It is NOT immoral to vote for Democrats

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The issue is that MOST (not all) Democrats support abortion. And even the so called “pro life Democrats” in govt often side with the pro Abortion Democrats on legislation dealing with abortion.

As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, abortion is MURDER. Besides euthanasia, no other existing political position reaches the level of evil of abortion and euthanasia.

Many priests, bishops and moral theologians go as far as arguing that it is objectively a mortal sin to vote for a pro abortion politician when a pro-life one is in the race too. The only way it’s ok to vote pro-choice vs pro-life is when the pro-life candidate is so evil, to overcast his pro-life stance. And personally, I’m not aware of a single Pro-Life candidate in the national news today that fits that bill. NOTE: being a jerk is not the same thing as evil.

https://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/SINTOVOT.HTM

Voting Pro-Life

Dear Grace: In this election, many candidates seek our support. As Catholics, how can we support politicians who mix their stands and thus make it difficult to determine whether thay truly represen…
www.catholiceducation.org www.catholiceducation.org

www.catholicvote.org

Why Catholics Can’t Vote for Hillary—Even Once. Ever. For Any Reason.

Some of us are still conflicted about Donald Trump, but when it comes to Hillary, there can be no question. Nothing can balance a bad stance…
www.catholicvote.org www.catholicvote.org

www.churchpop.com

Can Catholics Ever Vote for Pro-Abortion Politicians? Here's What You Need to Know

This question comes up at every election. Can Catholics ever vote for a politician who is pro-abortion? First, let’s get this clear: abortion is intrinsically evil, which means it’s always wrong. No one, especially Catholics, can ever morally obtain, perform, or support an abortion. But...
www.churchpop.com www.churchpop.com

Also, Monsignor Stuart Swetland, from Relevant Radio wrote the following about how to “vote Catholic.”

About Msgr. Swetland​

Msgr. Stuart W. Swetland, S.T.D., is a convert to the Catholic Faith and was ordained a priest in 1991 for the Diocese of Peoria. He received his undergraduate degree in Physics from the United States Naval Academy. He is a Rhodes Scholar and holds a B.A. and M.A. from Oxford, a M.Div. and M.A. from Mount St. Mary’s Seminary, and his S.T.L. and S.T.D. from the Pontifical Lateran University.

He currently serves as the seventh President of Donnelly College in Kansas City, KS, where he is also Professor of Leadership and Christian Ethics. Previously, he served as Vice President for Catholic Identity and Mission and held the Archbishop Flynn Chair of Christian Ethics at Mount St. Mary’s University in Emmitsburg, MD. Msgr. Swetland was named a Prelate of Honor in 2000 by Saint John Paul II and is a Knight Commander for the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchure and a 4th Degree Knight of Columbus.

Msgr. Swetland serves as the Chief Religion Correspondent for the Relevant Radio® network and is the host of Go Ask Your FatherTM on Relevant Radio.
 
ChristMyLife said:
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Augustinian:
true, the Republicans generally favor only a safety net for indigent individuals and families, allowing those who are able to manage their own affairs to do exactly that.
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If that was truly the case then I would side with the Republicans.

That sounds both fair and Christian to my ears.
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that is the case. That’s what Republicans believe.
 
I disagree, though. Republicans don’t have a slew of mortal sins written out in their party platform, that I am aware of.
 
And it was never my contention that healthcare should be something just provided to everyone for arbitrary reasons.

What I mean by “basic health care for all” is that those who want or require healthcare are able to acquire that health care in a way that works with their means. In other words, everybody should have access to basic health care (which to me means ER visits, PCP visits, prescriptions, eyeglasses, etc. Plastic surgery, abortion, laser eye surgery, none of those are basic health care so they should not be covered by the Govt but rather obtained by personal money or private insurance).
 
ChristMyLife said:
What I AM arguing is that the needs of the poor in America far ourweigh the Church’s ability to help meet those needs - so the Church and those in the Church shouldn’t have any issue with the State helping make ends meet for the poor when the Church is overburdened and unable to do it.
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An argument totally unsubstantiated by facts, if anything, the federal government relies on Christian charities, they always come up in the migrant crisis and with refugees. I haven’t seen any government soup kitchens lately but I have little doubt they may give grants to some who do.

Totally unsubstantiated statement.
 
Wanting to stop “illegal” immigration and wanting people to not be endlessly on benefits that are ABLE to work, are not sins.
 
Too many people want to pay lip service to the pro-life cause.

They do not consider abortion in their vote while claiming to be pro-life.
The rallying cry is that no one can or will do anything about it.

The cry is such, but the truth is that they are just as pro-abortion as the planned parenthood crowd.
They just do not want to be reminded of it.
 
ChristMyLife said:
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Gingersnaps4:
democrats are more moral, the
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You weren’t addressing me but my contention isn’t that the Democrats are more moral.

Honestly, IMO, both of the parties support gravely immoral things in their official platforms.

Which makes it a tough decision for me to decide which sort of evil I want to be okay with.

It’s a seriously tough call to make.

My only point though was that whichever Party a Catholic chooses to vote for, they can be confident it’s no more sinful or immoral than if they had voted for the other party, since both parties contain official party platform teachings which stand in contradiction to Church teaching.
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abortion is not equal to just wages is not equal to slavery is not equal to affordable housing. Catholic moral teaching requires we weigh things differently…much like my bishop did. (By the way, I really would like you to tell me why the 2 bishops are wrong in their interpretation of Church teaching and you are right in your interpretation)
 
phil19034 said:
As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, abortion is MURDER. Besides euthanasia, no other existing political position reaches the level of evil of abortion and euthanasia.
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And the Church goes further.

The Church believes it is not enough to fight for their right to life, we must fight for their right to life after these babies are born…By means of health care, nutrition, and housing when and until they can be provided for in a dignified manner.

There is no greater advocate for life after birth than our Church. It amazes me over and over again how one can claim a Right to Life agenda without taking into the considerations necessary for that life when it is here. Never fails.
 
KMC said:
abortion is not equal to just wages is not equal to slavery is not equal to affordable housing.
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If I had candidate A who supports slavery, unjust wages, and homelessness, but opposes abortion, and candidate B who supports abortion but is against slavery, unjust wages, and homelessness…

That would be quite a tough decision to make, but I’d probably vote for candidate B who is against 3 crimes against humanity but supports 1.

To me, standing back and allowing 1 crime against humanity is less evil than standing back and allowing 3.

Both are disturbing.

But I do believe God would understand the person who makes either decision A or B… I do not believe God would judge the person who makes either call so long as he tried to do it in accord with his conscience and Church teaching as best he could.
 
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ChristMyLife said:
My life and my word should be enough to substantiate it.

Do you think I’m being deceptive?
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I’m still waiting for the answer as to whether one voted for Barak Obama, who voted against the Babies Born Alive Protection Act 3 separate times. I argue what is handed to me, not by picking and choosing. I mean, if one argues for compassion and said some negatives about the Republicans, then, we should be able to know where one is coming from .

And you have an opinion like anyone else. Your claims do not make you more authoritative nor expert than anyone else. I can say some things as well. Doesn’t mean my view is worth more.

Please save me emotional responses, I’ve audited non-for-profit, US and State government organizations. I’m not going to laud this as meaning I know more than others on this complex topic.
 
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ChristMyLife said:
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KMC:
abortion is not equal to just wages is not equal to slavery is not equal to affordable housing.
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If I had candidate A who supports slavery, unjust wages, and homelessness, but opposes abortion, and candidate B who supports abortion but is against slavery, unjust wages, and homelessness…

That would be quite a tough decision to make, but I’d probably vote for candidate B who is against 3 crimes against humanity but supports 1.

To me, standing back and allowing 1 crime against humanity is less evil than standing back and allowing 3.

Both are disturbing.

But I do believe God would understand the person who makes either decision A or B… I do not believe God would judge the person who makes either call so long as he tried to do it in accord with his conscience and Church teaching as best he could.
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you didn’t answer my question about why the 2 bishops are wrong in their interpretation of Church teaching and you are right in yours.
 
Not quite sure what point you are trying to make.

The Church does place responsibilities on governments to care for their citizens.

This applies to each nation in the world.

We, as Christians also have responsibilities to help those in need.
 
Victoria33 said:
You don’t have Catholic written on your profile and by the way, the Church has provided many martyrs through the aim of helping the poor, it feeds millions every day, it clothes many daily. I just don’t see how anyone could miss that fact to be expounding on the Gospel of St. Matthew.
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I don’t understand. I feel like I’m missing half the conversation here. Where did I once imply that Catholics / the Church DOESN’T care for the poor? I was always arguing from a Catholic perspective… we as Catholics must prioritize the poor in both our personal lives and when making political / voting decisions.

Regarding my profile…interesting… I’ve been on CAF since 2004. I guess my profile information didn’t carry over when they rolled out the new platform and I never bothered to check.
 
I agree, but I’m not sure how so many democrats have the idea that republicans are “anti” those things?? Is putting a time limit on benefits for able bodied people, anti-life? I think not. I live in a red state that has never been blue, and we do provide Medicaid for children of low income families, and WIC, and food stamps etc and I don’t think anyone but the most radical far right people would be for not providing those things. Stop believing the rhetoric. Democrat politicians tell us republicans “hate the poor” because it’s really all they have. It’s like saying we are racist for wanting to put the brakes on ILLEGAL immigration. Just more name calling, as usual.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Not quite sure what point you are trying to make.

The Church does place responsibilities on governments to care for their citizens.

This applies to each nation in the world.

We, as Christians also have responsibilities to help those in need.
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Thank you. As Christians we have a responsibility to help those in need. I noted that then, maybe we should priorities the poorest then, even though that is overseas in some cases. I guess, the compassionate answer is, “that’s ridiculous”.
 
DENNYINMI said:
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phil19034:
As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, abortion is MURDER. Besides euthanasia, no other existing political position reaches the level of evil of abortion and euthanasia.
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And the Church goes further.

The Church believes it is not enough to fight for their right to life, we must fight for their right to life after these babies are born…By means of health care, nutrition, and housing when and until they can be provided for in a dignified manner.

There is no greater advocate for life after birth than our Church. It amazes me over and over again how one can claim a Right to Life agenda without taking into the considerations necessary for that life when it is here. Never fails.
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Please point to one Catholic who is pro birth but doesn’t care after the child is born. I don’t know a single person. Frankly, I don’t know a single non-Catholic conservative who thinks that way either. (NOTE: I do know some right leaning libertarians who do though).

However, we can argue about how & who should pay for these services.

Most Catholic Republicans like me feel that when the burden falls upon the govt to pay, it should be by the city, county and state govts. Not the federal govt.

That’s the difference. We Republicans believe that the city, county & states can better manage such services, tailoring them to the needs of their respective jurisdictions. The blanket approach by the federal govt often fails and is extremely inefficient.

God bless.
 
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Christ never commanded us to stack-rank the needed before we help them.
 
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