"it is finished"

[Ignatius]

Read the book the coin of the temple by Souheil Bayoud you will see how the wheel of time moved backward to 33 AD then to present and to the future by the Holy Spirit.It is a real story which affirm that the redemption of the Lord Jesus Christ is present today.Today is the key word,only we have to do is to repent and believe.Enjoy it and God bless you.
dayofwrath.

No Holy Mysteries then? No Chrismation? No Eucharist? To which Orthodox church do ypu belong?

 

[kaclarkson]

I am a “Protestant” who visits this site often. I’ve been a Chrisitian for many years, but was unchurched growing up. I often leave this site discouraged by the “they versus us” tone, which I am well aware exists among Protestant controlled sites as well. The divisions and controversies between Catholic and Protestant teachings seem so…not like Christ, the author and perfector of our faith. What a waste. We (mankind) make it so complicated. Why is a member of one group a “better” Christian than the other? Are we not all Christians. I want to live a life that pleases the God who gave Jesus to die for all and who died specifically for me: a lost and hopeless sinner, powerless to save myself . I want to serve in any way God has equipped me to through the power of the Holy Spirit and be filled with the fruits of the spirit listed in Galations 5:22-26. I want to share the salvation message with all that I have been given the opportunity, to point them not to Catholicism or a Protestant church, but point them to Christ.
Kathy

 

[pohickgeezer]

Kathy, I am a Catholic, married to a non-Catholic for over 40 years. There’s a lot of good information shared here. Some folks get pretty excited about certain issues and some folks are more Catholic than Christian and it comes out from time-to-time. Please don’t let that affect your thinking about Catholic Answers or Catholics in general.

The fact that Catholics think they have something unique in the Eucharist is admittedly a point of contention, but we have so much more that we can agree on. My wife and I have learned to discuss the differences to explore the truth. If I knew she was reading all these posts, I would try to clean it up a little, but that would stiffle some well-intended and valuable exchange.

Please stay with us.

 

[Yankeegator7]

Kathy,

You can always come home to your Father’s house. There shall be great rejoicing and angels shall sing at the return of one soul to his house be it a Catholic who ran away from home, be it the worst sinner who hated his fathers house or even did not believe that his father’s house existed and repents, be it one who thought and believed false modernistic creeds. Come Home, Come Home to your Fathers house, there is true peace there. God is there this day and will be with his Church until the end of the age…

 

[surritter]

Hi Kathy. Regarding the topic of this thread, if you believe that Christ’s sacrifice is made present at each Mass, then you have a Catholic mindset in this area. If you believe that Mary and the other saints can intercede for us, then you have a Catholic mindset in that area.

If not, then you probably lean toward the Protestant thinking on these topics. Making that distinction is simply calling a spade a spade, but hopefully it’s not done with an air of superiority – if that is your point, then it’s true that shouldn’t happen.

But really, if as you say we are all Christians, then should we not agree on these important matters? To disagree is not an “us” versus “they” tone.

At the same time, it could be said that Protestants caused the “us” versus “they” by creating the division back in the 16th century, could it not?

 

[james62]

A related story: For about a year, I had an email exchange with a Protestant who always griped about the “re-sacrificing” business.

I finally got him with this analogy: If a movie is shown on a TV network and broadcast to a million households, how many times was the movie aired? Once or one million times? He said “once, of course.” Well the sacrifice on the altar at Mass is the same thing! Jesus died once, but this sacrifice is “broadcast” through time and space to each Mass.

You see, he couldn’t grasp the idea of “transcending time” because he kept thinking about the historical fact of Good Friday. I agreed in the historical event, but showed him how each Mass “taps into” the sacrifice, just as each television “taps into” the movie.
Of course, we just went on to argue about other things then…

GREAT analogy! Thanks. . . and i’m a film/video guy, so maybe i can use this often (mind if i steal it?). What helped me a lot on this issue was digging into the first century mindset of the Jews at Passover. They didn’t just do it “as a memorial” as we do the fourth of July, they really believed they were (like back in time) with the Jews as they “did” the first Passover meal in Egypt. And, of course, those who did not EAT all of the lamb, AND spread it’s blood on their doorposts would not be part of the covenant. With that thinking, the Eucharist begins to make perfect sense with our Jewish foundation.

 

[PJM]

=schulze43;How do you respond to the protestant argument that says that since Jesus said that it is finished that means that we cant possibly have Jesus’ body and blood in the Eucharist and that the Sacrifice of Mass is not real…could someone please explain to me how to explain the Sacrifice of Mass? and what did Jesus really mean when He said it is finished??? any help is much appreciated thank you

Hi and thanks for asking.

“It is finished” refers specifically to the Mission of Christ as Redeemer. He affirmed that the precise reason for His Incarntion [God becomming also man] was to once again make Redemption both complete and POSSIBLE .

Because of the sins of Adam and Eve, access to heaven had been blocked as the primary consequence of there sin.

Those early souls found to be worthy of salvation had to wait in a place without pain or suffering’ BUT also without the GLORY of actually being in the Divine Presence, until Christ, "the New Adam, reopened the gates of heaven.

“As by one man’s sin they were closed [LOCKED], so too, by One man’s Sacrifie, [Jesus] the access to haven again bcame possible.” There ad then the precise mission of Christ was now “fulfilled.”

The Catecheim: # 1382 “The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood. But the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice is wholly directed toward the intimate union of the faithful with Christ through communion. To receive communion is to receive Christ himself who has offered himself for us”

In a profound way the Mass is at one an the same time, inseperately an fully:

A Sacrifice Sacrament
A Consumption Sacrament [Presence Sacrament]
A Worship Sacrament

This explains the primary purpose for the Mass.

Mass is always to be FIRST; GOD centered Worship.

Mass first and foremost is a “re-presentation” NOT a Representation, but a making the Sacrifice of Christ present time and time again. “Do this in memory of Me.” Are the words of Institution by Jesus of the Priesthood, and priest are absolutely essential to “making” Christ Present in the Eucharist.

The words of Consecration are: “THIS IS MY BODY” and "THIS IS MY BLOOD."

While Eucharist requires the intercession of the priest; nevertheless, it is actually brought about by God. Eucharist is From God, of God and primarily for God; and yet only we actually benefit from it. God being perfect cannot become "more perfect."

The term applied to this DUAL miracle is: "Transubstanuation" and it involves two back to back miracles.

**At the words of Consecration: “This is…” **the priest is actually changed into the “person of Jesus Christ” [which is the main, but not only reason, priest MUST BE male gender]…The priest for the instant of Consecration become “alter Christi,” “another Christ.” Thus it is God who also makes His Divine Glorified, Body, Blood, Soul an Divinity Present. It is an UNBLOODY sacrifice, because Christ can “die” only once; and yet; it REALLY IS THE SAME JESUS BORN OF MARY, THE SAME JESUS WHO DIED ON THE CROSS that we receive in Catholic Holy Communion.

The first reason for this Sacrament, [Sacrifice to God] leads directly into the second reason. The consumption of the Real Jesus as the most perfect and plentiful source of Redemptive - GRACE needed for human salvation.

The second reason ought naturally lead to the Third reason; Divine Worship outside of the Mass.

Next to actually receiving Jesus Himself in Catholic Holy Communion, Eucharistic Adoration is the next “best” source of Divine Grace. Everyone ought to avail themselves of time in front of the “Real Presence” reserved in the Tabernacles in our Churches.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[schulze43]

Hi and thanks for asking.

“It is finished” refers specifically to the Mission of Christ as Redeemer. He affirmed that the precise reason for His Incarntion [God becomming also man] was to once again make Redemption both complete and POSSIBLE .

Because of the sins of Adam and Eve, access to heaven had been blocked as the primary consequence of there sin.

Those early souls found to be worthy of salvation had to wait in a place without pain or suffering’ BUT also without the GLORY of actually being in the Divine Presence, until Christ, "the New Adam, reopened the gates of heaven.

“As by one man’s sin they were closed [LOCKED], so too, by One man’s Sacrifie, [Jesus] the access to haven again bcame possible.” There ad then the precise mission of Christ was now “fulfilled.”

The Catecheim: # 1382 “The Mass is at the same time, and inseparably, the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated and the sacred banquet of communion with the Lord’s body and blood. But the celebration of the Eucharistic sacrifice is wholly directed toward the intimate union of the faithful with Christ through communion. To receive communion is to receive Christ himself who has offered himself for us”

In a profound way the Mass is at one an the same time, inseperately an fully:

A Sacrifice Sacrament
A Consumption Sacrament [Presence Sacrament]
A Worship Sacrament

This explains the primary purpose for the Mass.

Mass is always to be FIRST; GOD centered Worship.

Mass first and foremost is a “re-presentation” NOT a Representation, but a making the Sacrifice of Christ present time and time again. “Do this in memory of Me.” Are the words of Institution by Jesus of the Priesthood, and priest are absolutely essential to “making” Christ Present in the Eucharist.

The words of Consecration are: “THIS IS MY BODY” and "THIS IS MY BLOOD."

While Eucharist requires the intercession of the priest; nevertheless, it is actually brought about by God. Eucharist is From God, of God and primarily for God; and yet only we actually benefit from it. God being perfect cannot become "more perfect."

The term applied to this DUAL miracle is: "Transubstanuation" and it involves two back to back miracles.

**At the words of Consecration: “This is…” **the priest is actually changed into the “person of Jesus Christ” [which is the main, but not only reason, priest MUST BE male gender]…The priest for the instant of Consecration become “alter Christi,” “another Christ.” Thus it is God who also makes His Divine Glorified, Body, Blood, Soul an Divinity Present. It is an UNBLOODY sacrifice, because Christ can “die” only once; and yet; it REALLY IS THE SAME JESUS BORN OF MARY, THE SAME JESUS WHO DIED ON THE CROSS that we receive in Catholic Holy Communion.

The first reason for this Sacrament, [Sacrifice to God] leads directly into the second reason. The consumption of the Real Jesus as the most perfect and plentiful source of Redemptive - GRACE needed for human salvation.

The second reason ought naturally lead to the Third reason; Divine Worship outside of the Mass.

Next to actually receiving Jesus Himself in Catholic Holy Communion, Eucharistic Adoration is the next “best” source of Divine Grace. Everyone ought to avail themselves of time in front of the “Real Presence” reserved in the Tabernacles in our Churches.

Love and prayers,
Pat

thanks so much for your help

 

[schulze43]

A related story: For about a year, I had an email exchange with a Protestant who always griped about the “re-sacrificing” business.

I finally got him with this analogy: If a movie is shown on a TV network and broadcast to a million households, how many times was the movie aired? Once or one million times? He said “once, of course.” Well the sacrifice on the altar at Mass is the same thing! Jesus died once, but this sacrifice is “broadcast” through time and space to each Mass.

You see, he couldn’t grasp the idea of “transcending time” because he kept thinking about the historical fact of Good Friday. I agreed in the historical event, but showed him how each Mass “taps into” the sacrifice, just as each television “taps into” the movie.
Of course, we just went on to argue about other things then…

I really like this thanks for the help

 

[Rustyxcv]

(Forgive me if I repeat what someone else has already said – I haven’t read ALL the posts on this topic.)
English is such a wonderful language. One word can have dozens of meanings and nuances. “It is finished” – on the lips of Our Lord, on the Cross, means that the work of salvation, with His death, is now perfected, completed, fulfilled. God and Man are now fully reconciled, the sin of Adam atoned. It does NOT mean “over and done with.” as the word “finished” can mean in so many other contexts.
– When I say, “I am finished eating,” I am NOT going to eat anymore! When I say that the polishing of the Hope Diamond is finished, it means that now its beauty and perfection is ready to radiate throughout the whole world to good effect for all to enjoy. (Pace those who maintain that there is a curse on the Hope Diamond. Granted it’s not the best example.)
– Christ’s atonement is FINISHED with His death on the Cross, BUT it has NEVER ceased to stop working in the world to bring healing, forgiveness, and reconciliation. What happens at Holy Mass and at summer Bible camp are just two examples of how this Great Work lives on (and grows still greater) 2000 years after it was “finished,” in the sense of the objector.
– God’s Peace! – Rusty