It is hard to be Catholic

[Anglewannabe]

Things at work have been going well. I have pretty well mastered all my routine tasks. The problem I have had lately is every time I sit at the lunch table, there is a conversation that as I Catholic, I find unpleasant at best.

One day, I sat at the table. The people who were already sitting were having a conversation about homosexual marriages. The popular opinion was ‘Isn’t it great that they finally are being treated properly and how sad it was they use to be discriminated against.’ It was very obvious any comment to the contrary was not welcome and a couple of people shared about their sibling who came out of the closet. One lady even shared she was mad that her son though it was weird when he had always know his uncle was homosexual.

I did not want to get up and leave, well actually I did but though it would be unwise since it would have made too strong of a statement, so I sat there and prayed in my head. I really did not know how to handle the situation and it irks me that the freedom of speech no longer seems to apply to Catholic in Canada.

Then, yesterday, the topic was religion. It was about how ‘everyone has a spirituality and it is OK, to practice it as one thinks is comfortable’. Again, I said nothing because that view point makes me ill. One girl said ‘Angie you are Catholic aren’t you’ (not hard to figure out because I cross myself before eating every lunch) and I said yes. In a way I was glad I had the chance to finally say it, but in a way I resented how I had to water down my comments for the sake of political correctness.

Today, the topic was 2 girls are getting married. Nothing against big weddings but I always found wedding planning boring conversation. One girl has been complaining/showing off that her grandmother is so upset she won’t be getting married in the Catholic church. She carries on about how she was raised Catholic but doesn’t practice. Again, that is akward for me since I believe in live and let live and respect her choice. But I am fed up with listening to her go on and on about she is an expert about the faith. Well, today she said ‘It looks like everything is booked so I will have to get married in the church’ Everyone piped up 'at least your grandmother will be happy. I felt like screaming ‘You don’t get married in the church to make granny happy, you get married in the church so that Jesus can be present’ But I bit my tongue.

Then she starting saying ‘since I don’t go to church, I don’t know which Catholic church to go to’ I said ‘they will probably tell you to go to your parish’, then I had to explain to the non-Catholics a parish means district your house is in’ This girl proceeded to say, she wanted to get married in the church she grew up in but no longer lives in that parish. All the other girls said ‘well you grew up there, you have a connection you can do it’. I really resent how people who are not Catholic talk like they are experts. The truth is, the priest will make that decision but there I saw no point in stating it.

As much as on the outside, a fly on the wall might think I am one of the gang, the reality is, I just find the conversation boring and I resent how it feels like I am the only one who can not honestly express an opinion.

To be honest, I am not surprised. I know full well Jesus said ‘pick up your cross and follow me’ and since I love Jesus so much, this is the price I pay for following Him. I just wish I could pay this price with a bigger smile on my face

Not sure if my vent made sense but thanks for reading

Angie

 

[underacloud]

Not sure if my vent made sense but thanks for reading

Angie

Made perfect sense!

Yes, it is hard being Catholic. Not just today though…I’m glad I’m alive today rather than say in ancient Rome during the first and second centuries. Now they didn’t treat Christians too well. Or even today; in some parts of the world it is hard - life-threatening -being Christian. I digress…

Very glad to hear your job is going well.

 

[hillerytwo]

Actually your religious resentment is what saint Paul expressed in 1cor. 13 ,is that of a clanging gong, ,knowing all things,w,o, ,love,the holy spirit loves these people -

 

[TarkanAttila]

I wonder what would happen if you voiced those opinions?

I tend to have a somewhat opposite problem. I have viewpoints with which no one agrees with me - but usually it’s because I’m slightly more “liberal” politically.

For example, today one man said he thought outreach to homosexuals was silly. I voiced how I think we should make some kind of outreach to homosexuals. I didn’t know what kind. But I do know many don’t know the love Christ has for them, and they need to know. But no one I was with was very receptive of the idea.

Or another: I like Bernie Sanders and his policies on economics and education. I would support him if it were him vs. Trump. Time and again I am asked how I can support a “communist”. And I have defended my rejection of Trump because he supports torture in the extreme, and I am doubtful about his claims to be anti-abortion.

But here’s the thing: they still consider me a Catholic wanting to love God and do His will. We still talk. We are still friends. What would the people you talk with do if you came out with an opinion they disagreed with?

You’ve *got *to find some orthodox Catholics to be friends with and spend time with. You’re going to go nuts otherwise. If you can find really Catholic friends, you will find some joy. (Where two or more are gathered in His name, there is He with them.)

I did that. Also, when I worked, I ate, prayed, and spent my breaks alone. I enjoyed the relative solitude of sitting alone - in the lunch room, or in a hallway in some alcove, even outside on the pavement or on an island in the parking lot. There’s a lot of peace to be had from solitude.

 

[fin]

Hi Angie,

I agree with you. Being a Catholic, or trying to be a good Catholic is hard. I’m not going to sugarcoat it.

I think it’s easier if imperfect as we are, majority of the people surrounding you are also trying hard to be good Catholics. If your surroundings are mostly secular minded or nominal Catholics, it’s very difficult. I’m speaking from experience.

But as a Catholic, I have to carry my cross. There are no shortcuts.

That’s why I like spending time on CAF. Here, I can act on my desires (don’t worry, they’re the good kind - the desire of learning about my Faith, and interacting with other Catholics who love their Faith).

It’s very hard to not be able to act on those desires when I’m around other people, because they don’t understand, or they might ridicule me. I know I should be more courageous.

 

[jaimeleglise]

Hi. Do you have to eat with others?

 

[Viki63]

It sounds like your coworkers talk about sex and religion a lot.
At my workplace, we avoid controversial topics, and just talk about pollitics (you can just shake your head on that topic) and work issues.
Some of my co-workers sit alone and read, and we all know not to disturb them. You could do that.

Maybe you can find some more congenial folks to sit with. Or you could express your opinions, as long as you do it in a Christlike manner. These people are not trying to offend you, They are confused, thinking they know things that they don’t. Try to see them as God sees them, as mixed up children.

On the topic of homosexual marriages, you could say something like, “that’s a very difficult lifestyle. You have to feel for people with that kind of a burden.” Of course, you have to know what you’re talking about – I mean the health issues that homosexuals have, which are being swept under the rug right now.

About the girl getting married in the church to please her grandmother, it’s a shame that your feeling is that you’re fed up hearing about it. You could try to say something kind, like, “it’s great that your grandmother is so concerned for your soul. She really must love you.”

It’s okay to set people straight as long as you love them. We have to speak the truth in love, and be wise as serpents but harmless as doves. Not an easy task.

.

 

[TwoNames]

Yeah, I think that is a cross every practicing Catholic has to carry. It get’s further than that, when you are sorrounded with ex-communists, if you are from such a country (you get to hear labelings for priests and a wide variatey of hatred for the Church). I used to try to explain some stuff. But I no longer do that, because of two things. 1. 99% of people do not want any explanation or any other view but their own. 2. It’s hard for me to follow through with it in the spirit of charity, I get angry at the stupidity of people and that does not make me a good witness to the faith and causes harm to my spiritual life.

Oh and just to add this: Most people when having a conversation, talk in favour of sodomy because they lack knowladge and they feel good about themselves when they talk in favour of someone who used to be and no longer is persecuted and is not happy. Most honestly think they are doing the right thing and normally they see people like you and me as biggots. There is only one Truth, and saints went far beyond being called biggots for the Truth, for the Faith.

 

[thecolorsblend]

To be honest, I am not surprised. I know full well Jesus said ‘pick up your cross and follow me’ and since I love Jesus so much, this is the price I pay for following Him. I just wish I could pay this price with a bigger smile on my face

Not sure if my vent made sense but thanks for reading

I used to work in a very liberal office. The American Supreme Court redefining marriage was universally understood to be a positive development. The tone of the remarks people made allowed no room for a difference of opinion. I became concerned after a while that merely voicing my opinion (which, obviously, is different from theirs) could affect my prospects for advancement in the company. It’s a very tough situation right now, no doubt about it.

Yes, it is hard being Catholic. Not just today though…I’m glad I’m alive today rather than say in ancient Rome during the first and second centuries. Now they didn’t treat Christians too well. Or even today; in some parts of the world it is hard - life-threatening -being Christian.

Do you believe things are better now? I ask not to challenge you but because I am genuinely curious.

Depending on how you view such things, the early Church had a bloody but arguably easier deal. Renounce Our Lord or die. Those who refused might have had their heads cut off, a spear plunged their through their chest, been immersed in boiling oil, fed to lions, etc. And yes, those are grizzly fates to be sure. But even the worst punishments lasted only a few hours, tops. And those were rare. The rest of them would be over in a matter of minutes, possibly even just a few seconds. They’re finished almost before they even begin.

Are things better today? I’m not so sure.

True, nobody will demand your head be separated from your shoulders today. We’re too civilized for that (in some countries anyway). So instead you may get chased out of your job. Ask the former CEO of Mozilla, a brilliant programmer and tech as well as a very gifted corporate leader who was dismissed because he supports marriage rather than the Supreme Court mutilation. He couldn’t find work in his industry anymore last I heard.

I’ve heard stories about a lawyer who nearly lost his practice because he dared to opine that Obergefell v. Hodges, which legitimized deviant unions, was a travesty because it was so poorly decided, so incredibly flimsy, that a future Court can and probably will overturn it. He supports the principle of same-sex unions. He simply said the decision cannot survive very long in a sane world. Many of his regular clients quit on him when they found out about his comments.

If we take incidents like the above to the logical conclusion, things could feasibly reach the point where finding a job is virtually impossible if you’ve been “blacklisted” in some way. All it takes is one vindictive same-sex union supporter in your company to have “moral” objections to your support of marriage. How many companies want to risk the negative PR that could ensue from one news story announcing they tolerate bigoted employees in their ranks? After all, we have to consider the shareholders. Our stock prices could be at stake! Firing the troublesome employee and issuing a press release announcing their commitment to “equality” is the perfect inoculation. Who knows, perhaps the company’s stocks will rise because of management’s “bravery”.

Being boiled in oil is a terrible thing. Nobody, not even the worst criminal in the world, ever deserves that. And yet I still find that preferable to the kinder, gentler persecution America and other countries seem to be heading into which could drive people into homelessness, destitution and possible starvation.

If persecution must come back (and who knows?), I think I prefer the relatively more humane methods of the Romans, thanks.

 

[underacloud]

Do you believe things are better now? I ask not to challenge you but because I am genuinely curious.

Better? That’s a complex question. But easier? Yeah, I’ll take the comfortable modern western civilisation. But being a Christian isn’t meant to be easy. I’m sure the sufferings of Christians in any time and any civilisation are of value beyond our capacity to comprehend. I don’t wish for suffering, but I know of its value.

 

[redbetta]

Your co-workers know that you are Catholic but talk garbage about your religion in front of you anyway? This reminds me of a high school aquaintance who would always rant about evil Christians being bigoted against gay people and how stupid religion is (this was in a Catholic school no doubt). She never stopped to considered that maybe someone at the table was religious and, I have dropped some hints that I am. I eventually started eating by myself. It is one thing to see teenage girls be so rude, another to see grown women do that. The latter makes me lose more faith in humanity.

Also, why do people put lifestyle on the same level as race? You cannot argue against a race which cannot be changed but you can argue against a lifestyle because it can be.

 

[Irishmom2]

Things at work have been going well. I have pretty well mastered all my routine tasks. The problem I have had lately is every time I sit at the lunch table, there is a conversation that as I Catholic, I find unpleasant at best.

One day, I sat at the table. The people who were already sitting were having a conversation about homosexual marriages. The popular opinion was ‘Isn’t it great that they finally are being treated properly and how sad it was they use to be discriminated against.’ It was very obvious any comment to the contrary was not welcome and a couple of people shared about their sibling who came out of the closet. One lady even shared she was mad that her son though it was weird when he had always know his uncle was homosexual.

I did not want to get up and leave, well actually I did but though it would be unwise since it would have made too strong of a statement, so I sat there and prayed in my head. I really did not know how to handle the situation and it irks me that the freedom of speech no longer seems to apply to Catholic in Canada.

I am pretty sure you are still free to speak when you want, and about what you want.

Then, yesterday, the topic was religion. It was about how ‘everyone has a spirituality and it is OK, to practice it as one thinks is comfortable’. Again, I said nothing because that view point makes me ill.

So, I am not sure what your problem is with that. That is correct. The fact that people choose to practice spirituality their own way is their business, not yours.

One girl said ‘Angie you are Catholic aren’t you’ (not hard to figure out because I cross myself before eating every lunch) and I said yes. In a way I was glad I had the chance to finally say it, but in a way I resented how I had to water down my comments for the sake of political correctness.

Today, the topic was 2 girls are getting married. Nothing against big weddings but I always found wedding planning boring conversation.

Well, this is life, Angie. People don’t always have conversations that interest us. You do seem to be a bit intolerant of any conversation you don’t agree with or that you find “boring.”

One girl has been complaining/showing off that her grandmother is so upset she won’t be getting married in the Catholic church. She carries on about how she was raised Catholic but doesn’t practice. Again, that is akward for me since I believe in live and let live and respect her choice.

No, you really don’t or you wouldn’t be complaining about her, whether she is a fallen away Catholic or not. Maybe you could have used the moment as an opportunity to gently suggest that she may in fact, find her way back to the church in preparing for her marriage.

But I am fed up with listening to her go on and on

Again, your intolerance is showing…

about she is an expert about the faith. Well, today she said ‘It looks like everything is booked so I will have to get married in the church’ Everyone piped up 'at least your grandmother will be happy. I felt like screaming ‘You don’t get married in the church to make granny happy, you get married in the church so that Jesus can be present’ But I bit my tongue.

As you should. It sounds like the people you eat with are not your friends, they are just co-workers. It is not your place to judge or correct them. A priest will speak to her.

Then she starting saying ‘since I don’t go to church, I don’t know which Catholic church to go to’ I said ‘they will probably tell you to go to your parish’, then I had to explain to the non-Catholics a parish means district your house is in’ This girl proceeded to say, she wanted to get married in the church she grew up in but no longer lives in that parish. All the other girls said ‘well you grew up there, you have a connection you can do it’. I really resent how people who are not Catholic talk like they are experts. The truth is, the priest will make that decision but there I saw no point in stating it.

As much as on the outside, a fly on the wall might think I am one of the gang, the reality is, I just find the conversation boring and I resent how it feels like I am the only one who can not honestly express an opinion.

And maybe that is because you are not part of the gang. You are someone sitting at a table eating lunch. If you are not friends with them outside of work, then they are just co-workers. You are intolerant because you find the conversation boring. Conversation at the lunch table is not always what we like, but it sounds like you are just not willing to hear anything that doesn’t interest you. I could see if the conversation were something truly offensive, you should speak up. But really, these conversations were nothing for you to get riled up about.

To be honest, I am not surprised. I know full well Jesus said ‘pick up your cross and follow me’ and since I love Jesus so much, this is the price I pay for following Him. I just wish I could pay this price with a bigger smile on my face

This is what you should strive to do. If you cannot find a way to show any interest in this girl’s happiness because you find wedding preparation talk boring, perhaps you could find a different table to eat at. Or eat at your desk. Or eat in your car.

It’s all about trying to get along with people whether they are sinners or not, Angie. We all sin. We just sin in different ways. Even if you think the girls at the table are sinning, it is not your business to say anything unless they ask for your help.

Not sure if my vent made sense but thanks for reading

Angie

 

[pianistclare]

I think what the OP meant to say was :
It’s hard to give a voice to defend Catholic teaching and opinion when everyone around you has already made up their minds about what we teach and believe.

No one should be discriminated against.
Everyone is free to worship as they choose,
EVEN CATHOLICS.
That’s the missed opportunity. To correct erroneous thinking about the faith.

Or, instead, eat alone.

 

[Eliza10]

I think what the OP meant to say was :
It’s hard to give a voice to defend Catholic teaching and opinion when everyone around you has already made up their minds about what we teach and believe.

No one should be discriminated against.
Everyone is free to worship as they choose,
EVEN CATHOLICS.
That’s the missed opportunity. To correct erroneous thinking about the faith.

Or, instead, eat alone.

 

[Eliza10]

Actually your religious resentment is what saint Paul expressed in 1cor. 13 ,is that of a clanging gong, ,knowing all things,w,o, ,love,the holy spirit loves these people -

Wow, this is your first post, to tell angelwannabe that she is a clanging gong? You signed up for that?

---

Angel, I am sorry for this awkwardness you experienced. Its hard when you sort of realize that the only opinions that are okay for everyone to get self-righteously discriminatory about are the Catholic (or other firm Christian) ones.

I think its okay for you to say simply sometimes, “I am Catholic and I don’t do that.” You will have the satisfaction of witnessing your faith, however briefly. (Not for the homosexuality topic, as I am assuming that’s not a struggle for you personally). You don’t have to be pulled into an public inquisition about your personal beliefs, but making an occasional statement when everyone else is saying theirs I think can be a witness. And if you make a statement alluding to where you stand with a thing, you don’t have to follow it up with any discussion at all. To further questions, especially the ones you can tell are to pick a fight and not to get any sincere information, you can say, "That’s all I want to say, " and “I don’t want to get into a religious a discussion with a group of my coworkers. I don’t’ think that’s wise. Lets find something we all want to talk about.”

 

[barhoram]

YES. It is.

It’s unfortunate the the same freedom vs discrimination that everyone else wants or gets isn’t afforded to us and Catholic choices. In fact, it seems it’s open season on traditional Catholic beliefs.

Having 5 kids, you couldn’t imagine the types of things that are said to me by my co-workers about the fact that my wife and I choose to have 5 kids…if I expressed criticism of say a homosexual’s choice,I’d be fired on the spot.

 

[Eliza10]

YES. It is.

It’s unfortunate the the same freedom vs discrimination that everyone else wants or gets isn’t afforded to us and Catholic choices. In fact, it seems it’s open season on traditional Catholic beliefs.

Yes. Freedom for everyone to think and promote and do whatever they want. Unless you are Catholic. There are different rules for Catholics/practicing, devout Christians.

Having 5 kids, you couldn’t imagine the types of things that are said to me by my co-workers about the fact that my wife and I choose to have 5 kids…if I expressed criticism of say a homosexual’s choice,I’d be fired on the spot.

There must be some good answers for this. Like, “Which one of my children do you think I should send back?” Some people say these things without thinking. And its charitable to think its only that, and that they need some gentle assistance with thinking about what they are saying. So, said without rancor, you can give them a chance to think.

Maybe, “Life isn’t always convenient, but the very best things in life cost something.” I don’t know if that one is good, but, you someone could come up with better.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Oh please. I end up holding my tongue at work all the time. I work with outspoken conservatives who live for political and social discussions. I don’t want to argue, and certainly not at work. My mouth stays shut and I go on about my day.

I’m not a persecuted atheist, I haven’t lost my freedom to share my beliefs, I’m not under attack at work. I’m just the odd man out of these discussions and I’m totally fine with that. It’s just my job. Think of it as being the only hip hop fan in a sea of metal heads. You aren’t excluded, you just don’t have much to contribute to this particular conversation.

Have we really devolved so far into a victim mentality that feeling uncomfortable sharing dissenting political opinions with coworkers equals a loss of freedom for the person who feels uncomfortable?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Oh please. I end up holding my tongue at work all the time. I work with outspoken conservatives who live for political and social discussions. I don’t want to argue, and certainly not at work. My mouth stays shut and I go on about my day.

I’m not a persecuted atheist, I haven’t lost my freedom to share my beliefs, I’m not under attack at work. I’m just the odd man out of these discussions and I’m totally fine with that. It’s just my job. Think of it as being the only hip hop fan in a sea of metal heads. You aren’t excluded, you just don’t have much to contribute to this particular conversation.

Have we really devolved so far into a victim mentality that feeling uncomfortable sharing dissenting political opinions with coworkers equals a loss of freedom for the person who feels uncomfortable?

The next time the CEO of a major tech company gets chased out of his job for supporting any aspect of the liberal agenda or an atheist baker is sued for not wanting to make a cake for some left-friendly reason, let me know.

 

[Patavium]

Oh please. I end up holding my tongue at work all the time. I work with outspoken conservatives who live for political and social discussions. I don’t want to argue, and certainly not at work. My mouth stays shut and I go on about my day.

I’m not a persecuted atheist, I haven’t lost my freedom to share my beliefs, I’m not under attack at work. I’m just the odd man out of these discussions and I’m totally fine with that. It’s just my job. Think of it as being the only hip hop fan in a sea of metal heads. You aren’t excluded, you just don’t have much to contribute to this particular conversation.

Have we really devolved so far into a victim mentality that feeling uncomfortable sharing dissenting political opinions with coworkers equals a loss of freedom for the person who feels uncomfortable?

I agree. Work is for working.

Evangelize by example, Preach the Gospel by example, and sometimes use words if necessary.