"It is hard for you to kick against the pricks”? Why does Luke put a Greek proverb on our Lords lips?

[FishyPete]

Why is this a problem? As Haydock says: “It is generally supposed that S. Paul addresses king Agrippa in the Greek language, which was the common tongue of a great part of the East. V.”

The Lord spoke to Paul in one language. Paul probably spoke to Agrippa in another. Luke rendered that in the Greek. Indeed, Jesus could have spoken this Greek proverb in Hebrew to Paul, as He knew that Paul would both understand it as well as later use it before Agrippa (and probably others), since the Hellenized (Greek speaking) Jews would be hearing him.

In short, scripture is not everything. As well, we must not assume that Paul put any words on Jesus’ lips.

Why did Jude, one of the twelve, quote from the apocryphal Assumption of Moses as well as from the equally apocryphal Book of Enoch his letter? Why does Paul name Jannes and Jambres as opposing Moses in the desert? They are named nowhere in the OT.

Those excerpted apocryphal lessons were inspired when used in context, but their sum total remained apocryphal.

Great points thank you!

 

[FishyPete]

Remember, Paul was Apostle to the Gentiles. Although he certainly encountered Hebrew speakers, they were a minority of those he taught.

Agreed!

 

[FishyPete]

I think this is splitting hairs here. I would image that St. Luke got this first hand from St. Paul whom he traveled with. The person questioning that Jesus from heaven wouldn’t have used s Greek proverb to speak to an extremely educated man like St. Paul can’t say this at all and with any certainty. In other words, how does can this person know that? They can’t and Jesus speaking from heaven could have easily used a popular Greek proverb which fit the situation. The burden of proof is on them instead of what St. Luke recorded from St. Paul. St. Paul did become the “apostle” to the Greeks so it does seem fitting that Jesus speaking to St. Paul in his conversion would have used a Greek proverb as a precurser to what St. Paul’s mission and ministry would be.

He spoke it I’m Hebrew, which Paul then translated to Greek, so I agree with you.

 

[petra22]

I have bad news for you then. Paul was chosen by Jesus to receive the Keys of the Kingdom as an apostle. He also wrote a significant portion of the New Testament. Do you deny the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in his work?

Wanting to hear more and learn… but it’s over my head, languages…

 

[pianistclare]

He spoke it I’m Hebrew, which Paul then translated to Greek, so I agree with you.

Jesus did know and spoke 3 languages. according to every priest I’ve ever asked.
Hebrew for the Temple, Aramaic for his surroundings and home, and Greek in the market place. ( He was a carpenter, you know, and supported His mother in His foster-father’s trade. )

 

[FishyPete]

Jesus did know and spoke 3 languages. according to every priest I’ve ever asked.
Hebrew for the Temple, Aramaic for his surroundings and home, and Greek in the market place. ( He was a carpenter, you know, and supported His mother in His foster-father’s trade. )

Excellent contribution, and good points.

 

[GEddie]

I suppose so. But would His Hebrew audience have known it?

But if this was said to Saul of Tarsus, who was fluent in Greek, there would be no problem.

ICXC NIKA

 

[FishyPete]

But if this was said to Saul of Tarsus, who was fluent in Greek, there would be no problem.

ICXC NIKA

Indeed, but it’s also valid that our Lord simply said the Greek proverb to Paul in Hebrew, knowing he would know it instantly. Also our Lord could have said it in Hebrew in a similar fashion and Paul repeated the equivalent Greek idiom to Agrippa knowing he would know it.

I suppose so. But would His Hebrew audience have known it?

I think the point was there was a similar expression in Hebrew, which logic calls for since even though there are no written examples, they were a people who used “goads” or “pricks” as it is mentioned in the OT and the Jewish people lived with knowledge of Greek sayings, which probably intermingled with their own, especially with a common theme of Ox and beasts of burden which all men used. The audience for Luke and Paul however were Greek, therefore the use of the Greek common expression.

Does that make sense too?

 

[Miserissima]

[QUO
TE=pianistclare;12027707]Jesus did know and spoke 3 languages. according to every priest I’ve ever asked.
Hebrew for the Temple, Aramaic for his surroundings and home, and Greek in the market place. ( He was a carpenter, you know, and supported His mother in His foster-father’s trade. )

The Hebrews would have known the expression because the Hellenists (Greeks) controlled the trade and much of the region before the Romans.

There were three languages spoken in the region at the time.

Think, for example, what “foreign” words or phrases may be in English that have not been translated and yet are perfectly understood, such as…que sera sera. It’s not an English phrase, but Anglophones know what it means because it was in the popular culture of the 50s and the phrase was kept in use.

 

[FishyPete]

[QUO
TE=pianistclare;12027707]Jesus did know and spoke 3 languages. according to every priest I’ve ever asked.
Hebrew for the Temple, Aramaic for his surroundings and home, and Greek in the market place. ( He was a carpenter, you know, and supported His mother in His foster-father’s trade. )

The Hebrews would have known the expression because the Hellenists (Greeks) controlled the trade and much of the region before the Romans.

There were three languages spoken in the region at the time.

Think, for example, what “foreign” words or phrases may be in English that have not been translated and yet are perfectly understood, such as…que sera sera. It’s not an English phrase, but Anglophones know what it means because it was in the popular culture of the 50s and the phrase was kept in use.

Great stuff! Thanks.