It makes no sense to have a vow of poverty for a married couple with a child

[BobCatholic]

Eight years ago I discerned a vocation to marriage, got married and have a young autistic boy.

The past 12 years I have been underemployed. I worked in one primary IT field during most of that time and a secondary field for a year. The rest was on unemployment. I’d do consulting just to pay the bills and then be on unemployment when the contract is done.
The past 5 are getting particularly horrible with working only a year in a half during that time. (extended, too) During my times of unemployment, I go back to school. Got one degree and certification in an non-IT field. Nobody wants to hire me because I have no work experience in that area. They see my IT experience and reject me out of hand, despite a cover letter explaining that I am looking for a career change and explaining my new qualifications.

I also went back to school a second time, got a certificate in an in-demand management field, and a certification in that. Got a year’s experience in this new field. But employers are not looking for junior management in this area, always looking for 5-7 years experience, and they’ve got plenty of people in those fields.

Now I’m out of work again and just taking classes to take CE for both certifications, to maintain them.

I never took a vow of poverty when I got married, nor did I take one when my son was born. I ask God to help me find a job, and got no help.

So why does God enforce a vow of poverty on me? This does not make sense.

I worry that savings will run out and then I’ll be condemned under 1 Timothy 5:8.

 

[Cloisters]

Don’t worry about 1 Timothy. That applies to those with sloth issues.

The cross does sound crushing, but God has a plan for you. Sometimes reaching out like you’ve done here is what He wants you to do. The IT sounds like its what everyone is wanting, and could possibly be a way to your new career path.

As for your autistic son, you didnt mention how high-functioning he is, nor your location. Perhaps Catholic charities and Catholic Social Services could be resources for you, and possibly the local autism society chapter.

You didn’t ask for a vow of poverty when you got married, but the ingenuity that goes along with such a vow in the religious life can certainly be applied to thrift in marriage.

If you’re not on social Networking sites, I would recommend Linkedin. One guy my son knows got his engineering job through networking.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[BobCatholic]

Don’t worry about 1 Timothy. That applies to those with sloth issues.

And those who cannot provide, like I will be when the savings run out.

The IT sounds like its what everyone is wanting, and could possibly be a way to your new career path.

IT is dead, that’s why I’m looking for non-IT roles if possible.

As for your autistic son, you didnt mention how high-functioning he is, nor your location. Perhaps Catholic charities and Catholic Social Services could be resources for you, and possibly the local autism society chapter.

He’s high functioning. He loves mommy but hardly knows I’m alive.

You didn’t ask for a vow of poverty when you got married, but the ingenuity that goes along with such a vow in the religious life can certainly be applied to thrift in marriage.

And we live thrifty.

If you’re not on social Networking sites, I would recommend Linkedin. One guy my son knows got his engineering job through networking.

I’m on linkedin, and get nibbles, but never any job offers. I also am on 20+ job sites.

 

[St_Francis]

1 St Timothy 5:8: But if any man have not care of his own and especially of those of his house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

This is still related to sloth. It’s not as if you are choosing to let your family live without resources. What this verse is referring to is more like a dead-beat parent than a parent trying desperately to work.

The situation you are in is a very difficult one in our society, but you seem to have handled it well by using your periods of unemployment wisely. At the same time, it does seem as tho God has provided, albeit minimally, for your family.

Difficult as it is, we are supposed to praise and thank God in good times *and bad. *See what good you can find in the bad times–have you thus been more available to your family? Have things worked out at the last minute? Are you able to attend daily Mass more often? These things can make it easier to praise and thank him in difficult times.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Eight years ago I discerned a vocation to marriage, got married and have a young autistic boy.

The past 12 years I have been underemployed. I worked in one primary IT field during most of that time and a secondary field for a year. The rest was on unemployment. I’d do consulting just to pay the bills and then be on unemployment when the contract is done.
The past 5 are getting particularly horrible with working only a year in a half during that time. (extended, too) During my times of unemployment, I go back to school. Got one degree and certification in an non-IT field. Nobody wants to hire me because I have no work experience in that area. They see my IT experience and reject me out of hand, despite a cover letter explaining that I am looking for a career change and explaining my new qualifications.

I also went back to school a second time, got a certificate in an in-demand management field, and a certification in that. Got a year’s experience in this new field. But employers are not looking for junior management in this area, always looking for 5-7 years experience, and they’ve got plenty of people in those fields.

Now I’m out of work again and just taking classes to take CE for both certifications, to maintain them.

I never took a vow of poverty when I got married, nor did I take one when my son was born. I ask God to help me find a job, and got no help.

So why does God enforce a vow of poverty on me? This does not make sense.

I worry that savings will run out and then I’ll be condemned under 1 Timothy 5:8.

Don’t feel so down on yourself, it isn’t your fault. And you have plenty of company, I know lots of folks in your boat. Take any kind of job you can get at this point, stocking shelves, McDonalds, waiting tables, washing cars at the car wash, anything. At least that will keep you busy and from thinking about yourself so much. And what’s with all this school stuff, you are just running up debt. How about North Dakota, booming up there, I bet they can use some IT people. Even day labor is making money up there, good money - but brother when it gets to 40 below its so cold you can’t hardly believe it.

Linus2nd.

Linus2nd

 

[Origen52]

I can’t explain why you’re going through these problems, except that when you consider that our founder died so poor he had to entrust the care of his mother to one of his apostles, it might help you find perspective. We live in a fallen world and are subject to many ills; physical, emotional, financial. Christ came to experience the human condition and teach us how to trust in God through all situations. When I was diagnosed with cancer last year, I was frightened and devastated. A close friend, a baptist minister, told me God had not given me cancer, cancer is one of the many consequences of life. What God could do, if I allowed him to, was to use the cancer to draw me to him. The choice was mine. I could either curse fate and live in fear, or I could reach out to God. The cancer was a reality no matter what I chose.

I chose to return to the church fully, and seek comfort in the arms of our Virgin Mother. Twelve months later, I have achieved a complete remission, which I pray will continue. I have also achieved a deeper union with God and the church than I have ever had. When I was first diagnosed, I would have happily traded places with you. I know that provides you with little comfort, but hopefully your troubles will send you closer to God. I can’t tell you everything will be fine, but I can tell you everything is easier with God.

 

[BobCatholic]

This is still related to sloth. It’s not as if you are choosing to let your family live without resources. What this verse is referring to is more like a dead-beat parent than a parent trying desperately to work.

Unfortunately, I don’t see that. It says about not taking care of family. Doesn’t seem to make exceptions.

At the same time, it does seem as tho God has provided, albeit minimally, for your family.

Until unemployment and savings run out, then I’m doomed.

Difficult as it is, we are supposed to praise and thank God in good times *and bad. *See what good you can find in the bad times–have you thus been more available to your family? Have things worked out at the last minute? Are you able to attend daily Mass more often? These things can make it easier to praise and thank him in difficult times.

I cannot praise God in bad times, the cross is hard and he requires it. I thank God in good times because he has provided. I don’t attend daily mass, there are no later in the day masses.

Don’t feel so down on yourself, it isn’t your fault. And you have plenty of company, I know lots of folks in your boat. Take any kind of job you can get at this point, stocking shelves, McDonalds, waiting tables, washing cars at the car wash, anything. At least that will keep you busy and from thinking about yourself so much. And what’s with all this school stuff, you are just running up debt. How about North Dakota, booming up there, I bet they can use some IT people. Even day labor is making money up there, good money - but brother when it gets to 40 below its so cold you can’t hardly believe it.

Right now unemployment pays more than minimum wage, and if I get a minimum wage job, can’t afford to pay rent. North Dakota boomtown is overrun with tons of crime and not enough police, sure I can make nice money, but my family will be in danger.

I am sure you have considered this, because all of us know there are those worse off and sometimes it helps to focus on that,

I don’t take comfort or pleasure in knowing other people are suffering worse than me. I am not a sadist.

Jesus is most concerned for your soul…not your savings account.

Correct. Christ only cares about the spiritual, not the temporal, that’s why I’m on my own with no hope.

I know you don’t want this cross and that is perfectly normal because Jesus didn’t want his cross either.

Can’t compare the two crosses.
Christ willingly chose his cross. I didn’t
Christ was more than able to carry his cross. I’m not.

You were born to know, love and serve God in this life and to live with Him forever in the next.

I believe God is pushing me away from himself. He doesn’t want me.

I know it is not easy, especially as a husband and father there is so much pressure. Do all you can to surrender to His will, turn to Him in prayer, open your heart to hear His voice. I will pray for you. God bless.

I thought I did surrender to his will when I got married. Maybe this is God’s way of saying I should not have been married and that he wanted me to be in a religious order instead?

 

[dixieagle]

I am sorry for your difficulties. First, it sounds to me as if you are suffering from depression. Second, you clearly misunderstand 1 Timothy; do you really think the the Lord condemns those who work hard and try to provide for their families but, due to economic conditions, don’t succeed in the way they would like to? The Lord loves the poor.

Now, you talk about your training and experience in the field of IT. Actually, it sounds as if that is a growing field. Here is a link to an article you might find interesting:

nwitimes.com/business/jobs-and-employment/national-job-outlook-focuses-on-information-technology-health-care-engineering/article_b709138e-e777-5ef2-8613-bdb9e90ead3f.html

Get your possible depression treated so that you are in a better position to see clearly the path you must take. If you need to “tweak” your skills, do what it takes. You are already ahead of the game, with your education and training in both IT and management. You may have to move to an area where IT jobs are plentiful, but it sounds as if you are actually better poised than many folks. Don’t give up. I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[Lamentation]

IT is not dead, the trick is finding it in non-traditional places.

Casinos, Corrections, and Healthcare are all areas I’ve noticed are on the rise for IT positions.

Avoid corporate business like the plague though…

 

[WiccanWoman]

O/P, I see you are in the IT field, and are not afraid of hard work and gaining skills through education.

My spouse has worked with computers all his life (and all the internet’s life, too - he will be 61 this December, and he’s been in the field since the actual beginning) and the best thing he ever did (besides us getting married ) was to apply for employment at the company for which he works now. The main office is located in the US but they are world-wide, well-known and growing, with amazing benefits. They always have openings of different sorts, and are willing to offer training to the right people. I don’t know if it’s OK for me to put a link in here for their corporate website, some articles about them, etc., so I’ll omit it, but if the O/P - or anyone else for that matter - would care to have more information, please contact me. (If a MOD says it’s OK to add the info here, I will do so.)
His employment with this firm has allowed us to move from dream to reality regarding a secure retirement future.

O/P. you can do no more than your best, and in your heart of hearts, you are trying your best, right? It seems to me through analyzing several of your posts that you are thoroughly frustrated and being quite critical of yourself by saying your best is not “good enough” for reasons that are out of your control (no job openings, rising expenses, etc.). I agree with a prior poster who offered the opinion that your stressors might have caused clinical depression. For that, even without medical insurance, you might try locating a local clinic for diagnosis and care.

I doubt your wife is being a harsh, critical nag, as you’ve said she loves you, and your son loves you but loves her “more” than you – this love in itself is a blessing, but you might be feeling “jealous” about their relationship which causes you anger or pain, which then snowballs, and you criticize yourself for not doing better, etc. That’s a sign of depression, too.

I wish you and your family blessings of prosperity, good health and peace. May twice as many windows open for you as the doors that have shut.

 

[BobCatholic]

First, it sounds to me as if you are suffering from depression.

Not depressed. Just sad that I can’t find a job. I had myself checked out by 2 psyches and they ruled out depression. This was a recent diagnosis.

Second, you clearly misunderstand 1 Timothy; do you really think the the Lord condemns those who work hard and try to provide for their families but, due to economic conditions, don’t succeed in the way they would like to? The Lord loves the poor.

I’d say yes. He holds us temporally responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve. He expects me to have a vow of poverty.

Now, you talk about your training and experience in the field of IT. Actually, it sounds as if that is a growing field. Here is a link to an article you might find interesting:

Not really. Manual software testers are not wanted by companies.

You may have to move to an area where IT jobs are plentiful

Where is that? I’m in Illinois. I’m not moving to Silicon Valley, rents there are 2k a month and that is for garbage apartments. No thanks.

 

[BobCatholic]

IT is not dead, the trick is finding it in non-traditional places.

manual software testing is dead.

the two other fields I am qualified for, one I have no work experience, and the second I have limited experience. For both they always ask for more experience in the job ads, so I’m rejected.

 

[BobCatholic]

I doubt your wife is being a harsh, critical nag, as you’ve said she loves you, and your son loves you but loves her “more” than you – this love in itself is a blessing, but you might be feeling “jealous” about their relationship which causes you anger or pain,

Naah, my son has a heartbreaking condition. I grew up being everyone’s favorite uncle. You know, the one who the kids want to see because he’s so much fun to play with. I got along great with kids and loved playing with them. After my son’s diagnosis of autism, I may never have that again. Doesn’t matter how much I try to play with him and be a fun dad. I take him to fun places (water parks, pools, parks, etc.) and I still can’t get him to connect with me.

When I married I wanted to have 10 kids, because I get along great with kids. Thanks to infertility, that door is closed. Fine, thy will be done Lord, I say with tears in my eyes.

My won was born with autism and cannot connect with me. Fine, thy will be done Lord, I say with tears in my eyes.

These two crosses are painful. But number 3 is too hard.

I am thankful for a wonderful wife and sweet little boy. I am thankful for so many things. But three things are painful. The underemployment is the worst. That one I cannot handle.

Is God saying “no job for you, and I don’t want to help.” I can’t say " Fine, thy will be done Lord" for this, this does not make sense. This can’t be right. But I have no other message.

That’s a sign of depression, too.

Please don’t judge me harshly, I had my self checked out. This is not an issue. Just because I’m sad does not mean I have a mental disease.

 

[Cariethra]

We are in the same boat. Only in my husband’s case it is lifeguarding and running a pool. He’s about as pessimistic too.

It is a pain to find any employment anywhere. But, it might be worth looking further away. Look as far at across the country if need be. Moving is expensive, but if you can find a job, moving is worth it.

You are not alone in this. It might be worth finding those who are in a similar situation and talk with them about how they are handling it.

I can understand how you feel about your son. I found a contract job last year. During those 7 months my daughter started ignoring me and demanded daddy for everything. My son, stopped calling me Mommy. It was awful. I can only imagine that it is even worse for you, because you are actually home to see the difference. The best I can offer is to speak with your son’s occupational therapist about ideas for the two of you to connect.

Try to keep strong. I know it is hard, but at times like this you have to be stubborn and have not only a “can do” attitude, but also tell yourself “I will do”.

 

[WiccanWoman]

Not depressed. Just sad that I can’t find a job. I had myself checked out by 2 psyches and they ruled out depression. This was a recent diagnosis.

Having taken the time to read other of your posts, and having had much experience in the issue, if you have been given a recent diagnosis of “not depression, only sadness” by doctors/psychiatrists, then I call baloney on the doctor(s) who performed the analysis and then just threw-up their hands and walked away. (Or was it you who walked away, thinking that the mental health avenue was then closed to you?) So maybe it’s not depression… OK, fine… but it sure in Hades is something else… and not just sadness, I’d stake my life on it. It took quite a few years of my digging on behalf of a Sister of my Heart, with me pulling her kicking and screaming from doctor to doctor, clinic to clinic, hospital to hospital, and it was found she actually has BPD. I am not saying you do, but I cannot and do not believe by seeing the depth and length of this utter and pure despair in which you suffer that you are completely healthy.

Not really. Manual software testers are not wanted by companies.

Did you want that information I offered earlier, about the business for which my husband works?

Where is that? I’m in Illinois. I’m not moving to Silicon Valley, rents there are 2k a month and that is for garbage apartments. No thanks.

Illinois?! Oh my, I have friends/family there. Please tell me what town. Perhaps a connection may be made.

Naah, my son has a heartbreaking condition. . . . my son’s diagnosis of autism. . . . Doesn’t matter how much I try to play with him and be a fun dad. I take him to fun places (water parks, pools, parks, etc.) and I still can’t get him to connect with me. . . I am thankful for a wonderful wife and sweet little boy. I am thankful for so many things. But three things are painful. The underemployment is the worst. That one I cannot handle. . . .

Please don’t judge me harshly, I had my self checked out. This is not an issue. Just because I’m sad does not mean I have a mental disease.

I do understand about your son’s condition. There are those very close to me with the same diagnosis, on many levels on the spectrum. I get it, 100%.

Bob, I judge no-one. (In fact, last week I did a post on my blog about the topic of “judging” – and I am still trying to figure out what the term actually means. If you’d like to read it, please let me know as I’d like your (name removed by moderator)ut.) Anyway, although you did have yourself checked-out, I am certain that something is missing, somewhere. You use the term “mental disease” as if it’s ugly. It’s not. It’s a bodily condition, the same as diabetes, or leukemia, or arthritis, or MS, or CP, or COPD, etc. It’s a medical “disorder” which negatively impacts a part of the body, i.e., the brain. If you were to be given a diagnosis, you might then be put on a path to healing. Having a diagnosis doesn’t mean you should be critical of yourself, thinking to be shunned (as in the olden days). The “stigma” of mental health issues has diminished due to many answers found by professionals in the field. A diagnosis = an answer, a light comes on and you finally can see the potential in front of you.

If it were me - and yes, I know it is not me, and I am not living your life with your frustrations and trials - but if it were, I’d much rather be told I have a treatable mental - or physical - disorder [of the brain] even if it were terminal, than to continue believing of my own accord that God hates me, or has abandoned me.

There are other weird physical conditions, too… things you might not even think about which could be impacting you. My own boss recently entered a period of deep despair, which is very unlike him… also were sleep disorders, anger outbursts, anhedonia, loss of appetite (very bad - see below*). I encouraged him to get a full physical, and he finally did so including blood tests. Of all things, it was found he had Lyme disease, and fatally low sodium/electrolyte levels! His doctor called him at home at 9 PM and told him to immediately stop taking the depression medication he had prescribed, as it was not going to help. He instructed my boss to go to the kitchen, get a 16 ounce glass of water, pour the full contents of a salt shaker into it, mix it up and drink it down immediately. He is now taking salt pills, and has his blood checked weekly. He has gained about 15 pounds of water weight, which pleased the doctor. His moodiness has improved.

(*I had written a post here about him a long while ago, as I was worried for him. He had a surgical intervention for morbid obesity which is called the Duodenal Bypass, and must ingest an enormous amount of food to live, but apparently now his body is not absorbing enough minerals/vitamins. He also eats just for the fun of it, not because he feels hunger - and I wondered if this was gluttony. The responses I received were mostly critical of me for asking, saying [basically] that maybe I should mind my own business.)

He could have died from this issue, and I am so glad he did not. He is still suffering from the impact, but he - like you - is not diagnosed as having “depression.”

 

[BobCatholic]

I cannot and do not believe by seeing the depth and length of this utter and pure despair in which you suffer that you are completely healthy.

Despair is the only logical thing to do about the secular economy. When secular companies and people turn away from God, bad things happen.

Did you want that information I offered earlier, about the business for which my husband works?

PM me the company. I’ll take a look at it. I hope they have openings in my area.

Illinois?! Oh my, I have friends/family there. Please tell me what town. Perhaps a connection may be made.

I’m north and west of Rosemont.

You use the term “mental disease” as if it’s ugly.

It is ugly. Employers reject people who have them.
At the time I had insurance and had myself checked out thoroughly, to eliminate that as a possibility. This was a few months of thorough work done, with two different doctors just to make sure. I wanted to make sure this was not an issue with employers.

We are in the same boat. Only in my husband’s case it is lifeguarding and running a pool. He’s about as pessimistic too.

It is a pain to find any employment anywhere. But, it might be worth looking further away. Look as far at across the country if need be. Moving is expensive, but if you can find a job, moving is worth it.

I’m willing to move if there is a decent job there. I am applying for federal government jobs near DC and hope I can get them anywhere.

 

[Lamentation]

manual software testing is dead.

the two other fields I am qualified for, one I have no work experience, and the second I have limited experience. For both they always ask for more experience in the job ads, so I’m rejected.

I know that feeling on the work experience… At least with IT, you need at least 3-5 years experience at whatever language or system the company wants to use, and of course you wouldn’t actually be able to have that unless you jumped on the bandwagon as soon as it started getting even remotely hot. Then your experience doesn’t mean anything because you’ve put in so many years to the company using that software that the platform is no longer relevant and you’re back in the same position.

But I digress…

---

As to the manual testing, we still use it extensively when creating inmate kiosks. God knows if we could automate the process of trying to break a kiosk being used by someone with a lot of free time on their hands in a high-security environment, we would though. It’s amazing some of the things inmates do.

 

[mikekle]

I recently heard an interview where they were discussing poverty in the world and (this may help to put things into perspective for you). it really made me think…

I would put a link to this site, but cannot recall the sites name, but the jist of it, was, poverty in the US is considered lap of luxury to many other people.

97% of people living in poverty in the US have refrigerators, stoves to cook on, heat and central air conditioning, a TV with some kind of ‘paid programming/ cable tv’, microwave ovens.

92% of people living in poverty in the US have at least 1 computer with internet access in the home.

95% have cell phones AND a house land line.

There was many more, but these are the ones I remember, but I think they did a great job of showing that people in the US do not really know what true poverty is, most people in the world would kill to live in our version of ‘poverty’.

 

[bsroufek]

I actually worked IT for 20+ years and agree with you that it has mostly died off,
compared with recent history anyway.

I suggest that you write focused resumes that don’t mention irrelevant fields and experience. Like, if you’re applying for a chef’s job, you shouldn’t put your IT experience–or even mention it–on your resume: it will just kill your chances in many cases. Why management has this prejudice is beyond me, and it’s worse with IT in particular, mostly because of the money and (supposed) ease of leaving the new job to get back into IT.

All God demands of us is to do our best, even if that is “unsuccessful”. As Mother Teresa said, “God does not call us to be successful. Only faithful.” [close as I remember] I often had cyclic trouble paying bills between contracts myself in IT,so you’re right in looking for another field to get into.

Management is probably a good type of job to get into.

God Bless!

 

[BobCatholic]

There was many more, but these are the ones I remember, but I think they did a great job of showing that people in the US do not really know what true poverty is, most people in the world would kill to live in our version of ‘poverty’.

First, I do not take pleasure or comfort that other people are suffering. I am not a sadist.

Second, poverty is horrible, regardless where it is. I don’t have the luxury of finding out how horrible it can get. As soon as our savings runs out, we will be homeless and on the street. Would you be satisfied then?

I suggest that you write focused resumes that don’t mention irrelevant fields and experience. Like, if you’re applying for a chef’s job, you shouldn’t put your IT experience–or even mention it–on your resume: it will just kill your chances in many cases. Why management has this prejudice is beyond me, and it’s worse with IT in particular, mostly because of the money and (supposed) ease of leaving the new job to get back into IT.

If I’m getting a chef’s job, I’ll create a special resume that has close to no education, and none of my experience. Associate’s degree plus a bunch of “temporary worker” jobs.
Then again I’m a lousy chef, so unless someone trains me

It is a good idea, I’m going to take a look at rewriting two new resumes for two other fields.