37] for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Colossians 3:8 But now put you also all away: anger, indignation, malice, blasphemy, filthy speech out of your mouth.

 

[Skip_Wiley]

Your combative and negative comments are not welcome here.

peace.

In other words, you don’t care what Jesus meant, you just want a few magic words to make the big, bad, Baptists go away.

 

[Church_Militant]

And yet, you seem to have no problem with the way Catholics talk to Christians.

I’m not in charge of the way others behave, and frankly, you have such a huge chip on your shoulder that no one here can seem to talk to you at all without you going off on us.

I know because I have tried.

To be honest Skip, you have brought most of those responses on yourself because of the kinds of things that you have said.

On behalf of Baptists everywhere, thank you for not going into the ministry.

See! Exactly my point! No rational response, just more smart remarks and vitriol.

Is this your idea of good “witnessing”? :tsktsk:

 

[Church_Militant]

In other words, you don’t care what Jesus meant, you just want a few magic words to make the big, bad, Baptists go away.

Another total mischaracterization of what cydonian said!

What? He’s a Catholic…did you expect him to come to you for advice, counsel, or teaching? Especially with the great level of charity that you have shown him so far on this thread and your responses to myself and other Catholics here at CAF?

That would be like asking a ditch digger about brain surgery.

Let me ask you this Skip.

Why are YOU here at CAF?

 

[Brendan]

What exactly did Jesus mean by these words?

I always thought it meant that his suffering was done. His time on earth, and what he came to do here, was done.
My Baptist friends try to tell that it means Jesus did all there was to do for us. All our sins are forgiven and that is that. We don’t have to do anything more but believe.
Please help me respond to them with what Jesus really meant.

Then what your Baptist friends believe is that either:

1.) The Resurrection does not matter, as Christ uttered those words PRIOR to the Resurrection.

or:

2.) Christ was not referring to the completion of our Salvation (which depends on the Resurrection), but to something else.

Ask them which one they believe.