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LilyM
Guest
Judging by previous statements from the poster who made that particular remark, I’m positive it was meant entirely as a joke, please don’t take it as being meant in any way seriously.
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mikebenson
Guest
To hell with this forum. All of you holier-than-thous are just going to live lonely, sad, pathetic lives because none of you will be able to handle the real world. I honestly believe that all you people have to do is sit on your computers and tell everybody what’s going to send them to hell. You are all taking out your own misery on me and others who share my beliefs. I’m a sinner, and there’s hope for me unless I drop dead walking out of confession. That’s the message you people are conveying. Go be miserable somewhere else other than a Christian forum. Because truth be told, I don’t really see Christianity in your actions. You can call me a hell-bound sinner because I watch TV and look at Megan Fox, but you can be assured that pointing out other people’s sins doesn’t get one step closer to heaven. Why don’t you people go read the Bible and stop being Pharisees if you want to come on here. Remember, Christ did not condemn sinners–only hypocrites. If you call somebody a sinner, then you are a hypocrite–ESPECIALLY when their actions aren’t sinful at all.
The bad news is that hell awaits those who have sinned.
The good news is that thorugh Christ we are redeemed.
You people are preaching the bad news.
The bad news is that hell awaits those who have sinned.
The good news is that thorugh Christ we are redeemed.
You people are preaching the bad news.
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Secret_Square
Guest
C.S. Lewis in “The Screwtape Letters” devoted an entire chapter to laughter, in the form of a letter from the demon Screwtape to his nephew Wormwood on the topic.
Screwtape states in this letter that there are four main things that make people laugh – joy, fun, jokes, and flippancy. Joy and fun, he says, are “disgusting,” incomprehensible to demons like himself, and of very little if any use in getting people to commit sin.
As for jokes, Screwtape says bawdy or salacious humor sometimes proves to be disappointing because people tell such jokes for two reasons: 1) because they are genuinely funny, and 2) because they provide a pretext for talking about sex. Screwtape tells Wormwood that if his “patient” (the person he is trying to tempt) is of the first type, then dirty jokes aren’t going to be of much use in tempting him to serious sin. To some people, Screwtape says, “no passion is as serious as lust,” and a dirty joke doesn’t arouse illicit passions or thoughts precisely because they are too busy laughing at it.
A more promising kind of humor, from Screwtape’s point of view, is the practical joke – which gives people an excuse to do things that would otherwise be considered cruel, humiliating, offensive, cowardly, or dishonest. He says a thousand dirty jokes don’t contribute to a person’s damnation as much as their realizing that they can get away with just about anything as long as they pass it off as a joke.
The “best” kind of humor in terms of leading people away from God, Screwtape says, is flippancy – a clownish attitude that treats everything as a potential joke, treats everyone with irreverence, and takes nothing seriously. This kind of humor, he says, is “a thousand miles away from real joy,” dulls rather than sharpens the intellect, and builds up “the finest armor plating I know against the Enemy (God).”
So based on what Lewis wrote here, I take it that humor and jokes are fine in moderation and even an occasional salacious or profane joke that is genuinely funny is not necessarily sinful. However, to get in the HABIT of constantly joking and wisecracking about serious matters is an occasion of sin and should be avoided. That, I think, is the real moral danger when it comes to watching comical TV shows (either sitcoms or standup/late night comics) on a regular basis… you have to be careful not to pick up their attitude of flippancy, which is IMHO more likely to be an occasion of sin than any four letter words they use.
Screwtape states in this letter that there are four main things that make people laugh – joy, fun, jokes, and flippancy. Joy and fun, he says, are “disgusting,” incomprehensible to demons like himself, and of very little if any use in getting people to commit sin.
As for jokes, Screwtape says bawdy or salacious humor sometimes proves to be disappointing because people tell such jokes for two reasons: 1) because they are genuinely funny, and 2) because they provide a pretext for talking about sex. Screwtape tells Wormwood that if his “patient” (the person he is trying to tempt) is of the first type, then dirty jokes aren’t going to be of much use in tempting him to serious sin. To some people, Screwtape says, “no passion is as serious as lust,” and a dirty joke doesn’t arouse illicit passions or thoughts precisely because they are too busy laughing at it.
A more promising kind of humor, from Screwtape’s point of view, is the practical joke – which gives people an excuse to do things that would otherwise be considered cruel, humiliating, offensive, cowardly, or dishonest. He says a thousand dirty jokes don’t contribute to a person’s damnation as much as their realizing that they can get away with just about anything as long as they pass it off as a joke.
The “best” kind of humor in terms of leading people away from God, Screwtape says, is flippancy – a clownish attitude that treats everything as a potential joke, treats everyone with irreverence, and takes nothing seriously. This kind of humor, he says, is “a thousand miles away from real joy,” dulls rather than sharpens the intellect, and builds up “the finest armor plating I know against the Enemy (God).”
So based on what Lewis wrote here, I take it that humor and jokes are fine in moderation and even an occasional salacious or profane joke that is genuinely funny is not necessarily sinful. However, to get in the HABIT of constantly joking and wisecracking about serious matters is an occasion of sin and should be avoided. That, I think, is the real moral danger when it comes to watching comical TV shows (either sitcoms or standup/late night comics) on a regular basis… you have to be careful not to pick up their attitude of flippancy, which is IMHO more likely to be an occasion of sin than any four letter words they use.
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Serap
Guest
Mike, I think your anger is much deeper than this thread. You are on CAF for a reason and that’s a good thing. Don’t give up and get defensive so easily. We all sin just as you do. You are searching for answers and perhaps you don’t like the answer.
You are not going to Hell and it’s a sin to claim someone is going to Hell. That person was just being an idiot and trying to be funny. There are some who like to cause trouble on this website.
I remember myself when I first came on CAF and I hadn’t gone to Confession for 12 years. I had all kinds of sin under my belt. When I read that things like contraception and masturbation were mortal sin, I too got angry with the holier-than-thou attitude from some of the posters and then I realized that my anger was me trying to protect my status quo. I didn’t want to make all kinds of difficult changes in my life.
As I moved closer to holiness, I began to yearn to be better and I changed my habits. I went to Confession and amended my life. I am still a sinner b/c I’m human and I’m weak, just like you and everyone else. I feel much closer to God now and much happier with my life and when I stumble, I go to Confession and work to become better.
It’s a very difficult thing to do and you will get angry and defensive in the beginning. Dark forces want you to be angry and against the Catholic church. There are forces working against you right now and it’s up to you to recognize it and strive for holiness.
I mean this with whole hearted love and compassion as your friend in Christ.
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theproducerjt
Guest
Seth McFarlane, atheist or not is a genius and an exceptionally multi- talented one. He’s created a show that is just plain funny and that’s all there is to it. Life is loaded with situations that demand serious moral choices. The ribald humor of TV shows surely is not one or any of them. Have a good laugh and forget about it. The theatre of the ridiculous is just that, ridiculous; ridiculous can be hysterically funny. Try just treating your neighbor with kindness and compassion. Invite him/her in; have a beer and watch whatever makes you laugh. Long live the memory of Mae West. What a hoot she was and she never took herself seriously; she laughed at those who did and made a bloody fortune in the process. Loosen up, people!
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napoli426
Guest
The fact that we’re debating this is a sign of this generation. I wonder how many of you T.V. watchers are spending an equal or comparable amount of time praying? Give me a break…this is why so much nonsense has entered the Church. I would suggest that anyone who needs that kind of entertainment is lukewarm in there faith. I can assure you the Saints did not spend hours doing frivolous things which were definitely occassion for sin. I would suggest if we’re really concerned about our immortal souls we should abandon this foolishness and live like Jesus wants us to live.
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napoli426
Guest
Oh…just a point we should understand…not everyone’s going to heaven…but, we should never say someone is going to hell…God decides that stuff.
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theproducerjt
Guest
The fact that we’re debating this is not a sign of corruption, neither of this generation or of generations past; it is rather a sign that everyone is using their God given intelligence to address a question that is far more complex than a simple catechism answer can speak to. We cannot depend on theologians for every valid response; on the last day we will be asked whether we fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the imprisoned or healed the wounds of the sick. I don’t recall anything in Matthew 25 that suggested we’d be sentenced to eternal punishment for having a laugh about genitalia or anything related to it. It was the sanctimonious hypocrites Christ had a problem with, not the average everyday person who just lived and laughed.
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Secret_Square
Guest
C.S. Lewis also wrote in “The Four Loves” that it is just as bad, and ultimately un-Christian, to take sex and bodily functions too seriously as to take them not seriously enough. We are not to worship or idolize the body or sex as pagans (both ancient and modern) do, nor should we treat them with contempt or shame as the Puritans did. To be 100 percent serious (or 100 percent frivolous) about sex at all times, he says, is to deny our humanity, and to fail to notice the incongruity or “disconnect” between our bodies and our souls that is a result of the Fall.
“It is not for nothing that every language and literature in the world is full of jokes about sex,” he wrote. “Many of them are dull or disgusting and most of them are old. But we must insist that they embody an attitude that in the long run is far less dangerous to the Christian life than a reverential gravity. We must not attempt to find an absolute in the flesh. Banish play and laughter from the bed of love, and you will let in a false goddess… even falser than the Aphrodite of the Greeks, for they, even while they worshipped her, knew that she was ‘laughter-loving’.”
Now it is true that Lewis wrote this in the late 1950s, before 24-hour cable TV and satellite radio and other forms of round-the-clock entertainment came along, and before they became as thoroughly morally corrupted as they are today. So I am not at all denying that watching too much salacious humor on TV CAN be an occasion of sin. (I myself no longer watch TV, because I find out everything I need to know on the internet, and can view anything I really want to see on YouTube, so why waste money on cable?)
However, I think Lewis’ main point is still well taken – there’s nothing sinful or evil about noticing the silliness or humor in our relationships and in our bodily functions once in a while.
“It is not for nothing that every language and literature in the world is full of jokes about sex,” he wrote. “Many of them are dull or disgusting and most of them are old. But we must insist that they embody an attitude that in the long run is far less dangerous to the Christian life than a reverential gravity. We must not attempt to find an absolute in the flesh. Banish play and laughter from the bed of love, and you will let in a false goddess… even falser than the Aphrodite of the Greeks, for they, even while they worshipped her, knew that she was ‘laughter-loving’.”
Now it is true that Lewis wrote this in the late 1950s, before 24-hour cable TV and satellite radio and other forms of round-the-clock entertainment came along, and before they became as thoroughly morally corrupted as they are today. So I am not at all denying that watching too much salacious humor on TV CAN be an occasion of sin. (I myself no longer watch TV, because I find out everything I need to know on the internet, and can view anything I really want to see on YouTube, so why waste money on cable?)
However, I think Lewis’ main point is still well taken – there’s nothing sinful or evil about noticing the silliness or humor in our relationships and in our bodily functions once in a while.
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swise
Guest
I think all these answers could be divided up between an older and a younger generation. Actually, it could probably better be divided up into one group that has had children for a few years and had the realization of what effect everything will have on their children and the world their children grow up in and another group that hasn’t had that experience and simply can’t understand it yet. I would bet that in at least 15 years time most of the second group will think a little more conservatively, too.
I mean no disrespect. That’s just my opinion : )
I mean no disrespect. That’s just my opinion : )
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napoli426
Guest
yep…I’m 41 with 4 kids…and I hear where your coming from. I think most of these people will come around soon enough. Most of my generation don’t even bother coming to Mass. Too busy watching T.V. I guess. lol.
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Earnest_Bunbury
Guest
The morality of the Church is not dependent on the attitudes of those it affects nor on the relative times that are to be reconciled to Jesus at the end of time.
If one can watch the “spirit of this age” on the media and not become effected by it, great. It can’t be seen where this “spirit” though, in a lack of reverence for God, is good for those who are impressionable and can lead them to be what is objectively known as Good as indicated in “Love of God and Love of neighbor”.
If one can watch the “spirit of this age” on the media and not become effected by it, great. It can’t be seen where this “spirit” though, in a lack of reverence for God, is good for those who are impressionable and can lead them to be what is objectively known as Good as indicated in “Love of God and Love of neighbor”.
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Portrait
Guest
Dear napoli426,
How much I concur with everything you have said. TV is time consumming and mind polluting and we as professing Christians need to re-evaluate just what are priorties are.
The present generation of Christians, Catholic and Protestant, do not seem to be as concerned with the pursuit of holiness as were former generations, especially the Puritans and devout Catholics and Protestants of the 19th. century. I fear that we are not shining as lights in this very dark world as we should.
However it is good that people like you and I can put these points on Forums such as this.
Soli Deo Gloria.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
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Sellaman
Guest
…and may the force be with you too!!!
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Preciosa_Rosita
Guest
Thank you for your encouragement.
I WILL keep investigating the Catholic faith, but as “a baby drinking milk” and new to this forum, I cannot be expected to know what is meant in jest and in seriousness.
Maybe it would be wise to check what we write, before we press the “send” button?
In my humble view judgementalism is equally as bad as the original theme of this topic.
Thank you all anyway for some very interesting and thought provoking arguments, both here and elsewhere.
God bless you all
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HereticAmI
Guest
“OK, I know it’s not a sin to physically watch a TV show, but my question would be if it is a sin to be entertained by a TV show that contains casual sexual jokes and some mild profanity. I’m not speaking of an HBO adult series or anything like that, but like sitcoms on prime-time TV like Two and a Half Men and the like. Would enjoying watching these shows be immoral because there are sexual references in it?”
How do you relate to the sexual references? Without knowing the answer to that question, hard to give you any advice. Now more to the point, some of the worst shows have nothing to do with sex and profanity. Some of the shows mentioned in this thread are far less objectionable on those grounds than on some other grounds.
Lastly, a two-parter from one of only two shows worth watching for a while there [with the other show being Buffy the Vampire Slayer], enjoy:
hulu.com/watch/23658/angel-five-by-five#x-0,vepisode,1
hulu.com/watch/23661/angel-sanctuary#x-0,vepisode,1
How do you relate to the sexual references? Without knowing the answer to that question, hard to give you any advice. Now more to the point, some of the worst shows have nothing to do with sex and profanity. Some of the shows mentioned in this thread are far less objectionable on those grounds than on some other grounds.
Lastly, a two-parter from one of only two shows worth watching for a while there [with the other show being Buffy the Vampire Slayer], enjoy:
hulu.com/watch/23658/angel-five-by-five#x-0,vepisode,1
hulu.com/watch/23661/angel-sanctuary#x-0,vepisode,1
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Lorrie
Guest
I watch a lot of TV… I also go to Mass every Sunday and attend Mass almost every weekday at noon, getting there 30 minutes early so I can pray in front of the Blessed Sacrament. I read the Bible every night and then I pray the Rosary before going to sleep, upon waking up I pray it again. I go to confession regularly. I also say grace before and after meals.
Not that it’s any of your business.
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Serap
Guest
People are getting very defensive on this thread. I have not seen a holier-than-thou attitude on this thread (other than the idiot who claimed someone was going to Hell
).Why are we so defensive? Everyone is unique and needs to be honest with themself. Why is this thread hitting a bone of contemption with some of you? Is there a deeper itching nagging feeling in your consciousness?
I’m not targeting you specifically Lorrie. I’m targeting some of the very defensive posts on this thread. My gut is telling me that much of the defensive attitude is coming from a deeper place in many of the posters on this thread.
We as humans have a tendency to become very defensive when we know that the other person may be right and that we do need to make some difficult changes in our lives; changes that we are perhaps not willing to make right now.
…and that’s ok…we are all unique and our journey to holiness can have many twists and turns that are difficult to endure in this highly sexual, violent and immoral world. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of good in this world too. There are many wonderful people in this world who are not necessarily Catholic - being a Catholic is not the be all end all.
IMO, any human being who is kind, compassionate to others, loving, generous, and is always listening to his inner consciousness, is a follower of Christ whether or not he even knows that Christ exists.
I know it’s a bit off topic…but my point is that we all need to do some soul searching and really listen to that higher power (God) within…we all have it and it’s always talking to us and guiding us as to what is right and wrong.
I see the defensive attitudes as a resistance to really soul search for this inner God (higher power), Jesus, or whatever you believe in.
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Lorrie
Guest
The post I quoted seriously rubbed me the wrong way. Just because I watch a lot of TV doesn’t mean that someone should have the audacity to question how much I pray, etc. The quote was severely judgmental and sad.
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
Actually, I think the phrasing “how many of you T.V. watchers are spending an equal or comparable amount of time praying” wasn’t singling out TV watchers, but instead TV watchers who *don’t *pray. You’re a TV watcher who prays.
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